[Council of Wyrms] Boxed set vs hardback reprint

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ripvanwormer
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[Council of Wyrms] Boxed set vs hardback reprint

Post by ripvanwormer » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:48 pm

MODERATOR NOTE (by Big Mac): Split from a new thread called: [Council of Wyrms] What "connectivity" does CoW have?.

My friendly local games store has a copy of the Council of Wyrms hardcover. I paged through it the other day, and it seemed word for word the same, but without the big colorful maps and cards that made the original so great.
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Re: [Council of Wyrms] Boxed set vs hardback reprint

Post by Big Mac » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:16 am

ripvanwormer wrote:My friendly local games store has a copy of the Council of Wyrms hardcover. I paged through it the other day, and it seemed word for word the same, but without the big colorful maps and cards that made the original so great.
That makes me wonder what these updated and expanded bits were that Knightfall kindly pointed us to. I've seen RPG product misrepresented before, but I can't imagine TSR putting out that blurb if there was not some degree of truth to it. :?

Given what I've observed of other TSR products, I'd expect them to:
  • Play down (or fail to mention) the missing bits like cards,
  • But upsell any bits that have new content (even if it is content pulled in from a Dungeon magazine article).
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Re: [Council of Wyrms] Boxed set vs hardback reprint

Post by ripvanwormer » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:37 am

Big Mac wrote:That makes me wonder what these updated and expanded bits were that Knightfall kindly pointed us to. I've seen RPG product misrepresented before, but I can't imagine TSR putting out that blurb if there was not some degree of truth to it. :?
Yeah, I'm not sure; I didn't have the boxed set with me to compare. I'm sure they changed something.

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Re: [Council of Wyrms] Boxed set vs hardback reprint

Post by Big Mac » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:27 am

ripvanwormer wrote:
Big Mac wrote:That makes me wonder what these updated and expanded bits were that Knightfall kindly pointed us to. I've seen RPG product misrepresented before, but I can't imagine TSR putting out that blurb if there was not some degree of truth to it. :?
Yeah, I'm not sure; I didn't have the boxed set with me to compare. I'm sure they changed something.
Bill Slavicsek wrote both of them, so I guess he would have used the book to fix any bugs that got found after the boxed set came out.
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Re: [Council of Wyrms] Boxed set vs hardback reprint

Post by NPCDave » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:12 am

I have both and I did go through them to check and see what changes there were...

Having trouble remembering, but I believe the hardback had all the text of the original box set, plus some additional updates which might have been in Dragon Magazine, maybe the half-dragon stuff? I think the additional update is at the end of the hardback.

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Re: [Council of Wyrms] Boxed set vs hardback reprint

Post by NPCDave » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:18 am

Actually I think the hardback does have everything including the handouts.

The map of Io's Blood Island Chain is on page 194-195...it isn't in color but it is there. The color artwork depicting the different sample dragons is all in the back on final pages, and in color. And the new material is located starting on page 172...in the appendix, it mentions these are expanded rules. It details the dragon slayer kit, the slayer mage kit, and the dragon sage kit. Also includes a monster manual entry for the undead dragon slayer(first appeared in Dungeon #48 magazine adventure that featured the only Council of Wyrms adventure) and a random spell generator for Dragon PCs.

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Re: [Council of Wyrms] Boxed set vs hardback reprint

Post by Big Mac » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:10 am

NPCDave wrote:Actually I think the hardback does have everything including the handouts.

The map of Io's Blood Island Chain is on page 194-195...it isn't in color but it is there. The color artwork depicting the different sample dragons is all in the back on final pages, and in color. And the new material is located starting on page 172...in the appendix, it mentions these are expanded rules. It details the dragon slayer kit, the slayer mage kit, and the dragon sage kit. Also includes a monster manual entry for the undead dragon slayer(first appeared in Dungeon #48 magazine adventure that featured the only Council of Wyrms adventure) and a random spell generator for Dragon PCs.
Thanks Dave.

I'm a bit disappointed that the map has been made black and white, as that is more useful than the dragon size chart.

Is the Council of Wyrms adventure in the hardback too? Or has that been omitted?

How about the non-appendix content. Is it essentially a copy and paste job from the boxed set books, or have they moved things around? Are there three sets of contents and three sets of page numbers, or are the three books truly merged into one?
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Re: [Council of Wyrms] Boxed set vs hardback reprint

Post by Knightfall » Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:48 pm

Note: I once remember seeing a perfect bound softcover version of Council of Wyrms. It wasn't very thick and it had a black cover. :?:
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Re: [Council of Wyrms] Boxed set vs hardback reprint

Post by NPCDave » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:16 pm

I do think they also released a softcover version of the hardback...I think I saw it at one point.

So going through the box set and hardcover some more

Hardcover Section One : The Rules of Dragons (4 chapters)
corresponds to Book One of the box set...although they shifted Dragon Kits from Book Two into Section One of the hardcover
flipping through the pages everything is there with minor edit re-writes, artwork is all there, even a two page spread of a dragon fortified cliff wall

Hardcover Section Two: A Dragon Campaign (4 chapters)
corresponds to Book Two of the box set, again the text and maps are all there with minor changes to the text
the fourth chapter has the Dragon Kit information missing(moved to Section One) so it is now just a two page chapter in the hardcover book

Hardcover Section Three: Dragon Adventures (4 adventures)
corresponds to Book Three of the box set, all 4 adventures are present, text, artwork, maps all present

Appendix has the new kits as I mentioned, and the random spell generator which is also new.

The first 25 tables in the box set are distributed in the first two books, a few of those are repeated on some of the cardstock handouts included with the box set. Tables 26-28 are only on cardstock, so they also appear in the appendix of the hardcover on page 182 of the Appendix. Two cardstock pages have 4 pages of encounter tables, which are pages 183-186 of the hardcover appendix. The player characters sheets in the appendix are next, which were on cardstock in the box set.

All the color artwork of dragons on cardstock and one poster sized fold out is present in the hardcover.

Aha, ok here is stuff missing from the hard cover that is in the Box set....

-----
1) Two pages of NPC write up on the back of card stock, detailing Mykell the Great Wyrm, his elf vassal, Deathstream the Old, his gnome kindred and Infernis the Dracolich as well as a red dragon hatchling NPC for the first adventure. The artwork on the front of the cardstock in the box set for the three main dragons is in the hardcover, but not the stats and description on the back.

2) One poster sized fold out sheet contains a list of all the dragon clans of the Io's Blood Islands, listing each clan's name, domain location, major city and name and age of the dragon lord ruling the clan. Each metallic, gem and chromatic dragon type has 4-8 clans. There are also runic symbols for each clan name decorating the poster.

3 The two page map in the hardcover of the island chain is a hex poster-sized map in the box set.

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Re: [Council of Wyrms] Boxed set vs hardback reprint

Post by Big Mac » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:13 pm

Found this on www. Newbie DM .com: Classics Unboxed: Council of Wyrms.

The page has photographs of all the book covers and of the other parts within the boxed set.

Having now seen the three posters, I've got to say that I think the map poster is the only one I'd think of as necessary. It is a shame that was not included with the hardback.

The size comparison chart is something I wouldn't miss too much, but although I wouldn't feel I needed the Dragon Clan poster, I can see that there is a vast amount of information on it, and I don't see how this could easily be included within the hardback. You kind of need a chapter for Metallic Dragons, Gem Dragons and Chromatic Dragons, with a page or so to give you information on each clan.
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