XBox: D&D Heroes - Where is the Kingdom of Baele?

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Havard
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XBox: D&D Heroes - Where is the Kingdom of Baele?

Post by Havard » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:55 pm

Dungeons & Dragons: Heroes was a video game for XBox released in 2003. The game is set in the "Kingdom of Baele".

150 years ago, Kaedin the wizard, was defeated by a group of heroes. Now he has been ressurrected and he is after the Planar Gems.

The game also has some references to Pelor and Moradin. Lidda the Halfling also appears at one point. Does this mean that the game is set in Greyhawk? Or perhaps in New Koratia, the world from the TH Lain novels?

Named locations:
Castle Baele
Baele Crypts
Baele Swamps
Island of Axion
Kaedin's Flying Castle

Planar Locations*
The Yuan-Ti Wilds (Other Plane?)
Bone Necropolis (Other Plane?)
The Metalworks (Other Plane?)
The Frostbound (Other Plane?)
The Shadow Keep (Other Plane?)
*=These locations are accessed through portals and are most likely other planes.

Organizations:
Seven Stars Crew (Thieves Guild)
Crimson Scar Gang (Thieves Guild)
Clerics of Pelor (Church)
Dwarven Clerics of Moradin (Church)
Yuan-Ti Clerics of Obad-Hai (Church)

Characters:
Kaedin: Evil (Tiefling?) Wizard
Lidda: Halfling Rogue
Vasak: Caretaker of the Baele Crypts

Items
Ankh of Erenyre
Soul Shards
Planar Gems
Jeweled Scepters (4)

See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxxwHlhYnug

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Last edited by Havard on Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: XBox: D&D Heroes - Where is the Kingdom of Baele?

Post by ripvanwormer » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:47 am

I've never heard of it. If there are yuan-ti, maybe it can be shoehorned into Hepmonaland.

I'm sort of willing to pretend that New Koratia is part of the same continent as Aquaria at this point.

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Re: XBox: D&D Heroes - Where is the Kingdom of Baele?

Post by Havard » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:43 am

ripvanwormer wrote:I've never heard of it. If there are yuan-ti, maybe it can be shoehorned into Hepmonaland.


As it turns out unfortunately, the Yuan-ti Wilds is another of the locations that needs to be reached from Castle Baele through a portal.
I'm sort of willing to pretend that New Koratia is part of the same continent as Aquaria at this point.
The only thing that connects Baele to New Koratia is the presence of Lidda, but IMHO the iconics could probably show up on multiple worlds.

I think that the fact that New Koratia, Greyhawk and Baele all share the same pantheon of Gods and similar monsters etc does suggest that the settings are in some way connected, even if not necessarily on the same planet.

Would there be room for them in the Chainmail/Sundered Empire at all?

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Re: XBox: D&D Heroes - Where is the Kingdom of Baele?

Post by Icarus » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:20 am

Havard wrote: ...The only thing that connects Baele to New Koratia is the presence of Lidda, but IMHO the iconics could probably show up on multiple worlds.

I think that the fact that New Koratia, Greyhawk and Baele all share the same pantheon of Gods and similar monsters etc does suggest that the settings are in some way connected, even if not necessarily on the same planet.

Would there be room for them in the Chainmail/Sundered Empire at all?
well, there's *certainly* room for them in the Sumdered Empire. The only real catch is wheretoplace Baele. Obviously; that's the question this thread poses. It's kind of difficult, since I haven't played the game, and there's not really enough info to go on, even I that half-hour-long video.

There's actually a lot of things that are to the south of the desert in Western Oerik, according to the text, at any rate. But, there's never really been much info, other than there's stuff "beyond the desert".
There's also the Free Cities, but, I tend to think that if there were a Kingdom there, we'd know about it. Plus, that's a rather large implied territory to squish amidst a unclog independent cities.
...
One interesting thing to me, is that the story is is lat to that of Ahmut. Although, it was the Spear of Stratis that resurrected him, there was the Cult of the Red Scythe who tried to control him, and he's hell-bent on destroying the kingdom he fought against all those years ago. ... In the Sundered Empire, that is the Ravillan faction.
...
But, as Havard says, the key connection, apparently, is Lidda. There's not much to go on, otherwise.
While the gods are used, they're also use in worlds other than Greyhawk. So too, can the iconics be used elsewhere.

If there were even one thing that tied something to Greyhawk, I would say they're linked and put them in the same world. But, otherwise, I think that I would have to presume that it's just an alternate Prime Material.
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Re: XBox: D&D Heroes - Where is the Kingdom of Baele?

Post by night_druid » Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:21 pm

Aside from a couple of name-drops, nothing strikes me as particularly "Greyhawk" about that list. They probably just grabbed some GH nouns and applied them to an unrelated game so they could put the D&D label on it.
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Re: XBox: D&D Heroes - Where is the Kingdom of Baele?

Post by ripvanwormer » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:33 pm

Yuan-ti worshipers of Obad-hai would be interesting. Normally they worship demon gods and the like, but Obad-hai is a neutral patron of druids. These yuan-ti might be more like savage eco-terrorists, striking against humanity for encroaching upon their pristine wilderness of their domain.

If you're a completist who really wants to work this game into Oerth somehow, I'd say the easiest solution would just be to say that Baele was an older name for Nyrond (or whatever canon kingdom you choose). Or maybe the game takes place in the future!

If you assume Oerth has a hollow interior like Mystara does, perhaps Baele is there. You might be able to fit it on Ginsel in Greyspace, too.

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Re: XBox: D&D Heroes - Where is the Kingdom of Baele?

Post by Havard » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:45 am

ripvanwormer wrote:Yuan-ti worshipers of Obad-hai would be interesting. Normally they worship demon gods and the like, but Obad-hai is a neutral patron of druids. These yuan-ti might be more like savage eco-terrorists, striking against humanity for encroaching upon their pristine wilderness of their domain.

If you're a completist who really wants to work this game into Oerth somehow, I'd say the easiest solution would just be to say that Baele was an older name for Nyrond (or whatever canon kingdom you choose). Or maybe the game takes place in the future!

If you assume Oerth has a hollow interior like Mystara does, perhaps Baele is there. You might be able to fit it on Ginsel in Greyspace, too.
I like the first theory of incorporating this into Nyrond. I could see the computer game quite easily being reworked into an RPG scenario. Where to put it in the timeline, whether in the future or the past is another question of course. :)

The Yuan-Ti storyline in the game seems to involve an internal conflict between the Obad-Hai cult and the regular demon-worshipping Yuan-Ti. In the game you are able to play one group against the other and the Obad-Hai worshippers appear to be rather sympathetic, though I still think you could run with the eco-terrorist idea in future scenarios based on this game.

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Re: XBox: D&D Heroes - Where is the Kingdom of Baele?

Post by Big Mac » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:37 am

I watched the entire video, and didn't find most of it useful. The main thing I took from the video, was in the briefing. Some evil dude was around 150 years ago, and four heroes killed him. Then at the start of the game, a misguided cleric and their minions brought the evil dude back to life, thinking they could control said evil dude and take his powers.

The cleric who brought the evil dude was wrong. He underestimated the evil dude and him and everyone with him were slaughtered.

Then a couple of dwarves spoke about the four heroes from 150 years ago and said that they would be the only ones who could defeat the evil dude. They brought back one of the heroes from 150 years back, told him about the recent return of the evil dude and left him to get on with it.
ripvanwormer wrote:I'm sort of willing to pretend that New Koratia is part of the same continent as Aquaria at this point.
The two monasteries, mentioned in The Bloody Eye would probably need to be in places that you can (eventually) walk to from the territory of the Snow Barbarians, in order for Jozan to be able to seek out Augustin Calmet.
Havard wrote:The only thing that connects Baele to New Koratia is the presence of Lidda, but IMHO the iconics could probably show up on multiple worlds.
It isn't just Lidda mentioned in this game. The list of items in shops includes magic items named after Jozan and Tordek.
Havard wrote:I think that the fact that New Koratia, Greyhawk and Baele all share the same pantheon of Gods and similar monsters etc does suggest that the settings are in some way connected, even if not necessarily on the same planet.

Would there be room for them in the Chainmail/Sundered Empire at all?
We have already established that New Koratia is on the same planet as Greyhawk (and Chainmail). :)
Icarus wrote:
Havard wrote:Would there be room for them in the Chainmail/Sundered Empire at all?
well, there's *certainly* room for them in the Sumdered Empire. The only real catch is wheretoplace Baele. Obviously; that's the question this thread poses. It's kind of difficult, since I haven't played the game, and there's not really enough info to go on, even I that half-hour-long video.

There's actually a lot of things that are to the south of the desert in Western Oerik, according to the text, at any rate. But, there's never really been much info, other than there's stuff "beyond the desert".
There's also the Free Cities, but, I tend to think that if there were a Kingdom there, we'd know about it. Plus, that's a rather large implied territory to squish amidst a unclog independent cities.
...
One interesting thing to me, is that the story is is lat to that of Ahmut. Although, it was the Spear of Stratis that resurrected him, there was the Cult of the Red Scythe who tried to control him, and he's hell-bent on destroying the kingdom he fought against all those years ago. ... In the Sundered Empire, that is the Ravillan faction.
I don't think I've seen anything in the T H Lain novels or the web content suggesting that any of the Iconics made it out as far as the Sundered Empire.

The big tie in is that the monastery in the territory of the Snow Barbarians divided it's cash into two chunks, in order to set up two new monasteries far away, and that Jozan went looking for the person who was supposed to be setting up one of the monasteries. From what I can tell (there are no stats, but spells are mentioned) he starts off as a fairly low-level character. The idea of an Iconic character being able to travel all the way from the Kingdom of the Schnai, through a ton of undocumented lands in the middle of Oerik to get to the Sundered Empire seems a bit over the top.

And given that the Sundered Empire has strong themes, like the Death of Stratis, Stratis's curse and the battle for someone to obtain his magic items and become a new god of war, I would expect some of those themes to be included in the T H Lain novels. They are not. So while it isn't impossible that the Iconics have travelled between the Flanaess and the Sundered Empire, I don't think that is so likely. I think it is much more likely that the Iconics have stuck closer to the Flanaess.

Perhaps I should start up another topic, to discuss "sightings of the Iconics" so that we can work out all the locations they have been seen in (and all of the products they are mentioned in). :)
Icarus wrote:But, as Havard says, the key connection, apparently, is Lidda. There's not much to go on, otherwise.
While the gods are used, they're also use in worlds other than Greyhawk. So too, can the iconics be used elsewhere.

If there were even one thing that tied something to Greyhawk, I would say they're linked and put them in the same world. But, otherwise, I think that I would have to presume that it's just an alternate Prime Material.
I'm not sure where this logic of "the Greyhawk gods and the Iconics can be used on other worlds" came from.

I think it is much more likely that Wizards of the Coast put out products with poor-quality world building and that Greyhawk connections were put into certain product lines without an explanation to back them up.

I believe that Chris Pramas said that he got asked to pull Chainmail out of Greyhawk...and then asked to put it back in. The references to Greyhawk come in one of the later T H Lain novels, so I suspect that the authors were told to play down any Greyhawk connection and that one only got in, because it was critical to the back-story of the novel.

I see people complaining that it is "too hard to get into Forgotten Realms" because there are a lot of books to learn about. People complain that players might know more about the world than gamemaster's and disrupt games. I've not seen that myself, but I've heard people complaining about it. So maybe, in the early 3e Era, somebody decided that they didn't want people stressing about a "Greyhawk buy in" and that they should purge as many mentions of the connections to Greyhawk as possible. :?

I might be totally wrong there, but they certainly took the Greyhawk logo off of the novel Nightwatch, and that is set in the City of Greyhawk. And the 5e adventures set in Forgotten Realms are all being released without Forgotten Realms logos on them. As someone who likes the D&D rules, but who loves the settings, I find this sort of thing pretty disappointing. :roll:

But I think it is possible that the D&D Heroes design team might have gone through a similar process and been told to "make it generic enough that everyone would buy it". Perhaps if we knew when it was made, relative to Chainmail and the T H Lain novels, we could see if it came out before or after Chainmail and New Koratia both "came out of the closet" and "admitted" they were part of Greyhawk.
night_druid wrote:Aside from a couple of name-drops, nothing strikes me as particularly "Greyhawk" about that list. They probably just grabbed some GH nouns and applied them to an unrelated game so they could put the D&D label on it.
You are probably right there.

When I watched the video and the character levelled up, they mentioned "Feats" but none of the Feats had names like the 3e Feats. So I don't think this game is anything like Dungeons & Dragons, let alone Greyhawk.

Having said that, there is a big map built into the game. If there is a wiki out there about it, I think that someone could probably raid it and the plot and and build a tabletop campaign around it. With the Iconic characters getting mentioned, I personally would say that it would be far more logical to stick the Kingdom of Baele on Greyhawk than on any other D&D world.
Last edited by Big Mac on Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: XBox: D&D Heroes - Where is the Kingdom of Baele?

Post by Big Mac » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:46 am

Havard wrote:150 years ago, Kaedin the wizard, was defeated by a group of heroes. Now he has been ressurrected and he is after the Planar Gems.
Hang on, the plot of Dungeons & Dragons Heroes seems a bit familar:
Dungeons & Dragons: Heros, plot section at Wikipedia wrote:One hundred and fifty years before the present, the wizard Kaedin had opened four portals leading to different planes of existence. He harnessed power of the four planes to create "Planar Gems," each with the same power as the planes they came from.
And four heroes that must protect us from those Planar Gems? I have seen that plot before! :o
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