WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

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WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Havard » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:07 am

“The tabletop side is obviously where the majority of our businesses is today and we still see a big robust future for that,” Cocks said. “The digital side is kind of where the disconnect comes between the straight-line growth curve and the hockey stick. So a fair amount of my time is spent on new initiatives and helping to build those teams and groom our plans for that.”

The company is set to release a major crossover between “Magic: The Gathering” and “Dungeons & Dragons” with “Guildmaster’s Guide to Ravnica,” a new sourcebook that will get players of the two games in the same multiverse. Cocks said to expect more of that, with classic worlds from the past and new worlds that are still to be created.
Source: https://www.geekwire.com/2018/little-ki ... ving-game/

Classic worlds meaning also non-MtG classic worlds? One can only hope.

Any ideas what Chris Cocks is talking about? What MtG/D&D Crossovers would you like to see in the future?

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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Angel Tarragon » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:11 am

I'd like to see support for Ixalan with physical products. That would definitely make me take D&D 5E more seriously.

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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Havard » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:32 am

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:11 am
I'd like to see support for Ixalan with physical products. That would definitely make me take D&D 5E more seriously.
Why Ixalan in particular? I don't know much about it, that's why I am asking :)

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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by RobJN » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:43 am

Wake me up when they roll out a Mystara-centric book and open it up to the DM's Guild.
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Angel Tarragon » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:44 am

Havard wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:32 am
Why Ixalan in particular? I don't know much about it, that's why I am asking :)
It's closer to my ideal concept of a campaign setting; Dungeons & Dinosaurs.

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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Big Mac » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:15 pm

Cocks said to expect more of that, with classic worlds from the past and new worlds that are still to be created.
I think the classic worlds would be Mystara and worlds supported during the early part of 2nd Edition (probably not the Odyssey worlds), but I'm very interested in what Chris Cocks meant by "new".

There could be several "new" worlds from Magic: The Gathering, but if they truly mean something that has never had a D&D product before, what might that be. :?

I guess they could build up Aquaria Aquela (James Wyatt's setting) or Iomandra (Chris Perkins's setting). :)
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Dread Delgath » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:33 pm

Hockey stick? I have no idea what that comment meant.

I also like Ixalan, and prior to the upcoming release of the Ravnica book, it has had the most support from within WotC because it has one short introductory adventure set in Ixalan. And dinosaurs. :)

As for "classic" settings, we all know which ones there are, and which ones we'd like to see. They just teasin' us now.

I'd be happy to see anything from any world, as long as the adventures to follow are not re-releases of the classic & beloved adventures we've seen so far. Its time for something new, and I mean original adventures and campaigns - but not 'new' as to blow up an old setting like they did to Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms.

Well, to be fair, TSR blew up Greyhawk with a War and shaved Mordenkainen's head. But WotC really blew up the Realms. Twice!

Stop it. :|
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by willpell » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:00 pm

One interesting thing to see would be if we got a D&D book expanding the backstory of some MTG planes that really only exist as backstory anyway. The "Planechase" product was an optional version of the card game which contained "Plane" cards that gave interesting teases of other planes we've never actually visited in a card set. (Including one which I think they stole the name for from one of my posts on their old forum.) We're unlikely ever to have cards printed which fully detail such a setting, but a page or two of RPG text could bring them to life.

For a more conventional project, Ravnica is far and away the best setting to have done this with, but my vote for the follow-up would be New Phyrexia, which is a plane of absolute horror that's very different from all the existing versions of True Evil in D&D. The idea of having Sheoldred and Vorinclex lead an invasion into the Nine Hells to try and compleat Asmodeus amuses me considerably.

The biggest problem in any sort of D&D/Magic crossover is that the two have radically different magical theories. MTG magic isn't remotely Vancian in nature; it's closer to resembling psionics, in terms of how you cast large numbers of weak spells or a few powerful ones, by rationing an energy source however you see fit (instead of having to choose at the start of the day what those ratios will be). With, obviously, the difference that your "power points" are drawn from the lands you visit, rather than being generated within yourself. In MTG's setting, wizards don't have small Hit Dice and poor weapon proficiencies; pretty much any sort of creature is equally likely to become a powerful spellcaster in addition to its physical prowess.

