[Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Discuss Tal'dorei, Wildermount and other lands in Matthew Mercer's Exandria world, as it relates to pen & paper RPGs, here.
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[Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Big Mac »

I'm a bit confused by the fact that Green Ronin published a Critical Role: Tal'dorei Campaign Setting and we now are getting a new book that Amazon referrs to as Dungeons & Dragons Explorer's Guide to Wildemount (Critical Role Campaign Setting and Adventure Book): 1. (I have no idea why they added the one.)

I'm not an expert on Critical Role. Are Tal'dorei and Wildermount on the same planet (like Ansalon and Taladas or Faerûn and Maztica)?

Are Green Ronin going to carry on publishing content (like adventures) for Tal'dorei or have they sold the campaign setting to Wizards of the Coast?

And if Tal'dorei has been sold to Wizards of the Coast, what is the deal with the Critical Role: Tal'dorei Campaign Setting book? Will Green Ronin make as many additional printings as they need to? Is that book going to go out of print? Is there going to be a new edition from WotC?

Or is the entire thing with the Wildermount book something like Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (where the book was actually written by Green Ronin and Wizards of the Coast, and WotC did the distribution?
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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by night_druid »

To my understanding, Tal'dorel and Wildermount are different continents, same planet. It appears Green Ronin's contract ran out the day before Wildermount was announced. I guess it may have been a gentlemen's agreement between the three parties; given how much WotC has farmed out to GR, I have to imagine they worked something out under the table so WotC could publish Wildermount without trouble. Probably something like "Hey GR, you let us have Wildermount, we'll let you tackle the 5e version of <insert some classic 1e module series here>".
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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Big Mac »

night_druid wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:20 pm
To my understanding, Tal'dorel and Wildermount are different continents, same planet. It appears Green Ronin's contract ran out the day before Wildermount was announced.
Oh. So support for Tal'dorei might be dead then. :(

(Unless WotC is going to publish more Critical Role books. I did see that number "1" was added.)
night_druid wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:20 pm
I guess it may have been a gentlemen's agreement between the three parties; given how much WotC has farmed out to GR, I have to imagine they worked something out under the table so WotC could publish Wildermount without trouble. Probably something like "Hey GR, you let us have Wildermount, we'll let you tackle the 5e version of <insert some classic 1e module series here>".
Could be, couldn't it. WotC seem to be farming stuff out to Kobold Press too. :)

I wonder if Matthew Mercer has sold Wildermount to WotC or just rented it to them.

I've heard that Matthew used the Nentir Vale gods in his show (and WotC own them) but if WotC don't "own" the Critical Role planet, we might not see support for integrating the planet with Planescape and Spelljammer.
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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by MagusZeal »

I'm guessing that what's happening is since CR is so popular, much like Acquisitions Inc they've decided to add it to the roster of official worlds/organizations. As for the gods the game started in Pathfinder and moved to 5e for ease of game play on stream. Since it was a homebrew setting Mercer pulled from different settings to get an interesting take for his pantheon. So officially some of the gods are reskinned in the setting book to be different, but on stream they still use the original names.

As for the locations Tal'dorel was the setting for the first campaign and Wildermount is the second campaign's setting. The big difference between the two is the first is fairly genaric because the game started as a birthday gift to I think Liam, and the group decided to continue it so it had zero prep and Mercer was laying track as it went. While Wildermount he actually got some time to start prepping it before they started up, so it has a much more unique feel to it.

Personally the big question is what exactly is the deal WoC and Mercer have on the setting, I'm betting there will be more books, CR is extremely popular, and has done a lot of good for the hobby.

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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Havard »

Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:33 pm
I wonder if Matthew Mercer has sold Wildermount to WotC or just rented it to them.
I would like to know this too. Personally I would find it very surprising if WotC did not buy the rights to all of the IP related to the CR setting and characters if not CR in its entirety. I can understand getting into a lisencing deal for Star Wars, Middle-earth or even the Wheel of Time series, but for a YouTube show? It would be much better for them to own all of the setting IP for later use.
I've heard that Matthew used the Nentir Vale gods in his show (and WotC own them) but if WotC don't "own" the Critical Role planet, we might not see support for integrating the planet with Planescape and Spelljammer.
Mercer will of course be allowed to use any D&D related IP for his YouTube show, but if he wanted to publish material for the setting outside of WotC that would require some kind of deal with WotC over some of that IP. Not sure if the Tal'Dorei book referenced those Gods?

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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Big Mac »

MagusZeal wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:58 pm
I'm guessing that what's happening is since CR is so popular, much like Acquisitions Inc they've decided to add it to the roster of official worlds/organizations.
I'll be very interested to see how official/unofficial Critical Role will become.

There have been several D&D books covering campaign settings that were not included in the D&D Multiverse. The ones I can think of are Wilderlands, Conan, Lankhmar, Kingdoms of Kalamar and Warcraft RPG. I can easily imagine Tal'dorei and Wildemount falling into that cateogory too.

