[Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright products

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[Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright products

Post by Big Mac » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:59 pm

This came up in my "Naval Battle Rules: The Seas of Cerilia" topic:
The Dark wrote:
Big Mac wrote:If I ran a SJ game that went to Ceriliaspace (or whatever the name for the sphere is)
I'd follow Knightfall's example and go with with Aebrynispace. Cerilia is a continent on Aebrynis. We really know very little about the planet. Cerilia itself is smaller than Europe, and we know almost nothing about the rest of the planet and (I believe) literally nothing about what lies beyond the planet. There's a tiny bit about part of Aduria (the continent south of Cerilia), but it covers very little. On the one hand, it's useful as a tabula rasa. On the other hand, there's a lot of work to be done because there's nothing there. One potentially interesting thing for a Spelljammer tie-in is that there are no orcs in Cerilia or the known portion of Aduria. The "tougher than goblins but not as tough as ogres" humanoids for Birthright are orogs.
Rather than continue to derail my own topic, with questions about "Aebrynispace" I thought I would start a new one.

Can anyone help me with an references to mentions of things in space in any of the Birthright products (including Aebrynis itself)? I'd be interested in the following (and anything else you think is relevant):
  • How big is Aebrynis?
  • Are there world maps of Aebrynis (or at least a list of the number of continents or the percentage of the surface that is covered in water)?
  • Do we know if Aebrynis has a 24 hour day...or a longer or shorter day?
  • Do we know if Aebrynis has a 365 day year...or a longer or shorter year?
  • I presume that Aebrynis has a sun. Does it have a name? Do we know anything about it?
  • Do we know if Aebrynis has one or more moons?
  • Do we know of any other objects visible in Aebrynis's sky (like rings)?
  • Are there any mentions of constellations or stars (that could be used for navigation and/or astrology)?
  • Are there any mentions of comets?
  • Are there any mentions of any sort of creatures that have come from "somewhere else"? (I know that 3rd Edition D&D lists a lot of aberrations as "monsters from space" but I don't think that was a common thing in 2nd Edition. But are there any unusual "origin stories" in Birthright canon?
(Just to be clear, I'm interested in any Birthright sources.)
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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by night_druid » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:19 pm

A long time ago, someone put together a fairly detailed sphere guide for the birthright sphere. I haven't seen it in well over a decade, so I don't know if you can still find it. I want to say it was named Rhymespace or Runespace or something like that.

Edit: I found a backup copy to Rhymespace but its not quite as I remember nor is it a birthright sphere. Hmmm.
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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by The Dark » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:40 pm

There's very little in canon that I'm aware of, likely because Spelljammer was already a completed product line by the time Birthright was published.

There is a moon, and the year is 388 days. The only constellation that's mentioned is Haelyn (also the name of a protector/warrior god). In southern Anuire (the southwestern part of Cerilia), the entire constellation is visible at the summer solstice. One star then drops below the horizon each month, until none of them are visible on the winter solstice (and only on that night), reappearing 1/month after that. Avani and Ruornil are (respectively) the goddess of the sun and god of the moon. The sun is presumably yellow, since that's used as Avani's color.

Monster choices tend more towards the medieval bestiary and the folklorish, and there are no significant origin stories. The origin stories tend to go to the awnsheghlien, people or animals corrupted by the bloodline of the god of evil.

There are at least four continents: Cerilia (the main continent), Aduria (south of Cerilia), Djapar (southeast of Cerilia), and Thaele (north of Cerilia). Dwarves, elves, and goblins are native to Cerilia, most humans are native to Aduria, one sub-species of human was native to Djapar, and nobody's native to Thaele (it's in the arctic zone), though some people do live there now. Cerilia and Aduria used to be connected by a land bridge, but it was destroyed in the aftermath of the Battle of Deismaar (where the old gods killed each other).

In the category of non-canon but possibly interesting, Dragon #241 had "The Roof of the World" in its Campaign Classics section, which was an Al-Qadim article using the Birthright domain rules to define the lands of the yikaria (yak-men). It had alternate placements for the yikarian realm, including Oerth, Toril, the Planes, and Aebrynis. It's implied that the yak-men are primarily in Aduria, since it refers to Anuire as "the North." However, it also posits that they're a race that has a permanent bloodform ability, so it wouldn't directly tie them to Toril.

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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by Big Mac » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:05 pm

night_druid wrote:A long time ago, someone put together a fairly detailed sphere guide for the birthright sphere. I haven't seen it in well over a decade, so I don't know if you can still find it. I want to say it was named Rhymespace or Runespace or something like that.