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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by shesheyan » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:14 pm

«Growth in hobby game stores*, a core driver of Wizards’ business, is also a leading factor in the company’s success. And the huge audiences attracted to the streaming of games online, on platforms such as YouTube and the Amazon-owned Twitch, has helped “D&D” in particular see record sales. Cocks said they’re in their fourth year of in excess of 30 percent growth per year on “D&D.” »

I'm liking these figures. Interesting article. Its good to learn that «the suit» has played D&D (on and off) since he was 8 years old. As for the rest I'll just wait for official announcements. As for the Ravnica setting I'll wait for reviews by people who have the books in their hands.

(*our local game store has expanded twice in the last two years. Very soon it will have three private rooms to play D&D and other RPGs. I'm seeing lots of people in their twenties and thirties playing RPGs these days.)
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by barrataria » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:27 pm

I know less than nothing about MtG, are there different decks/games/versions that take place in different "worlds"? I had no idea but I suppose it makes sense.

Thanks for the thread in general, I remember seeing headlines like "Hasbro reports terrible results" but I didn't realize they had specifically called out D&D as in contrast. I suppose at some point their content might be attractive to media companies hungry for locking it up/locking others out.

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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by RobJN » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:06 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:14 pm
(*or local game store has expanded twice in the last two years. Very soon it will have three private rooms to play D&D and other RPGs. I'm seeing lots of people in their twenties and thirties playing RPGs these days.)
The wife went by the FLGS to observe a game night as part of one of her sociology classes, and was amazed at the age spread: a few greybeards, a surprising number of 30s and college-aged "kids," all mixing it up at various tables. This, I think, was a bit after 5e had launched.
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Icarus » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:55 am

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Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:33 pm
Hockey stick? I have no idea what that comment meant.
He's referring to if the growth were charted on a graph.
It wouldn't be an even, steady line showing continuous growth.
It'd be mostly flat for a long time, and then it would suddenly take a dramatic turn, close to a right angle … shaped like a hockey stick.

He's saying that there wasn't online content like there is now, and there's been a sudden spike of streaming and online play.
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Tim Baker » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:46 am

Wasn't there a setting that was a runner up in the contest that WotC held, leading to Eberron? I thought some of the settings were sold to other publishers by their designers in the 3.x era, but that there was another one that WotC is still holding onto. Maybe that could be the "new" setting. Or perhaps it's something truly new (as in recently created, not just never-before-seen).
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by XstarkillerX » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:32 am

Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:46 am
Wasn't there a setting that was a runner up in the contest that WotC held, leading to Eberron? I thought some of the settings were sold to other publishers by their designers in the 3.x era, but that there was another one that WotC is still holding onto. Maybe that could be the "new" setting. Or perhaps it's something truly new (as in recently created, not just never-before-seen).
I had even forgot that Eberron was the winner of a contest, but I think you're right. IIRC, the writer of the second placed setting was the same guy who created the Order of the Stick webcomic, but don't take my word on this.
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by willpell » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:04 pm

barrataria wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:27 pm
I know less than nothing about MtG, are there different decks/games/versions that take place in different "worlds"? I had no idea but I suppose it makes sense.
So, every MTG card depicts a single creature, spell, landscape, artifact or the like, and most of these are conceptually designed as coming from specific "planes", which are dreamed up by the MTG creative team. They publish 3 or 4 "expansion sets" a year, each of which contains between 100 and 400 distinct cards. Each year, the creative team either designs a new plane, or decides on a particular theme which will revisit an existing plane while innovating on it in some particular fashion. I'll use the "Random Card" function on the master database of all MTG cards and come up with a few examples of these planes:

Plains (Rise of the Eldrazi) - One of the five "basic land" types that get reprinted in every year's new "large expansion", a Plains is any landscape characterized by a broad, flat expanse which gathers a great deal of sunlight, and as such is a good source for White Mana, the magical energy source tied to sustenance of life, civilization, monotheistic authority, the sky, and similar interlinked concepts that are integral to White Magic (in the MTG sense). This particular artwork for a Plains was created for 2010's "Rise of the Eldrazi" set, which was a sequel to the expansion set "Zendikar", which introduced the plane of the same name. Zendikar is a D&D-esque setting where the land itself is alive and constantly changing, which turned out to be due to the presence of imprisoned monsters known as Eldrazi which escaped their captivity in the "Rise" set. The 2014 expansion "Battle for Zendikar" returned to this story and showed how the Eldrazi had utterly devastated Zendikar, rendering huge swaths of it uninhabitable. "Rise" however still features a mostly-intact Zendikar, where magical stone objects known as Hedrons often float in midair under their power, and have begun to unfold into spiky star shapes which demonstrate them to have been "activated"; they were created by a Planeswalker by the name of Nahiri the Lithomancer, a member of the albino-esque near-human race known as the Kor (who were originally designed as actual humans, but the artist who painted them used such a stylistic look that they were later reinterpreted as having catfish barbels in place of hair for the males, so they can't be fully human anymore). Nahiri designed the Hedrons to help imprison the Eldrazi, with the assistance of two other Planeswalkers, the amoral vampire Sorin Markov from the "gothic horror" plane of Innistrad, and Ugin the Spirit Dragon, protector of the Mongolian-style plane Tarkir. After Zendikar was destroyed in 2014, Nahiri went mad with rage at the destruction of her homeworld, and intentionally sent the Eldrazi to Innistrad so that Sorin, who she blamed for not trying hard enough to protect her plane, would find out what it was like to see his birthplace ravaged in similar fashion. Ugin meanwhile was nearly killed in battle with another dragon planeswalker, the evil Nicol Bolas, but Bolas's former minion Sarkhan Vol, a native of Tarkir, was catapulted back in time to intervene in the battle between the two dragons, and thus prevented the extinction of Tarkir's resident dragons at the hands of its humanoid empires.

Voice of Grace - An example of the kind of things that White Mana can summon, this angel is a resident of the artificial plane created by the godlike planeswalker Serra, a realm of floating "islands" of land in an endless expanse of sky, where the air itself gave nutrition and sustenance to the people whom Serra had cultivated as her "flock". Angels such as Gracie here were charged with tending to the citizenry, and for a time life in this realm was utterly paradisical. When the artificer-planeswalker Urza visited Serra's Realm (known by no other name), he admired her greatly, but eventually left, and in his wake was followed there by his enemies, the Phyrexians, a race of machine-spliced abominations from an also-artificial plane that was devoted entirely to Black mana, the antithesis of White. Phyrexia's spies wormed their way into the society of Serra's Realm, disrupting its harmony and sowing genocidal paranoia among the residents, both human and angel; Serra had departed the plane to resume her travels across the Multiverse, and the archangel Radiant proved to be a poor substitute for the near-divine ruler. Under her flawed leadership, and thanks to the expert manipulation of her secretly-Phyrexian chief advisor, War Minister Gorig, Radiant slaughtered her own people under the mistaken impression they were Phyrexian sympathizers, and remained clueless about the corruption within her own court. Thanks to Gorig's activities, combined with the fact that artificial planes are unstable by their nature and can only be sustained by the direct presence of their creator, Serra's Realm began to collapse, and Urza used his flying ship Weatherlight to evacuate the citizens, both human and angel, back to his homeworld of Dominia, while capturing the last dying embers of energy that had sustained the disintegrating plane and using them to charge the Weatherlight's central power crystal. The millenia-long war between Phyrexia and Dominaria was still just beginning to heat up.... (All of this storyline was written in about 1998, and it features a definition of "planeswalkers" which is very different from the one which has prevailed since 2006, when the writers decided it was too hard to tell stories about beings who were effectively omnipotent. The event in which the "Planeswalker Spark" lost most of its potency is known as the Mending, and is detailed in the companion novels to the 2006 "Time Spiral" expansion.)