I just saw you have been AFP (away from PIazza) for a while. Thanks for coming back/delurking to help me and welcome back to The Piazza!

You might want to pop over to Ashtagon's Introduce yourself here topic and tell people a bit about yourself and the things you like to discuss.
MagusZeal wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:58 pm
As for the gods the game started in Pathfinder and moved to 5e for ease of game play on stream. Since it was a homebrew setting Mercer pulled from different settings to get an interesting take for his pantheon. So officially some of the gods are reskinned in the setting book to be different, but on stream they still use the original names.
I heard that Critical Role started off as a Pathfinder thing.

I had assumed that the people bankrolling the show had asked for Matthew Mercer to use 5e rules...but I am not sure Wizards of the Coast was not broadcasting it back then. So maybe that logic doesn't hold up. :?

I see what you mean about reskinning things for a book. I know that the Green Races product line got into trouble for using things that TSR owned.
MagusZeal wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:58 pm
As for the locations Tal'dorel was the setting for the first campaign and Wildermount is the second campaign's setting. The big difference between the two is the first is fairly genaric because the game started as a birthday gift to I think Liam, and the group decided to continue it so it had zero prep and Mercer was laying track as it went. While Wildermount he actually got some time to start prepping it before they started up, so it has a much more unique feel to it.
Aha!

So Tal'dorei was pretty much a one-shot fun thing...that turned into a regular thing...that turned into a live streamed thing...that turned into a RPG book...that turned into a slightly different "Critical Role: The Next Generation" thing?

I wonder if Matthew Mercer is going to be retconning any of the details in the Tal'dorei book, with the new book. :?
MagusZeal wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:58 pm
Personally the big question is what exactly is the deal WoC and Mercer have on the setting, I'm betting there will be more books, CR is extremely popular, and has done a lot of good for the hobby.
I would have thought there would be more books.

I'm not sure how many books WotC will want to put out. They seem to be quite slow and meticulous these days.

Maybe Matthew Mercer will go back to Green Ronin later on...or run a Kickstarter. :?
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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Big Mac »

Havard wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:18 pm
Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:33 pm
I wonder if Matthew Mercer has sold Wildermount to WotC or just rented it to them.
I would like to know this too. Personally I would find it very surprising if WotC did not buy the rights to all of the IP related to the CR setting and characters if not CR in its entirety. I can understand getting into a lisencing deal for Star Wars, Middle-earth or even the Wheel of Time series, but for a YouTube show? It would be much better for them to own all of the setting IP for later use.
Maybe the credits for the book explain who owns what.

But, I thought I heard that Critical Role had a massive Kickstarter for lots of money. So Matthew Mercer may well be in a strong position where he does not need to sell Critical Role to WotC in order to get it published.
Havard wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:18 pm
Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:33 pm
I've heard that Matthew used the Nentir Vale gods in his show (and WotC own them) but if WotC don't "own" the Critical Role planet, we might not see support for integrating the planet with Planescape and Spelljammer.
Mercer will of course be allowed to use any D&D related IP for his YouTube show, but if he wanted to publish material for the setting outside of WotC that would require some kind of deal with WotC over some of that IP. Not sure if the Tal'Dorei book referenced those Gods?
Good point.

Maybe if I can find some things in the Tal'dorei book that link in with D&D (or Pathfinder) that let us know what has been used to build Critical Role stuff.

Having said that Richard Green did a pretty good job of cleaning out all the Al-Qadim homebrew and replacing it with new Parsantium stuff.
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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by agathokles »

Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:05 pm
But, I thought I heard that Critical Role had a massive Kickstarter for lots of money. So Matthew Mercer may well be in a strong position where he does not need to sell Critical Role to WotC in order to get it published.
Well, all this thread is about the previous book, which was published without WotC...

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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Dragonhelm »

Here's how the continents of Exandria were explained to me:

"Exandria is the world/planet. Taldorei, Wildmount, Issylra, The Shattered Teeth, and Marquet are the continents on said planet."
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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Tim Baker »

Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:05 pm
I thought I heard that Critical Role had a massive Kickstarter for lots of money. So Matthew Mercer may well be in a strong position where he does not need to sell Critical Role to WotC in order to get it published.
Yes, the Critical Role animated series, The Legend of Vox Machina, raised $11.4M on Kickstarter. It was so successful, Amazon Video picked up the distribution rights for the first season, and then bankrolled a second season.

While it might not operate at the level of Star Wars intellectual property, I would be surprised if Matt Mercer sold the right to WotC. Perhaps he sold the rights to publish additional RPG products beyond just Wildemount, but he'd likely want to hold onto control of the IP.
Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:05 pm
Maybe if I can find some things in the Tal'dorei book that link in with D&D (or Pathfinder) that let us know what has been used to build Critical Role stuff.
I know this was mentioned in another thread, but in case anyone is reading this one without having seen that other discussion, it was recently revealed that Wildemount is using the names of the 4th Edition Dawn War deities. The only exception is the Pathfinder goddess, Sarenrae, who is called "Rae" to avoid IP issues.

