[Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

"And if I die I'll see you in Manifest before I go."
The Book-House: Find the Ghostwalk book.

Moderator: Big Mac

[Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby Big Mac » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:36 pm

I've just seen an artifact, called Starfire on page 73 of the Ghostwalk campaign option book. It was forged from adamantine taken from a burning meteorite that struck deep in the heart of the forest of Sura-Khiri. (I think I've seen references to adamantine being created by meteorites in other D&D books.)

Has anyone seen any other references to what is in the sky *cough* Wildspace *cough* around the world that Manifest is on?

I see a reference to the Chant of Memory being celebrated on the longest day of the year on page 80, so that suggests that the world of Manifest may have a similar sort of axil-tilt to our own world, with Manifest's world having the same sort of four seasons that we have.

The section on Eanius, on pages 82-83, mentions the spring equinox, planetary conjunctions and eclipses. That implies a moon exists, and that it is a similar size to the world's sun.

The description of Orcus (page 85) mentions that clerics treat the nights of new moons (and the last day of the year) as holy days, so I'm thinking that the moon would need to have at least a few orbits around the world every year (even if it doesn't orbit the world once per month).

Has anyone seen any other references of what might be going on in "Manifestspace"?
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 21324
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: [Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby ripvanwormer » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:12 am

Big Mac wrote:(I think I've seen references to adamantine being created by meteorites in other D&D books.)


3.5 DMG, page 283. "Found only in meteorites and the rarest of veins in magical areas..."

When the Sky Falls by Bruce Cordell, page 8: "Many strange properties are attributed to meteorite ores. For instance, adamantine may be found in some rare meteors, but only in small quantities (about 1,000 gp worth of adamantine may be found in a standard meteoric strike)."

Volo's Guide to All Things Magical: "Adamant is rarely found in nature, but when it is, it is always be in large spherical pockets in hardened volcanic flows."
ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 2956
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: [Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby Big Mac » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:23 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:
Big Mac wrote:(I think I've seen references to adamantine being created by meteorites in other D&D books.)


3.5 DMG, page 283. "Found only in meteorites and the rarest of veins in magical areas..."

When the Sky Falls by Bruce Cordell, page 8: "Many strange properties are attributed to meteorite ores. For instance, adamantine may be found in some rare meteors, but only in small quantities (about 1,000 gp worth of adamantine may be found in a standard meteoric strike)."

Volo's Guide to All Things Magical: "Adamant is rarely found in nature, but when it is, it is always be in large spherical pockets in hardened volcanic flows."


Thanks Rip. :D

I wonder if adamantine exists in rocks in space, or if the heat of a meteorite buring up in the atmosphere of a planet converts ordinary space metal into adamantine.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 21324
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: [Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby Angel Tarragon » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:15 am

Big Mac wrote:That implies a moon exists, and that it is a similar size to the world's sun.
:o That's a big freaking moon! :o
User avatar
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
 
Posts: 8012
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:39 am
Location: Castrovel

Re: [Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby Big Mac » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:20 pm

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Big Mac wrote:That implies a moon exists, and that it is a similar size to the world's sun.
:o That's a big freaking moon! :o


I was referring to the relative size of both celestial bodies, rather than the absolute size.

That also tells us that Manifest's moon is closer to the world than it's sun.

I'm not sure it tells us much more than that. But I'd be inclined to assume that Manifest's world orbit's it's sun.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 21324
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: [Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby ghendar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:45 pm

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Big Mac wrote:That implies a moon exists, and that it is a similar size to the world's sun.
:o That's a big freaking moon! :o


Image
Fifth registered member, bitches!

If the Unapproachable East was so unapproachable, how did anyone get there?
User avatar
ghendar
Hill Giant
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:11 pm
Location: Acererak's Rumpus Room

Re: [Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby ripvanwormer » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:10 pm

What if the Ghostwalk planet was flat, and the other side was where the True Afterlife was? And the sun and moon were literally the same size (type A) and they moved between the mortal world and the realm of the dead every day?

An alternative: the True Afterlife isn't literally the other side of the world, but it parallels (is coeexistant with) the other side of the (flat) world on another plane of existence and the sun and moon shift between the Material Plane and the other one.
ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 2956
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: [Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby ripvanwormer » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:15 pm

Big Mac wrote:
ripvanwormer wrote:
Big Mac wrote:(I think I've seen references to adamantine being created by meteorites in other D&D books.)


3.5 DMG, page 283. "Found only in meteorites and the rarest of veins in magical areas..."

When the Sky Falls by Bruce Cordell, page 8: "Many strange properties are attributed to meteorite ores. For instance, adamantine may be found in some rare meteors, but only in small quantities (about 1,000 gp worth of adamantine may be found in a standard meteoric strike)."