Hero of Leina Tower - I have a bit less to say about this card, because it comes from the 2013 "Theros" expansion, and I pretty much stopped paying attention to Magic for about a full year on either side of '13. "Theros" was a Greek-Mythology plane whose gods were real; the mechanical gimmick of the set was "enchantment creatures", and these invariably represented the gods themselves or their minions, who dwelt in Theros's parallel celestial plane of Nyx. One of the denizens of Theros was a satyr named Xenagos, whose ascension to Planeswalker status left him so severely disillusioned that he became an anarchistic nihilist, instead of merely a wanton reveler like most other satyrs. He sought and achieved godhood, disturbing the equilibrium of Nyx's previous denizens, and the self-styled "heroes" of the Theriad were eventually forced to travel into Nyx and kill the nascent deity before he utterly unraveled their entire homeworld. The planeswalker Gideon Jura, who is connected to the story of Zendikar's destruction as well as to the "iconic" fire-mage Chandra Nalaar, was originally a Theros native named Kytheon Iora, who planeswalked to the world of Bant (one of the five "Shards of Alara") where his name was mispronounced in a way that eventually stuck. His first appearance in the storyline was when he attacked Chandra in the monasteries of the plane of Regatha, the destination of her own first planeswalk; Chandra's homeworld of Kaladesh is a beautiful but rather uninteresting world of steampunk-esque artificers, which came under attack by the sinister metal-fleshed planeswalker Tezzeret, whose homeworld of Esper is another of the Alara "shards". (This is all pretty modern stuff; Shards of Alara was published roughly 2009, describing the five Shards in isolation and then showing how the plans of Nicol Bolas eventually led to them reuniting into Alara Reborn; 2015's "Magic Origins" set was dedicated to spelling out the backstories of five particularly famous planeswalkers, including Gideon and Chandra, and literally everything we know about the plane of Regatha is either from Origins or from the novel "The Purifying Fire", which describes Chandra and introduces Gideon as a character for the first time. Origins also premiered Kaladesh, which was expanded into its own full expansion set about a year later, and it is the only set since 2010 to further detail Alara (touching only on the Bant shard, since that was the only one visited by Gideon or any of the other four planeswalkers it concerned). I don't have much to add about Theros, except that it was the first card-game appearance of the tentacle-obsessed merfolk planeswalker Kiora, who originally premiered in a now-forgotten computer product of some sort (Wotco keeps trying to tap the video game market, and few of their efforts last more than a few years).

There, that should give you some idea of just how deep the lore of this silly "cardboard crack" game actually is. Lots of creative talent being largely wasted on a lucrative gimmick, which I quit wasting my money on with substantial difficulty about five years ago, but I'm always happy to talk about the fluff, which was always my favorite part of it.

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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Tim Baker » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:51 am

That's an impressive amount for lore for each of these cards. And there are hundreds more released each year. The amount of lore available must be staggering! Considering how little is written on each card, where is the lore recorded?
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by XstarkillerX » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:54 am

Tim Baker wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:51 am
That's an impressive amount for lore for each of these cards. And there are hundreds more released each year. The amount of lore available must be staggering! Considering how little is written on each card, where is the lore recorded?
A lot of novels where written for the MtG multiverse (Wikipedia has a list).
Novel production was eventually discontinued, but WotC continues to put episodic stories on its website with the release of each new set.
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by barrataria » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:31 am

Thank you willpell, that post hurt my head but I appreciate it. I had no idea that setting had anything to do with MtG play. I'm not going to run out and buy those new books but I'll definitely pay attention going forward.

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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Icarus » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:44 pm

Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:46 am
Wasn't there a setting that was a runner up in the contest that WotC held, leading to Eberron? I thought some of the settings were sold to other publishers by their designers in the 3.x era, but that there was another one that WotC is still holding onto. Maybe that could be the "new" setting. Or perhaps it's something truly new (as in recently created, not just never-before-seen).
I think they're referring to the latter.
The implication is that it's "new worlds that are still to be created" in the quote, not just generally "new".
One could argue that if it hasn't been published, and they're just sitting on it, that it's not yet "created", per se. But, I don't think that's the intent.
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by shesheyan » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:15 pm

Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:46 am
Wasn't there a setting that was a runner up in the contest that WotC held, leading to Eberron? I thought some of the settings were sold to other publishers by their designers in the 3.x era, but that there was another one that WotC is still holding onto. Maybe that could be the "new" setting. Or perhaps it's something truly new (as in recently created, not just never-before-seen).
Well if it is my submission to the WoTC campaign contest I haven't heard from them yet.... :lol:

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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by willpell » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:01 pm