Edit: I found a backup copy to Rhymespace but its not quite as I remember nor is it a birthright sphere. Hmmm.
Thanks for trying to help ND. :)

So what was Rymespace? Was it a homebrew sphere?
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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by Big Mac » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:54 am

The Dark wrote:There's very little in canon that I'm aware of, likely because Spelljammer was already a completed product line by the time Birthright was published.
I wonder if it was that...or if it was a move away from connectivity.

Did Birthright have less connections to Planescape than other campaign settings?
The Dark wrote:There is a moon, and the year is 388 days. The only constellation that's mentioned is Haelyn (also the name of a protector/warrior god). In southern Anuire (the southwestern part of Cerilia), the entire constellation is visible at the summer solstice. One star then drops below the horizon each month, until none of them are visible on the winter solstice (and only on that night), reappearing 1/month after that. Avani and Ruornil are (respectively) the goddess of the sun and god of the moon. The sun is presumably yellow, since that's used as Avani's color.
388. Is there any logic to that? Is it a certain number of months or tied into any mythology?

Where is that constellation mentioned? Is it the core book, a supplement or a novel?

Do you think that there would be constellations for some (or all) of the other gods?

I guess I would call the sun and moon Avani and Ruornil, after their deities. I agree with you about the colour of the sun. Is there a colour associated with Ruornil?
The Dark wrote:Monster choices tend more towards the medieval bestiary and the folklorish, and there are no significant origin stories. The origin stories tend to go to the awnsheghlien, people or animals corrupted by the bloodline of the god of evil.
Thanks. I guess the awnsheghlien are the most important thing there. (I wonder if the real-world origin stories would be a valid fit, for the monsters.)
The Dark wrote:There are at least four continents: Cerilia (the main continent), Aduria (south of Cerilia), Djapar (southeast of Cerilia), and Thaele (north of Cerilia). Dwarves, elves, and goblins are native to Cerilia, most humans are native to Aduria, one sub-species of human was native to Djapar, and nobody's native to Thaele (it's in the arctic zone), though some people do live there now. Cerilia and Aduria used to be connected by a land bridge, but it was destroyed in the aftermath of the Battle of Deismaar (where the old gods killed each other).
Can we tell, from Thaele and Cerilia, what the distance from the equator to the north pole is (so that we can infer how big the world is)?

The Battle of Deismaar sounds interesting. I might start a topic about that.
The Dark wrote:In the category of non-canon but possibly interesting, Dragon #241 had "The Roof of the World" in its Campaign Classics section, which was an Al-Qadim article using the Birthright domain rules to define the lands of the yikaria (yak-men). It had alternate placements for the yikarian realm, including Oerth, Toril, the Planes, and Aebrynis. It's implied that the yak-men are primarily in Aduria, since it refers to Anuire as "the North." However, it also posits that they're a race that has a permanent bloodform ability, so it wouldn't directly tie them to Toril.
Interesting.

I suppose that, if races like the drow can be on lots of worlds, there is no reason why the yak-men could not be on lots of worlds too. :)

Did the stuff related to the planes imply that yak-men are planewalkers (who might travel from world to world)?
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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by ripvanwormer » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:01 am

Birthright was mentioned about as often as other TSR settings in Planescape, which isn't surprising considering Colin McComb was involved in both. I think there was more interconnectivity in later 2e, when crossovers like For Duty and Deity and Die Vecna Die were published. Spelljammer was mentioned less, though, as time went on.

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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by Big Mac » Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:00 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:Birthright was mentioned about as often as other TSR settings in Planescape, which isn't surprising considering Colin McComb was involved in both. I think there was more interconnectivity in later 2e, when crossovers like For Duty and Deity and Die Vecna Die were published. Spelljammer was mentioned less, though, as time went on.
Was this Planescape mentions in Birthright...or Birthright mentions in Planescape?

It seems to me that, if Birthright supported Planescape, but not Spelljammer, that might tell us something. But if Planescape had all the crossover support for Birthright, we shouldn't expect Planescape to be including Birthright/Spelljammer crossover hooks.
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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by Marco Fossati » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:30 am

Big Mac wrote:
ripvanwormer wrote:Birthright was mentioned about as often as other TSR settings in Planescape, which isn't surprising considering Colin McComb was involved in both. I think there was more interconnectivity in later 2e, when crossovers like For Duty and Deity and Die Vecna Die were published. Spelljammer was mentioned less, though, as time went on.
Was this Planescape mentions in Birthright...or Birthright mentions in Planescape?