Volo's Guide to All Things Magical: "Adamant is rarely found in nature, but when it is, it is always be in large spherical pockets in hardened volcanic flows."


Thanks Rip. :D

I wonder if adamantine exists in rocks in space, or if the heat of a meteorite buring up in the atmosphere of a planet converts ordinary space metal into adamantine.


Volo's Guide to All Things Magical defines the terms this way:

Adamantite
: A jet-black, ferromagnetic ore.
Adamant: A gleaming, glossy black metal smelted from adamantite ore, hard but brittle. Any reflections seen in the surface appear to have rainbow edges.
Adamantine: An alloy produced from five-eighths adamant, one-eighth electrum, and two-eighths silver. Black, but shines green in candlelight and white-violet under magical radiance.

If adamantite (the ore form of adamant) can be found in "the rarest of magical veins" and/or "hardened volcanic flows" on Oerth/Toril, it stands to reason this can happen on smaller worlds as well, including asteroids.

Volo's Guide to All Things Magical adds a wrinkle: through a combination of arcane magic, divine magic, alchemy, and smithcraft (and possibly other arts), adamantine (the alloy) can be derived from a combination of steel and mithral. Which... feels like something that was just added in order to explain some dubious previous canon. If the only way to turn mithral into adamantine is via miraculous arcane transmutation, there's no real connection between the two metals, any more than the fact that you can use magic to turn lead into gold would imply anything other than that magic can do pretty much anything you want it to.

However, why is adamantite associated with volcanism? Could it be that the geological processes of volcanoes and the heat of reentry both approximate the alchemical/arcane/divine processes that transmute mithral into adamant?

Or, alternatively, maybe adamant is a substance native to the mantles of planets, and it's occasionally belched up with magma, and is sometimes found in asteroids that are smashed up pieces of ancient planets that once had mantles. But if that's the case, why does it form spherical pockets? Consider this instead: that adamant is the core of worlds, the foundation that spherical planets build themselves around, and the spherical deposits miners discover are the seeds of future worlds, planetary offspring that might one day, if left alone, become worlds in their own right.
ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 2956
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: [Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby willpell » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:05 am

The larger a setting is, the less sense the idea of all dead souls going to a single area makes. If wanting to combine Ghostwalk with Spelljammer, I would suggest using something like a black hole that's drawing souls toward a single planet suspended on its event horizon, and say that the Underworld Wind is a gravitational force drawing all life toward this singularity. Is the True Afterlife really on the other side?
User avatar
willpell
White Dragon
 
Posts: 2595
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:10 pm

Re: [Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby ripvanwormer » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 am

Or a series of dead planets, 100% inhabited by undead, each of which has been consumed by Orcus, one after another, with only Manifest's world remaining.
ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 2956
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: [Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby Big Mac » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:25 am

ghendar wrote:
Angel Tarragon wrote:
Big Mac wrote:That implies a moon exists, and that it is a similar size to the world's sun.
:o That's a big freaking moon! :o


Image


If you are going to do it, do it right: :P
Image
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 21324
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: [Manifestspace] What connects Ghostwalk to space?

Postby Big Mac » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:37 am

ripvanwormer wrote:What if the Ghostwalk planet was flat, and the other side was where the True Afterlife was? And the sun and moon were literally the same size (type A) and they moved between the mortal world and the realm of the dead every day?


That's an interesting way to go.

I guess...if you were going to go down that route, that it would probably make sense to put Manifest in the centre of the world, and make the Gate of Souls a hole that allows souls to flow downward from the top-side to the underside.

The only thing I would say is that - if someone tried to run a Ghostwalk crystal sphere (Manifestspace) with this setup, they could presumably travel to the True Afterlife and back.

Plus you would need an alternative method to make the seasons work. I guess the Sun would need to have a variable orbit (a circle on a circle) that pushes it closer and further away from the topside of the flatworld. (The underside would naturally get the reverse seasons, that way.)

ripvanwormer wrote:An alternative: the True Afterlife isn't literally the other side of the world, but it parallels (is coeexistant with) the other side of the (flat) world on another plane of existence and the sun and moon shift between the Material Plane and the other one.


Well this works a bit better (from a Spelljammer point of view) but if you are going to have an underside, I would have thought that would need to have sunlight too.

I suppose that the main advantage with the flat earth theory is that it does not require the invention of a bunch of celestial bodies that Sean K Reynolds and Monty Cook didn't create. It would mean that there was less going on in Wildspace, but that would also tie-in better with a Spelljammer campaign, where ships have to fly to the world and travel to Manifest to "get their dead crew brought back".
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 21324
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK


Return to Ghostwalk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest