5th Edition Tsucora Quori

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5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Thu May 26, 2016 8:07 am

Welp, there are some Inspired shennanigans going on in Stormreach, and I love my psionic bad guys, so I'll inevitably need these stats somewhere down the line.

so... why Large instead of the original Medium? Cause the only Tsucora miniature I have is Large sized.

QUORI, TSUCORA
The tsucora quori are the foot soldiers of the Devourer of Dreams's forces on Dal Quor. Beings of pure nightmare and fear incarnate, they form the majority of the Dreaming Dark forces that infiltrate the material plane, as well as many Inspired soldiers and guards in the Empire of Riedra.

TSUCORA
Large fiend (quori), lawful evil
Armor Class 15 (mage armor)
Hit Points 95 (10d10 + 40)
Speed 40 ft.

Saving Throws Dex +5, Cha +6
Skills Intimidate +6, Perception +10, Stealth +5
Damage Resistances acid, cold, fire; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from nonmagical attacks
Condition Immunities charm, frightened
Senses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 20
Languages Common, Quor, Reidran, telepathy 120 ft.
Challenge 7 (2,900 XP)

Nightmare Awareness. Magical darkness doesn't impede the quori's darkvision, and magic can't put the quori to sleep.

Innate Spellcasting (Psionic). The tsucora's innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 14). It can innately cast the following spells, requiring no components:
At will: mage armor, mage hand, teleport (on Dal Quor only)
1/day each: charm person, cure wounds (self only), inflict wounds (3rd level; 27 (5d10) necrotic damage)

Invade Dreams. A quori on the plane of Dal Quor can cast the dream spell on a creature known to it currently on another plane. It can send only itself as the messenger, but it can change appearance, as if it was a medium sized humanoid using alter self. The Wisdom saving throw for a nightmarish message is DC 14. The quori regains the use of this ability after a long rest.

Magic Resistance. The tsucora has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.

ACTIONS
Multiattack. The tsucora makes three attacks: two with its pincers and one with its sting.

Pincer. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 14 (2d10 + 3) bludgeoning damage and the target is grappled (escape DC 13). The tsucora has two pincers, each of which can grapple only one target.

Terrifying Sting. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 10 ft., one creature. Hit: 12 (2d8 + 3) piercing damage and the target must succeed on a DC 14 Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. While frightened by this effect, at the start of each of its turns, the target must succeed on another Wisdom saving throw or take 22 (4d10) psychic damage. On a successful save, the target is no longer frightened.

Quori Possession (Recharge after a Long Rest). A quori can automatically possess a Chosen assigned to it, as well as a willing human of non-good alignment and a Charisma score of at least 13. The vessel must be dreaming, and therefore psychically projecting into Dal Quor, and the quori must be adjacent to the target's psychic projection. The quori merges with the vessel's psychic projection, gaining immediate access to the vessel's thoughts and memories and taking full control of the body when it wakes up. The quori's body remains behind in Dal Quor in a state of suspended animation, paralyzed. Damage to the quori's body does not end the possession.
While possessing a vessel, the quori retains its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, but has access to none of its abilities or actions except its condition immunities, innate spellcasting, languages, skill proficiencies, and telepathy. While controlling the vessel, the quori has access to all the vessel's statistics, including the target's class features and all of its proficiencies. If the vessel is proficient in any skills the quori is also proficient in, the quori uses whichever check is better. Finally, while possessing a vessel, the quori has advantage on all Charisma saving throws.
A possessing quori can't be targeted by any attack, spell, or other effect, except ones that turn fiends. Physical harm to the vessel does not harm the quori. The possession lasts until the vessel is killed, the quori ends it as a bonus action, or the quori is turned or forced out by an effect like the dispel evil and good spell. When the possession ends, the quori immediately returns to its body on Dal Quor and its paralyzed condition ends.
Last edited by AvonRekaes on Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:13 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby HellcowKeith » Thu May 26, 2016 5:36 pm

This seems pretty sound to me... though frankly, it turns up a few weird quirks of the ORIGINAL tsucora design. I think requiring the desired host to match or exceed the Tsucora's Charisma score is fairly restrictive given Eberron's generally "low-level" approach; it's not like there's a ton of Charisma 17+ people out there. I'd probably limit it to Charisma 13+, noted in the original entry as the minimum score to maintain possession. So you need to have a reasonable force of personality, but 17+. I'm also not sure how I feel about requiring a perfect alignment match, given Eberron's generally lighter take on alignment. I'd personally probably make it that an evil Quori can't possess a good person and vice versa, but leave it at that. You're dealing with the fundamental darkness or light in a spirit, so the kalashtar Quori could only take root in fundamentally noble souls and the evil Quori can't corrupt such a person... but I think the precise match is a little too limiting.

