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Sharing a body with Fistandantilus

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:22 pm
by Havard
Did the whole story where Raistlin has to pass the Test ever feature in any of the modules? How would you handle in-game a situation where a PC has to share his body with that of Fistandantilus?* I might have a similar situation coming up in my 5E camapign in the near future.

*=I guess that is just one interpretation of what happened in the novels.

-Havard

Re: Sharing a body with Fistandantilus

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:35 pm
by Falconer
There is a gamebook called The Soulforge (Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Adventure Gamebook 4), by Terry Phillips. It’s a solo game but it uses real AD&D mechanics. I have long thought it could easily be adapted to a proper module, but since the Test is for a single player it might as well be played as-is (or maybe a DM with just a little prep could run it as a one-on-one, changing things as he thought necessary). I don’t remember if it addresses the Fistandantilus issue, though.

I certainly understood Chronicles to imply that Raistlin let his body get taken over by Fistandantilus’s soul (provisionally in the Test; finalized in the Silvanesti Dream), but I wanna say Weis has veered away from this interpretation over the years and maybe even overwritten it (I haven’t actually ever read Dragons of an Hourglass Mage).

Re: Sharing a body with Fistandantilus

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:49 am
by Cthulhudrew
It's interesting; when I first read the Legends trilogy, and we found out that Raistlin killed Fistandantilus in the past, my interpretation was that "Fistandantilus" was actually Raistlin himself, empowering himself from the past with the knowledge and information that he would need to go back in time in the first place, and that the real tragedy of Raistlin therefore was that he had created a causality loop and thus could never have hoped to succeed in overthrowing Takhisis.

I realized in retrospect, as I read other DL novels and products, that that wasn't the author's intent at all- that the Fistandantilus that was killed by Raistlin was in fact the one that went on to share his knowledge with the twin in the far future. And of course, that concept was cemented by later authors (such as Doug Niles) who definitively made it the case.

I still prefer my original idea, though. (If only because it makes little sense that Fistandantilus essentially created his own causality loop- and his own death- by transferring his spirit to the future to his murderer.)

Anyway, a little OT. :)

Re: Sharing a body with Fistandantilus

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:04 am
by ripvanwormer
From Mists of Krynn:
Fistandantilus, who had slain two entire armies by accident, was near to being conquered by old age. The thought tormented him, and to preserve his power, he sent his spirit to strange planes. He became a lich, searching for the body of a new magician who could achieve his dream. So it was that Raistlin encountered him during the Test. The ambitious young wizard traded part of his own self for traces of Fistandantilus's power. Raistlin became diseased and morally foul. In return, Fistandantilus bolstered Raistlin's spells and provided help at unexpected times. Eventually, Raistlin returned through time to fight him; the two struggled to inhabit each other's bodies, and Raistlin won. Or so we assume. For history repeated itself, and Raistlin/Fistandantilus fought in the Dwarfgate Wars again and lost himself in the Abyss, perhaps forever.

Re: Sharing a body with Fistandantilus

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:04 am
by Big Mac
There is actually a spellcaster in The Taladas Trilogy who tries to take over the body of a character with more success than Fistandantilus. So if you want to try to infer some game rules for this, you could read those books and try to extract facts and compare them to what is written about Fistandantilus.

The question is: Would you want to have a long-dead spellcaster take over the body of one of your player characters? Or would you want them to take over the body of an NPC who was formerly friendly to the PCs?

If your dead-NPC takes over the body of a PC are you going to run that PC as GM NPC? Or are you going to sit down with the PC between sessions and see if you can get them to play the evil NPC who has taken over the body of their character?

Do you think your players would be up to the job of also playing the big bad evil guy who is trying to kill their PC's soul?

Re: Sharing a body with Fistandantilus

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:54 am
by Havard
Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:04 am
There is actually a spellcaster in The Taladas Trilogy who tries to take over the body of a character with more success than Fistandantilus. So if you want to try to infer some game rules for this, you could read those books and try to extract facts and compare them to what is written about Fistandantilus.

The question is: Would you want to have a long-dead spellcaster take over the body of one of your player characters? Or would you want them to take over the body of an NPC who was formerly friendly to the PCs?

If your dead-NPC takes over the body of a PC are you going to run that PC as GM NPC? Or are you going to sit down with the PC between sessions and see if you can get them to play the evil NPC who has taken over the body of their character?

Do you think your players would be up to the job of also playing the big bad evil guy who is trying to kill their PC's soul?
Im thinking about allow the player to play a character whose body is fought over by two souls. While the second soul isn't necessarily as evil as Fistandantilus, the soul IMC is mentally unstable and seeking complete control of the body. I think this struggle could be interesting to play out at least for a time. Perhaps the foreign soul could eventually be defeated or purged from the body. :twisted:

-Havard

Re: Sharing a body with Fistandantilus

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:17 pm
by Big Mac
Havard wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:54 am
Big Mac wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:04 am
There is actually a spellcaster in The Taladas Trilogy who tries to take over the body of a character with more success than Fistandantilus. So if you want to try to infer some game rules for this, you could read those books and try to extract facts and compare them to what is written about Fistandantilus.

The question is: Would you want to have a long-dead spellcaster take over the body of one of your player characters? Or would you want them to take over the body of an NPC who was formerly friendly to the PCs?

If your dead-NPC takes over the body of a PC are you going to run that PC as GM NPC? Or are you going to sit down with the PC between sessions and see if you can get them to play the evil NPC who has taken over the body of their character?

Do you think your players would be up to the job of also playing the big bad evil guy who is trying to kill their PC's soul?
Im thinking about allow the player to play a character whose body is fought over by two souls. While the second soul isn't necessarily as evil as Fistandantilus, the soul IMC is mentally unstable and seeking complete control of the body. I think this struggle could be interesting to play out at least for a time. Perhaps the foreign soul could eventually be defeated or purged from the body. :twisted:
Maybe you could use the tables in Hero Builder's Guidebook (or something similar) and get your player to randomly generate the history of the NPC for you. :P

Re: Sharing a body with Fistandantilus

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:18 pm
by Cthulhudrew
If your player is up to playing both parts, I think it could be kind of cool to allow them to do it. Maybe have some elements built into the campaign that would allow one or the other "soul" to eventually take complete control. Possibly just various rolls by each over time for dominance (I'm thinking something like the magic sword Ego system), or the character learns of some device that can stabilize their condition and they need to get it before their "other" does.

Re: Sharing a body with Fistandantilus

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:48 pm
by Havard
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:18 pm
If your player is up to playing both parts, I think it could be kind of cool to allow them to do it. Maybe have some elements built into the campaign that would allow one or the other "soul" to eventually take complete control. Possibly just various rolls by each over time for dominance (I'm thinking something like the magic sword Ego system), or the character learns of some device that can stabilize their condition and they need to get it before their "other" does.
Yes, I am thinking about exactly something like this! Great idea to look at the Ego system from swords! That is exactly the sort of conflict I am looking for. :D

-Havard