Ripvanwormer (and others): Where would you place Ghyr in Oerth?

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Mystara Way
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Ripvanwormer (and others): Where would you place Ghyr in Oerth?

Post by Mystara Way » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:39 am

Hey M-gang, remember that WotC article which tells of how Warduke appeared "from nowhere" following the Greyhawk Wars, to become a Hierarch of the Horned Society? Well, I realize this was part of the 3E approach of making Oerth the default core world into which everything "generic" was placed; but a case could be made for placing Ghyr in Oerth, at least in one continuity (I don't mean exclusively in Oerth).

In the "Greyhawk Ghyr" continuity, where would you place Ghyr on the map? This is made more difficult by the fact that we only have a map of the northern edge of Ghyr (XL1's Northern Marsh and the Mountains of Ice). I'm not a Greyhawk loremaster, so I ask your help - in particular I remember Ripvanwormer was pretty up on Greyhawk (but anyone else feel free to chime in.)

The only two criteria I see are:

1) Since Ghyr is a full-blown kingdom, and since the Flanaess is already mapped out, then Ghyr might be located outside of the Flanaess. Though I suppose someone could make a case that it's a Flanaess kingdom which hasn't been noticed before.

2) XL1 specifically says that Ghyr is a northern land relative to surrounding countries (who fought the Prism Wars). And the Mountains of Ice must be pretty northerly.

Any ideas?

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Re: Ripvanwormer (and others): Where would you place Ghyr in Oerth?

Post by ripvanwormer » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:15 am

Well, if you want to know how I'd do things, I wrote an article on the Horned Society that gave Warduke a name and backstory, placing him in Furyondy.
ripvanwormer wrote:One of his first recruits was the wandering fighter Warduke, who was in reality Damen Tyneman, a Furyondian noble, a son of Duke Bennel Tyneman of the Reach. Bennel Tyneman's wife was one of Belvor III's younger sisters, making his son a cousin of the crown prince. In childhood, Damen Tyneman spent a great deal of time with his second cousin Thrommel Fairwain.

Bennel Tyneman is the son of Gertrue, the widow of Thrommel II "the Usurper," who married the Duke of the Reach after her husband was executed by Belvor III. She attempted to groom her son by the Duke of the Reach to take the throne, but the hedonistic Duke Bennel was never interested in his vengeful mother's schemes. His son Damen, however, proved to be extremely susceptible to his grandmother's manipulations. Since Damen's own mother was Alyndra Fairwain, the youngest sister of Belvor III, he has always felt he has a real claim on the throne should something happen to his cousin Prince Thrommel.

In their youths, encouraged by his mother and grandmother, Damen was very close to his cousin, and they adventured together early on as part of a party of young nobles who disguised their names in order to travel without the burdens and dangers of association with their famous families. Calling themselves the Company of the Heartstone after an artifact for which they quested, they included Prince Peralay Brightflame of Celene, who adventured under the name "Melf;" Prince Olinstaad Corond of Ulek, who called himself "Elkhorn;" Prince Thrommel Fairwain of Furyondy, who called himself "Strongheart;" and Sir Damen Tyneman of the Reach, who called himself "Warduke." Other party members, not all of them of noble blood, included the thieves Figgen, Foxfingers and Zarak, the wizards Ringlerun, Skylla, and Kellek, and the clerics Mercion, Raven, and Zargash.
What I didn't do was try to incorporate Ghyr, King Ganto, or Queen Leahra. The Company of the Heartstone was seeking the artifact for some other reason than XL1 gave, which I didn't define.

I think the map in XL1 fits fairly well in Blackmoor, however, using the Land of Black Ice in place of the Mountains of Ice, the Cold Marshes in place of the marshes on the XL1 map, and the Burneal Forest in place of XL1's Woods. Castle Ghyr could be the seat of a relatively minor local lord who styled himself "king" rather than a full-fledged monarch. Cold Stone Keep on Anna's map might work well enough. Here's a map of the Flanaess.

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Re: Ripvanwormer (and others): Where would you place Ghyr in Oerth?