It seems to me that, if Birthright supported Planescape, but not Spelljammer, that might tell us something. But if Planescape had all the crossover support for Birthright, we shouldn't expect Planescape to be including Birthright/Spelljammer crossover hooks.
I own all official products of BR setting and I'm pretty sure they don't mention of Planescape.

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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by Marco Fossati » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:34 am

Big Mac wrote:
The Dark wrote:There is a moon, and the year is 388 days. The only constellation that's mentioned is Haelyn (also the name of a protector/warrior god). In southern Anuire (the southwestern part of Cerilia), the entire constellation is visible at the summer solstice. One star then drops below the horizon each month, until none of them are visible on the winter solstice (and only on that night), reappearing 1/month after that. Avani and Ruornil are (respectively) the goddess of the sun and god of the moon. The sun is presumably yellow, since that's used as Avani's color.
388. Is there any logic to that? Is it a certain number of months or tied into any mythology?
Logic is simple

12 months, each of 4 weeks, of 8 days each

12*4*8= 384

Add 4 holy days, one for season and you have 388

I guess they made a week 8 days long to make a little difference with real world

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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by Marco Fossati » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:38 am

Big Mac wrote:
The Dark wrote:Monster choices tend more towards the medieval bestiary and the folklorish, and there are no significant origin stories. The origin stories tend to go to the awnsheghlien, people or animals corrupted by the bloodline of the god of evil.
Thanks. I guess the awnsheghlien are the most important thing there. (I wonder if the real-world origin stories would be a valid fit, for the monsters.)
Yes, they are.

They rule vast realms, they wield powerful magic and they're all great villains (with very few exceptions).

Some obviously come from human mythologies (the Minotaur, the Sphins, the Siren, the Hydra...) some are huge common beasts modified (the Boar, The Spider, The Serpent...) and others are iconic D&D monsters/races (The Gorgon, the Vampire, the Elf Manslayer)

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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by Marco Fossati » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:41 am

Big Mac wrote:
The Dark wrote:There are at least four continents: Cerilia (the main continent), Aduria (south of Cerilia), Djapar (southeast of Cerilia), and Thaele (north of Cerilia). Dwarves, elves, and goblins are native to Cerilia, most humans are native to Aduria, one sub-species of human was native to Djapar, and nobody's native to Thaele (it's in the arctic zone), though some people do live there now. Cerilia and Aduria used to be connected by a land bridge, but it was destroyed in the aftermath of the Battle of Deismaar (where the old gods killed each other).
Can we tell, from Thaele and Cerilia, what the distance from the equator to the north pole is (so that we can infer how big the world is)?
AFAIK there's no official world map of Aebrynis. On birthright.net you can find some fanon map, very nice indeed.

imho Thaele is a very near to the pole, while Cerilia is what Central Europe, Djapar Asian Middle East-Far East, while Aduria is Africa on Earth.

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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by Big Mac » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:35 pm

Marco Fossati wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
ripvanwormer wrote:Birthright was mentioned about as often as other TSR settings in Planescape, which isn't surprising considering Colin McComb was involved in both. I think there was more interconnectivity in later 2e, when crossovers like For Duty and Deity and Die Vecna Die were published. Spelljammer was mentioned less, though, as time went on.
Was this Planescape mentions in Birthright...or Birthright mentions in Planescape?

It seems to me that, if Birthright supported Planescape, but not Spelljammer, that might tell us something. But if Planescape had all the crossover support for Birthright, we shouldn't expect Planescape to be including Birthright/Spelljammer crossover hooks.
I own all official products of BR setting and I'm pretty sure they don't mention of Planescape.
Thanks.

Is there any sort of mention of other planes at all? Are there any bespoke Birthright spells that have a tie-in to a plane other than the Material Plane?
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Re: [Aebrynispace] References to space in Birthright product

Post by ripvanwormer » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:23 pm

The major plane mentioned in Birthright products is the Shadow World, which is like a cross between the Shadowfell and Feywild in 4e-5e. It's where halflings originated in this setting, and it's where faeries dwell, and it was corrupted by a god of evil so it's also dark and full of undead.

A Guide to the Ethereal Plane explained that the Shadow World was Cerilia's Border Ethereal.

Other Planescape sources do mention Birthright. There's an awnsheglian from the Birthright setting currently dwelling in Gehenna, and Birthright's gods live on the same set of 17 outer planes that the gods of every setting live on in 2e.

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