... But I appreciate that you're following the rules as presented in the 3.5 ECS!
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Thu May 26, 2016 7:12 pm

Wow, thank's Keith!

I suspect that the original possession rules in the ECG were based on the Book of Vile Darkness rules. The alignment and Charisma scores did seem suspect to me, but I figured there was some flavor reason for it. Your word (while not officially canon, yadda yadda yadda) is good enough for me.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Fri May 27, 2016 3:25 am

Took the liberty of prepping a sample Quori possessed NPC. This gladiator is a willing human possessed by a tsucora agent of the Dreaming Dark. It has no connection or insight into the Inspired government of Riedra, and any acts of sabotage or murder the tsucora commits in its human host would be exceedingly hard to connect back to that regime. The goals of the Dreaming Dark are subtle and often inscrutable without magical aid.

TSUCORA-POSSESSED GLADIATOR
Medium humanoid (human), lawful evil
Armor Class 16 (studded leather, shield)
Hit Points 112 (15d8 + 45)
Speed 30 ft.

Saving Throws Str +7, Dex +5, Con +6
Skills Athletics +10, Intimidate +6, Perception +10, Stealth +5
Condition Immunities charmed, frightened
Senses passive Perception 20
Languages Common, Riedran, Quor, telepathy 120 ft.
Challenge 5 (1,800 XP)

Brute. A melee weapon does one extra die of its damage when the gladiator hits with it (included in the attack).

Innate Spellcasting (Psionic). The tsucora's innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 14). It can innately cast the following spells, requiring no components:
At will: mage armor, mage hand, teleport (on Dal Quor only)
1/day each: charm person, cure wounds (self only), inflict wounds (3rd level; 27 (5d10) necrotic damage)

Quori Possessed. The gladiator is possessed by a tsucora quori spirit. It has advantage on all Charisma saves, and uses the quori's proficiency in intimidate, perception, and stealth checks. It knows all the languages the tsucora knows, has telepathy 120 ft., and has access to the tsucora's innate spellcasting.
The possession lasts until the gladiator is killed, the quori ends it as a bonus action, or the quori is turned or forced out by an effect like the dispel evil and good spell. If possession ends before the gladiator is killed, it only has proficiency in Athletics and Intimidate, and knows only Common.

ACTIONS
Multiattack. The gladiator makes three melee attacks or two ranged attacks.

Spear. Melee or Ranged Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft. and range 20/60 ft., one target. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) piercing damage, or 13 (2d8 + 4) piercing damage if used with two hands to make a melee attack.

Shield Bash. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 9 (2d4 + 4) bludgeoning damage. If the target is a Medium or smaller creature, it must succeed on a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.

REACTIONS
Parry. The gladiator adds 3 to its AC against one melee attack that would hit it. To do so, the gladiator must see the attacker and be wielding a melee weapon.

And if you want to use my variant human stats for the NPC you can add this trait:
Driven. The gladiator can automatically gain advantage on any d20 roll once. It regains the use of this ability after a long rest.

Interestingly, the abilities being possessed adds to the Gladiator don't really add to it's CR.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:29 pm

After doing three quori and making several possessed NPCs, I've started to reconsider how Quori possession works. I think more of the quori should come through in the possession, mainly its proficiency bonus. It makes more narrative sense that, as the controlling entity, the Quori's aptitude in most things is maintained. And mechanically, it makes the possessed npc change more drastically, which is more interesting.

What do you guys think about the below?