In the Tal'dorei Campaign Setting, the same deities are described, but they're given more generic names, such as "The Allhammer," "The Dawnfather," and "The Everlight" to avoid using WotC/Paizo IP.

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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Big Mac »

agathokles wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:02 pm
Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:05 pm
But, I thought I heard that Critical Role had a massive Kickstarter for lots of money. So Matthew Mercer may well be in a strong position where he does not need to sell Critical Role to WotC in order to get it published.
Well, all this thread is about the previous book, which was published without WotC...
:)

Well I was thinking that if WotC do not "own" Crtitical Role now, that Matthew Mercer could go back to Green Ronin and publish more Tal'dorei products (like adventures) via them.
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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Big Mac »

Dragonhelm wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:20 pm
Here's how the continents of Exandria were explained to me:

"Exandria is the world/planet. Taldorei, Wildmount, Issylra, The Shattered Teeth, and Marquet are the continents on said planet."
But is Tal'dorei the "Ansalon" Exandria and Wildemount the "Taladas" of Exandria? :)
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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Big Mac »

Tim Baker wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:03 pm
Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:05 pm
I thought I heard that Critical Role had a massive Kickstarter for lots of money. So Matthew Mercer may well be in a strong position where he does not need to sell Critical Role to WotC in order to get it published.
Yes, the Critical Role animated series, The Legend of Vox Machina, raised $11.4M on Kickstarter. It was so successful, Amazon Video picked up the distribution rights for the first season, and then bankrolled a second season.

While it might not operate at the level of Star Wars intellectual property, I would be surprised if Matt Mercer sold the right to WotC. Perhaps he sold the rights to publish additional RPG products beyond just Wildemount, but he'd likely want to hold onto control of the IP.
Maybe there will be some more Critical Role products from Wizards of the Coast.

But if Critters paid over $11 milion USD for an animated series, I would have thought that Matthew Mercer could be doing deals for things like poster maps and miniatures, that don't necessarily need to go via WotC.

That's where I was wondering if he might be going back to Green Ronin, at some point.
Tim Baker wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:03 pm
Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:05 pm
Maybe if I can find some things in the Tal'dorei book that link in with D&D (or Pathfinder) that let us know what has been used to build Critical Role stuff.
I know this was mentioned in another thread, but in case anyone is reading this one without having seen that other discussion, it was recently revealed that Wildemount is using the names of the 4th Edition Dawn War deities. The only exception is the Pathfinder goddess, Sarenrae, who is called "Rae" to avoid IP issues.

In the Tal'dorei Campaign Setting, the same deities are described, but they're given more generic names, such as "The Allhammer," "The Dawnfather," and "The Everlight" to avoid using WotC/Paizo IP.
Hmm. I wonder if this new book would allow Matthew Mercer to take those names back to a second Tal'dorei book by Green Ronin...or if he would have to continue to use the IP-neutral names from the Green Ronin book.
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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Tim Baker »

Big Mac wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:45 pm
Tim Baker wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:03 pm
it was recently revealed that Wildemount is using the names of the 4th Edition Dawn War deities. The only exception is the Pathfinder goddess, Sarenrae, who is called "Rae" to avoid IP issues.

In the Tal'dorei Campaign Setting, the same deities are described, but they're given more generic names, such as "The Allhammer," "The Dawnfather," and "The Everlight" to avoid using WotC/Paizo IP.
Hmm. I wonder if this new book would allow Matthew Mercer to take those names back to a second Tal'dorei book by Green Ronin...or if he would have to continue to use the IP-neutral names from the Green Ronin book.
I suspect WotC holds the rights to their Dawn War pantheon deity names. Those rights allow the deities to have their "proper" names in the Wildemount book, since it's WotC's book. But any book published by Green Ronin, in the past or the future, wouldn't have the rights to the WotC IP. The exception would be if Green Ronin or Matt Mercer negotiated a licensing agreement. That would be possible, but with the deity "nicknames" being fairly well understood by the community (they're listed in the CR wiki, for example), I suspect it wouldn't make financial sense for Green Ronin, even if WotC was willing. But I'm no expert in this subject – it's just my speculation.

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Re: [Critical Role][Tal'dorei] Is Green Ronin still supporting Tal'dorei?

Post by Tim Baker »

Big Mac wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:18 am
But is Tal'dorei the "Ansalon" Exandria and Wildemount the "Taladas" of Exandria? :)
That's a very interesting question. Often, what comes first is what has the staying power. But Wildemount has the marketing power of WotC and official D&D branding. On the other hand, Tal'Dorei is going to be featured in two seasons of an Amazon Prime animated series. Only time will tell, I suppose. Still, it might make an interesting poll topic.

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