[5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

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Havard
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[5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by Havard »

How would you handle the Mariner Class from the 2e Tales of the Lance Boxed set, using D&D 5E rules?

I'm thinking maybe just use a Ranger with the Sailor background?

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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by agathokles »

The Sailor background covers almost everything in the Mariner class, except for Acrobatics and Stealth, which correspond to the AD&D2e Tumbling proficiency and HS and MS.
Other characteristics include: no metal armor, can use the cutlass (probably mapped to a scimitar in 5e).
This creates a bit of a problem, since the Ranger has access to all but Acrobatics, the Rogue cannot use the cutlass, and the Fighter has no access to Stealth, but it's not a major issue since you can get the missing skill with a feat or by multiclassing (or by using the variant human to get an extra skill).
A Fighter with a single Ranger level resembles the original class the most (i.e., no spells, mostly a Fighter with thieving skills), but any combination might work.

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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by Havard »

agathokles wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:05 pm
The Sailor background covers almost everything in the Mariner class, except for Acrobatics and Stealth, which correspond to the AD&D2e Tumbling proficiency and HS and MS.
Other characteristics include: no metal armor, can use the cutlass (probably mapped to a scimitar in 5e).
This creates a bit of a problem, since the Ranger has access to all but Acrobatics, the Rogue cannot use the cutlass, and the Fighter has no access to Stealth, but it's not a major issue since you can get the missing skill with a feat or by multiclassing (or by using the variant human to get an extra skill).
A Fighter with a single Ranger level resembles the original class the most (i.e., no spells, mostly a Fighter with thieving skills), but any combination might work.
That is a really good breaking down of things. Could this be worth introducing a new Subclass for?

If so, would you make it a Rogue subclass or a Ranger one?

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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by agathokles »

Havard wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:32 pm
That is a really good breaking down of things. Could this be worth introducing a new Subclass for?

If so, would you make it a Rogue subclass or a Ranger one?
Honestly, I've only been looking at 5e for the last month or so. I'd be wary of creating new subclasses -- it doesn't seem that straightforward.
But, if I had to, I'd probably go for Rogue. There's very little in the Ranger that is useful for the Mariner (although once more a Ranger multiclass dip would give the Rogue some useful/flavorful bits, including the coast favored terrain and martial weapons proficiency).

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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by pawsplay »

I'd probably use a Fighter rather than a Ranger. There isn't anything about a 1st level Ranger's abilities I would particularly want. Whereas taking Duelist at 1st level would right away be good for that cutlass (scimitar).

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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by Dragonhelm »

One lesson I learned about game design in the 3e days is that you should go for the spirit of the class rather than a straight 1 to 1 conversion.

So if we thematically look at the mariner from 2nd and 3rd editions, you see a character who might be part rogue or part fighter. He's got some acrobatic abilities, is a good swimmer, and is proficient in a blade like a cutlass, scimitar, or rapier.

Multiclassing and feat choices can help out too.

Remember, too, that this is D&D. A seafaring character could be any number of themes. He could be the ship's doctor (cleric), the ship's wizard, a ranger who is a bit of an island-hopper, or what have you. Many mariners would be rogues (swashbucklers!) or fighters, but any number of classes could be a mariner-style character.

Remember, stick with the themes and figure out how to build your concept in the rules edition that you're wanting to use. In this case, no need for a new class or subclass.
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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by Tim Baker »

The Seas of Vodari from Tribality is a 5e setting book that was well designed. After a successful Kickstarter, it went through extensive playtesting, so it feels more balanced than some other third-party products.

It features a corsair sub-class for the fighter. They exchange heavy armor for medium armor and a new mechanical resource called Fortuna Dice, which represents their reliance upon the luck of the tradewinds to protect them. They can Dash or Disengage as a bonus action, which is very rogue-like. Versatile weapons can be used as finesse weapons, encouraging high-Dexterity corsairs.

While the Sailor background doesn't grant Stealth, if you choose Athletics or Perception from your class skill proficiencies, then you could use the swap one of the Sailor skill proficiencies for Stealth.

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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by pawsplay »

I don't normally suggest homebrewing a class for just a middle of the road concept, but this is a candidate for something that is hard to do with the existing choices.

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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by Dragonhelm »

pawsplay wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:26 pm
I don't normally suggest homebrewing a class for just a middle of the road concept, but this is a candidate for something that is hard to do with the existing choices.
Why would it be hard to do?
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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by pawsplay »

Dragonhelm wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:45 am
pawsplay wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:26 pm
I don't normally suggest homebrewing a class for just a middle of the road concept, but this is a candidate for something that is hard to do with the existing choices.
Why would it be hard to do?
Rangers are spellcasters, fighters don't get a lot of environment/exploration features, rogues have maybe the right melee abilities but get thematically unrelated features. So a lightly armored character who is adept at exploration and uses non-magical features to do it is not something immediately supported by the existing options.

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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by Havard »

pawsplay wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:34 pm
Dragonhelm wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:45 am
pawsplay wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:26 pm
I don't normally suggest homebrewing a class for just a middle of the road concept, but this is a candidate for something that is hard to do with the existing choices.
Why would it be hard to do?
Rangers are spellcasters, fighters don't get a lot of environment/exploration features, rogues have maybe the right melee abilities but get thematically unrelated features. So a lightly armored character who is adept at exploration and uses non-magical features to do it is not something immediately supported by the existing options.
It boils down to what you think is most important about Mariners. I also think it is worth asking what the intention behind the design of the class originally might have been.

Duplicating the exact abilities of a class from an older edition (in this case 2e) will never work anyway.

I would probably make it a Rogue subclass, although a Fighter subclass might be interesting too.

A Ranger Subclass would be very different because of the spells, but I do like the idea of a sea based Ranger.

-Havard

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Re: [5E] Dragonlance Mariner Class?

Post by pawsplay »

If the intended class has sneak attack, then Rogue, otherwise Fighter. Fighter is going to have issues with not having as many skills, and some of their proficiencies going unused, and their archetype not kicking in until 3rd level.

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