Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

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Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Tim Baker » Wed May 08, 2019 6:07 am

According to Newbie DM on Twitter, Ghosts of Saltmarsh is "unequivocally set in Greyhawk."
@newbiedm wrote: First, the setting...The village of Saltmarsh is unequivocally set in Greyhawk. It says so in the book. This is not set in the Forgotten Realms, nor in some ambiguous generic world. This is Greyhawk.
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Big Mac » Wed May 08, 2019 7:35 am

Very nice!

And we have at least one official 5th Edition Greyhawk map!
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Morfie » Wed May 08, 2019 7:42 am

Woohoo! This should mean that Greyhawk is the next setting to be "unlocked" on DM's Guild.

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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Big Mac » Wed May 08, 2019 12:10 pm

Morfie wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:42 am
Woohoo! This should mean that Greyhawk is the next setting to be "unlocked" on DM's Guild.
It should, but there is no sign of Ghosts of Saltmarsh Greyhawk in the options...

...yet.
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Argentmantle » Wed May 08, 2019 2:29 pm

Oooh, exciting, and it looks like that there is a "Placing the Adventure" that has officially listed Mystara as well. Seems like the first time in a while that the words Mystara and Five Shires have been mentioned in an official product.

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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Icarus » Wed May 08, 2019 3:22 pm

<prepares to write and release on the DMsGuild>

<waits with bated breath>

I seem to recall a mention of a “big announcement” to be made before the upcoming DnDLive2019 event.
Maybe it was Greg Tito? DragonTalk? Dragon+? I can’t seem to recall.
But, here’s to hoping.
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Lord Kjeran » Wed May 08, 2019 4:03 pm

Can't wait for this one!

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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by stebehil » Wed May 08, 2019 8:00 pm

Preordered it via my FLGS, with the special cover - and now, wanting it even more. Greyhawk AND Mystara - now that is something, even if Mystara is mentioned only in passing so far.

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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Coronoides » Wed May 08, 2019 11:04 pm

I wonder how much influence the existence and activity of Greyhawk fans here and elsewhere had on the decision to release an official Greyhawk adventure? I don’t think we’ll every know.
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Saracenus » Thu May 09, 2019 4:46 am

So here is the Greyhawk DMs Guild Answer from my friend Chris Lindsay (WotC)... Greyhawk NO, Saltmash YES...

https://twitter.com/Onnatryx/status/1123765708549238785
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Tim Baker » Thu May 09, 2019 5:52 am

Saracenus wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:46 am
So here is the Greyhawk DMs Guild Answer from my friend Chris Lindsay (WotC)... Greyhawk NO, Saltmash YES...

https://twitter.com/Onnatryx/status/1123765708549238785
Thanks for sharing that. I'm sure it's disappointing news for the Greyhawk fans who were hoping to see new content for the setting.

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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Icarus » Thu May 09, 2019 2:25 pm

Tim Baker wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:52 am
Saracenus wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:46 am
So here is the Greyhawk DMs Guild Answer from my friend Chris Lindsay (WotC)... Greyhawk NO, Saltmash YES...

https://twitter.com/Onnatryx/status/1123765708549238785
Thanks for sharing that. I'm sure it's disappointing news for the Greyhawk fans who were hoping to see new content for the setting.
Well, I certainly can't speak for everyone, but, this Greyhawk Fan™ is absolutely ecstatic!!!
I think that this is likely a first step toward opening Greyhawk as a whole!!
I'm sure there's concerns about how to best avoid IP pitfalls, but, it's my personal (and professional) opinion that if they weren't going to open GH to the DMsGuild eventually, or weren't even thinking about it, or were going to avoid it altogether, then they wouldn't be taking this step at all.
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by GMWestermeyer » Fri May 10, 2019 8:46 pm

What year did they set the module in, anyone know?

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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Icarus » Fri May 10, 2019 10:13 pm

GMWestermeyer wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:46 pm
What year did they set the module in, anyone know?
I don't know that they've given it a date by the official Common Year calendar, specifically, GMWestermeyer. I feel it's likely they thought it'd be too much extraneous detail to add within the scope of the adventure.