Tim Baker wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:51 am
That's an impressive amount for lore for each of these cards. And there are hundreds more released each year. The amount of lore available must be staggering!
Well a lot of it gets repetitive; Voice of Law isn't going to tell you very much that Voice of Grace didn't already. But yes, if you just wrote down all the facts about the fictional universe that MTG takes place in, Wikipedia-style, the amount of lore would definitely be comparable to something like Forgotten Realms, and would begin to approach the kind of detail you can achieve in descriptions of the real world. Which is proof that the creative teams are earning their paychecks, even if I wish there was a better way for the company to generate that revenue than to produce an intentionally obsolescent and incredibly wasteful game targeted mostly toward hormonal adolescents.
Considering how little is written on each card, where is the lore recorded?
Sadly, it's quite scattered about. Besides the aforementioned novels and web articles, there have also been tie-in comic books, collector's guides which contain a few behind-the-scenes hints, and even snippets in some of the early rulebooks; there used to be websites dedicated to curating this information, but a lot of them have succumbed to the ravages of time, and Wotco's refusal to make its own history a business priority has repeatedly undercut efforts to maintain a reliable archive. In a lot of cases, I will repeat something that I vaguely recall having read, without being able to cite the source precisely. But this is fitting from an in-universe perspective, as pretty much nobody knows all of this stuff anyway, and black and blue mages in particular generate misinformation to deceive the unwary all the time.

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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Havard » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:07 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:15 pm
Cocks said to expect more of that, with classic worlds from the past and new worlds that are still to be created.
I think the classic worlds would be Mystara and worlds supported during the early part of 2nd Edition (probably not the Odyssey worlds), but I'm very interested in what Chris Cocks meant by "new".
Someone pointed out that the classic world is likely Mystara in the sense that it will be included in the Isle of Dread reprint from GMG which is well known by now.


I guess they could build up Aquaria (James Wyatt's setting) or Iomandra (Chris Perkins's setting). :)
James Wyatt made a setting called Aquaria? Or are you thinking about Mahasarpa? I only know of Frank Mentzer's Aquaria...


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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Big Mac » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:04 am

XstarkillerX wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:32 am
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:46 am
Wasn't there a setting that was a runner up in the contest that WotC held, leading to Eberron? I thought some of the settings were sold to other publishers by their designers in the 3.x era, but that there was another one that WotC is still holding onto. Maybe that could be the "new" setting. Or perhaps it's something truly new (as in recently created, not just never-before-seen).
I had even forgot that Eberron was the winner of a contest, but I think you're right. IIRC, the writer of the second placed setting was the same guy who created the Order of the Stick webcomic, but don't take my word on this.
This RPG.net post has the top 8 finalists. Rich Burlew came second and Nathan Toomey came third. The other runners up didn't sell their campaign settings to WotC, and some of them published their worlds via other publishers.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Big Mac » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:15 am

Havard wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:07 pm
Big Mac wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:15 pm
I guess they could build up Aquaria (James Wyatt's setting) or Iomandra (Chris Perkins's setting). :)
James Wyatt made a setting called Aquaria? Or are you thinking about Mahasarpa? I only know of Frank Mentzer's Aquaria...
Sorry, I meant Aquela. :oops:

Aquela was a world that James Wyatt wrote up for the campaign setting search (the one that Eberron won). He published it free on his own website. It's been taken down since, but it was pretty interesting. I'm not sure if the Wayback Machine has a copy.
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Re: WotC says more MtG/D&D Crossovers and New D&D Worlds in the works

Post by Havard » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:19 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:15 am
Havard wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:07 pm
Big Mac wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:15 pm
I guess they could build up Aquaria (James Wyatt's setting) or Iomandra (Chris Perkins's setting). :)
James Wyatt made a setting called Aquaria? Or are you thinking about Mahasarpa? I only know of Frank Mentzer's Aquaria...
Sorry, I meant Aquela. :oops:

Aquela was a world that James Wyatt wrote up for the campaign setting search (the one that Eberron won). He published it free on his own website. It's been taken down since, but it was pretty interesting. I'm not sure if the Wayback Machine has a copy.
Maybe we should have a thread about it......? :ugeek:

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