Post by Mystara Way » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:46 am

Cool thanks for responding! Great work on melding the Heartstone gang and GH. That's exactly what I needed.

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Re: Ripvanwormer (and others): Where would you place Ghyr in Oerth?

Post by Cthulhudrew » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:37 pm

Like Rip, I didn't attempt to incorporate Ghyr or the brief backstory from XL-1 at all. I didn't even attempt to use the Heartstone for the back stories of the LJN characters.

Instead, I built off the history of Warduke from that Dungeon article. Strongheart was a Furyondian noble (but not Warduke, as in rip's tale) and Warduke was a warrior in his military unit. The two men fought together against the hordes of Iuz, but were defeated and both men were captured. Strongheart was ransomed back to his family in Furyondy, but the un-titled Warduke was instead sold into slavery. He gradually became a pit fighter of some renown in the Bandit Kingdoms.

When Iuz invaded in 583 CY, the man now known as Warduke (for such was his moniker in the pits) took advantage of the chaos to lead a revolt of pit fighters (among whose ranks was Drex, another LJN character). The now freedmen proceeded to raid and plunder the countryside, occasionally selling their services as a mercenary army, during the years following the Greyhawk Wars. Eventually Warduke came into the employ of the Horned Society when that organization began to rebuild itself.

I hadn't placed all of the other LJN characters in Greyhawk, but as I recall, my initial thoughts were some of the following:

Peralay was going to be an alias of Melf the Elf (aka, Prince Brightflame of Celene, Luke Gygax's character; indeed, the Peralay figure was originally released as Melf, though it quickly changed.)

Kelek was going to be a wizard of the Scarlet Brotherhood initially, although my thoughts on that wavered a bit when looking more closely at some of the artwork of Kelek in the coloring books and storybooks (notably "The Treasure of Time" in which his pointy ears seem even more prominent when he is de-aged, to the point I began to suspect that he might be a half-elf, although he is never explicitly identified as such).

Valkeer, naturally, was one of the Schnai (Snow Barbarians), and Drex- as previously mentioned- ended up becoming one of Warduke's right-hand men dating back to their mutual days among the pit fights.

Zarak fits very well into Greyhawk, which has always had a place for both half-orcs and assassins, dating back to 1E. I believe Bowmarc was either going to be another Furyondian noble (albeit a more militant one than Strongheart) or perhaps a Shield Lander.

If you were to try and incorporate Ghyr, I think you could easily fit the Prism Wars in somewhere near the beginning of the Greyhawk Wars, perhaps as a prelude to them. An artifact like the Heartstone would certainly be an object of some interest during wartime, as regents sought a means to ensure the loyalties of the men who followed them (particularly given how often the forces of Chaos like to hide amongst their ranks- the Scarlet Brotherhood are notable infiltrators and spies).
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Mystara Way
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Re: Ripvanwormer (and others): Where would you place Ghyr in Oerth?

Post by Mystara Way » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:48 am

Thanks for this Cthulhudrew! Those backstories are fitting! This will be useful to me too.

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Re: Ripvanwormer (and others): Where would you place Ghyr in Oerth?

Post by Merkholz » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:10 am

I meshed XL1 with WG 10 made the Kingdom of Ghyr into the monarchy of Rhesdain. Having a minor canton being a monarchy seemed OK and it sort of worked with the crazy plot in WG 10. I also found it acceptable to have a few Mountains just nort of the Cold Marshes and then the overland trek to the lair in XL 1 suddenly included a bit of Wolf Nomad spice. IMO this works pretty well.

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Re: Ripvanwormer (and others): Where would you place Ghyr in Oerth?

Post by Mystara Way » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:13 am

Cool - thanks Merkholz! You got me looking into Perrenland and WG10 - zany!

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Re: Ripvanwormer (and others): Where would you place Ghyr in Oerth?

Post by Mystara Way » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:07 am

P.S. Merkholz, I looked at various online maps of Perrenland but couldn't find Rhesdain - I realize it's kind of an oddball addition to Greyhawk which doesn't have an exact canonical placement; so exactly where did you place Rhesdain/Ghyr relative to Perrenland?

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