But, I'm rather sure that there'll be something like "16 years after the Temple of Elemental Evil was put down the second time, [such and such] happened".
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Big Mac » Sat May 11, 2019 10:10 am

Tim Baker wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:52 am
Saracenus wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:46 am
So here is the Greyhawk DMs Guild Answer from my friend Chris Lindsay (WotC)... Greyhawk NO, Saltmash YES...

https://twitter.com/Onnatryx/status/1123765708549238785
Thanks for sharing that. I'm sure it's disappointing news for the Greyhawk fans who were hoping to see new content for the setting.
I wonder if that means that they are holding Greyhawk back, so that they can put out some sort of "hero Greyhawk product" along similar lines to Sword Coast Adventurers Guide. :?

Once they open DMs Guild to full-blown Greyhawk content, there will be plenty of fans authors seeking to fill every gap in the market. If they get in first, with anything they want to promote, they will get maximum publicity and sales on that "hero product".
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Big Mac » Sat May 11, 2019 10:14 am

Icarus wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 2:25 pm
Tim Baker wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:52 am
Saracenus wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:46 am
So here is the Greyhawk DMs Guild Answer from my friend Chris Lindsay (WotC)... Greyhawk NO, Saltmash YES...

https://twitter.com/Onnatryx/status/1123765708549238785
Thanks for sharing that. I'm sure it's disappointing news for the Greyhawk fans who were hoping to see new content for the setting.
Well, I certainly can't speak for everyone, but, this Greyhawk Fan™ is absolutely ecstatic!!!
I think that this is likely a first step toward opening Greyhawk as a whole!!
I'm sure there's concerns about how to best avoid IP pitfalls, but, it's my personal (and professional) opinion that if they weren't going to open GH to the DMsGuild eventually, or weren't even thinking about it, or were going to avoid it altogether, then they wouldn't be taking this step at all.
What can people do with just Saltmarsh?

How does it compare (in size) to a Living Greyhawk region?

How does it compare (in size) to something like FR's Living City?

How much do you think that people could get away with creating towns and villages that were described as being "30 miles north of Saltmarsh" instead of being described as being part of the Flanaess?
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Zenopus » Wed May 15, 2019 5:56 pm

Some preview "flip thru" videos are up on YT now. The area map for Saltmarsh is simply a color updating (redrawn) of the original one from U2 Danger at Dunwater, and includes the Greyhawk features of the Azure Sea, the Dreadwood and the Hool Marshes. It even includes the original hexes, which in U2 were coded to specific WoG hexes! The text further mentions at least the Kingdom of Keoland, a Greyhawk kingdom going back to the pre-Greyhawk Great Kingdom maps.

In a further twist, the've also placed the Tower of Zenopus from the Sample Dungeon in the original (Holmes) Basic Set across the river mouth from Saltmarsh, and there are four paragraphs setting it up as an adventure locale to be designed by the DM. It's the first time the Tower of Zenopus has been given an official Greyhawk location! My thoughts on this are here:

The Tower of Zenopus in Ghosts of Saltmarsh

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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Seethyr » Thu May 16, 2019 12:20 am

I’m very glad that Greyhawk is getting a smidgen of love, but I’m sad they aren’t opening up the setting. My eventual hope is a fully integrated multiverse/cosmos like in the 2e day’s. I’d love to see a Wizards Three article once again!
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by KtA » Sun May 26, 2019 12:16 am

Big Mac wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:14 am
How does it compare (in size) to a Living Greyhawk region?

How does it compare (in size) to something like FR's Living City?
The "Saltmarsh and Environs" map (Map 1.2 in Chapter 1) covers something like 65 x 50 miles. In addition to the adventure-specific locations (sahuagin fortress, lizardfolk lair, etc) two other settlements are marked - Burle (an outpost) and Seaton (a city larger than Saltmarsh, the province's capital). They are briefly described (a few paragraphs each) but not fully detailed.

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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by shesheyan » Sun May 26, 2019 1:08 pm

Failed my saving throw Friday and bought this book. Saltmarsh UK1 is one of my best rpg experiences. It freed me of the «dungeon» when I design fantasy adventures. So far I'm like what I have read. I'll try to «plug» these adventures in my Valley of Baron Utherden campaign.

MODERATOR NOTE (by Big Mac): Question about newer races and replies split into new topic called: Does Ghosts of Saltmarsh include newer races like Dragonborn and Tieflings?

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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Big Mac » Tue May 28, 2019 4:30 pm

Zenopus wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:56 pm
In a further twist, the've also placed the Tower of Zenopus from the Sample Dungeon in the original (Holmes) Basic Set across the river mouth from Saltmarsh, and there are four paragraphs setting it up as an adventure locale to be designed by the DM. It's the first time the Tower of Zenopus has been given an official Greyhawk location! My thoughts on this are here:

The Tower of Zenopus in Ghosts of Saltmarsh
That seems like a major development!

Did other Holmes elements get absorbed into Mystara or Greyhawk? Or have they been largely abandoned, until this book?
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Big Mac » Tue May 28, 2019 4:40 pm

Seethyr wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:20 am
I’m very glad that Greyhawk is getting a smidgen of love, but I’m sad they aren’t opening up the setting. My eventual hope is a fully integrated multiverse/cosmos like in the 2e day’s. I’d love to see a Wizards Three article once again!
To be honest, after Nathan Stewart came up with the "Spelljammer confirmed" thing, to make people think this very book (which they called Boats and Shite at one point was a Spelljammer product...and then said that WotC definitely would not bring back an old setting in 2019, I kind of don't believe a word they say (until the actual product is out there). It's worth watching Spoilers and Swag to win things, and see previews, but I'd pretty much treat anything they say on the show as BS misdirection.

Dungeon Master's Guild have still not added Ghosts of Saltmarsh as a storyline. So I'll only believe that this is going to be open to DMs Guild, but not as a Greyhawk product, if they add the book in that category, but avoid adding the Greyhawk setting.

(And if they do do that, they will confuse a lot of people and have people putting up Greyhawk stuff and not flagging it as Greyhawk.)

MODERATOR NOTE (by Big Mac): Comments about Homes possibly naming Zenopus after a frog called "Xenopus" split into a new topic called Is the Tower of Zenopus named after a frog?
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Dread Delgath » Fri May 31, 2019 5:33 pm

Ghosts of Saltmarsh is like Tales from the Yawning Portal as it collects older adventures from editions passed, but it is different as it takes the heart of the adventure set in Greyhawk (the U series) and sets all of the other adventures in that area. Tales from the Yawning Portal doesn't do this, it only suggests that the owner of the YP tells the players of each adventure in that tome.

As for WotC not opening a door to an older campaign setting... Ghosts of Saltmarsh is more of an open window to view the World of Greyhawk than a door. :cool:
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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by stebehil » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:12 am

After reading the chapter about Saltmarsh, I cannot help but wonder about a detail. This might be spoilerific, so I´m hiding it.
There is a tiefling in town, who is buying and selling magic items. She is affiliated with Iuz, and even orders magic items from there. She heads a trade delegation buying preserved foodstuffs for Iuz, openly displaying their allegiance. The background for this is that Keoland went through an expansionist phase, and made enemies to the north. In turn, going with "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", apparently there are friendly dealings with Iuz. King Skotti is a high-level ranger, given as LG in 3e. While the imperial phase of Keoland was always canon, friendly dealings with Iuz are nothing I would see as possible, King Skotti would probably crush any development as soon as he gets to know this. In fact, the older editions list Iuz among the enemies of the realm. Furthermore, just the logistics of this don´t make any sense at all. Buying foodstuff in southern Keoland and transporting it by ship all the way to Iuz? I would rewrite that section completely.

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Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh "unequivocally set in Greyhawk"

Post by Dread Delgath » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:41 pm

stebehil: I agree with your assessment completely. I'd ignore or re-write that bit as it goes counter to how those things work in D&D. However, I guess it was necessary to have that campaign detail for some reason other than simple flavor, or the 5e writer would not have added it.

I would definitely not have the tiefling NPC operate out in the open, nor have allow King Skotti or anyone else in a position of power in the Kingdom of Keoland be aware of commercial connections to Iuz. Greyhawk nations are categorized by feudalism, monarchies and theocracies, not capitalism*, so a connection (even a tenuous but official trade link) between Keoland and Iuz makes no sense whatsoever. Historically, medieval fantasy games revolve around kingdoms or theocracies that may or may not operate as feudal states, and are granted the privilege of ruling by a deity - a king or queen rules by the grace of that deity, and enemies of any such state would be of opposing alignment, no matter what they had to offer. In fact, trade between a Good aligned country and an Evil aligned country is tantamount to allowing evil to hold sway over good in some form or another.
(*I'm not an expert on modern real world political definitions such as "capitalism" as others here may actually know more, but I'm guessing that if a capitalistic nation in D&D were to exist, it would trade with any nation that proved profitable.)
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