Quori Possession (Recharge after a Long Rest). A quori can automatically possess a Chosen assigned to it, as well as a willing human of non-good alignment and a Charisma score of at least 13. The vessel must be dreaming, and therefore psychically projecting into Dal Quor, and the quori must be adjacent to the target's psychic projection. The quori merges with the vessel's psychic projection, gaining immediate access to the vessel's thoughts and memories and taking full control of the body when it wakes up. The quori's body remains behind in Dal Quor in a state of suspended animation, paralyzed. Damage to the quori's body does not end the possession.
__While possessing a vessel, the quori has access to all the vessel's statistics, including its traits and actions, but the quori retains its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, and access to its condition immunities, nightmare awareness, innate spellcasting, languages, and telepathy. In addition, the quori uses its own proficiency bonus for any ability either it or the vessel would use its proficiency bonus with (attack rolls, spell save DCs, etc). If the vessel is proficient in any skills the quori is also proficient in, the quori applies both its own and the vessel's proficiency bonus to the check. Finally, while possessing a vessel, the quori has advantage on all Charisma saving throws.
__A possessing quori can't be targeted by any attack, spell, or other effect, except ones that turn fiends. Physical harm to the vessel does not harm the quori. The possession lasts until the vessel is killed, the quori ends it as a bonus action, or the quori is turned or forced out by an effect like the dispel evil and good spell. When the possession ends, the quori immediately returns to its body on Dal Quor and its paralyzed condition ends.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby enderxenocide0 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:46 am

AvonRekaes wrote:I think more of the quori should come through in the possession, mainly its proficiency bonus.

My main issue with this is, mechanically, an NPC's proficiency bonus is determined by its Challenge Rating. Changing the proficiency bonus with possession is... troublesome, then. Personally, I would suggest some wording like this:

---
It otherwise uses the possessed target's statistics and gains access to the target's knowledge and memories. If both the quori and the target are proficient with the same skill, the target's proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check made that uses said proficiencies.
---

Here's the main dilemma: 5E is not designed with template-stacking in mind. Honestly, it might be worth thinking about not designing a Quori Possession ability like a Ghost, but rather a Quori-Possessed trait. Any NPC possessed by a Quori would have that trait, but all the stats would be tailored to the individual quori-host combination.

EDIT: In retrospect, clearly you've already made said trait. I mean to suggest putting most of the mechanical weight in the trait as opposed to the Quori's action.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:53 am

Well, the sample NPCs already include a complete re-working of their CR values. You pretty much have to, with the innate spellcasting.

In terms of designing monsters, you actually finalize everything about a monster, including attack bonuses and ability DCs, before you determine its challenge rating. There isn't a step afterward that changes it's proficiency bonus once its CR is determined.

In terms of transparency, i think the "standard notation" for the Quori Possessed trait on an NPC would include what the Quori's proficiency bonus is.

Basically like this:

Quori Possessed. The gladiator is possessed by a tsucora quori spirit. It has advantage on all Charisma saves, uses the quori's proficiency bonus (+3) instead of its own, and has access to the quori's proficiency in Intimidate, Perception, and Stealth. It knows all the languages the tsucora knows, has telepathy 120 ft., shares the tsucora's immunity to the charmed and fear conditions, and has the innate spellcasting and nightmare awareness traits.
The possession lasts until the gladiator is killed, the quori ends it as a bonus action, or the quori is turned or forced out by an effect like the dispel evil and good spell. If possession ends before the gladiator is killed, it knows only Common.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby enderxenocide0 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:04 am

AvonRekaes wrote:Well, the sample NPCs already include a complete re-working of their CR values. You pretty much have to, with the innate spellcasting.

In terms of designing monsters, you actually finalize everything about a monster, including attack bonuses and ability DCs, before you determine its challenge rating. There isn't a step afterward that changes it's proficiency bonus once its CR is determined.

In terms of transparency, i think the "standard notation" for the Quori Possessed trait on an NPC would include what the Quori's proficiency bonus is.

Actually, the bloody challenge rating is circular, which bugs me. Your proficiency bonus is determined by challenge rating, but your attack bonuses and DCs are determined by proficiency bonus, but your attack bonuses and DCs factor into your challenge rating. The DMG explicitly calls out the fact that you are intended to start with close-ish stats, then adjust after your initial challenge rating almost always is incorrect. Whoever thought that was a good idea was sorely mistaken. I highly recommend The Angry GM's series of articles on 5E monster creation for more info.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:12 am

The way I read it is: Pick a approximate CR. Create your monster, finalizing all of its stats. Determine what it's actual CR it is.

I don't read any implication that you then alter the stat block once the final CR is realized. If it has a high attack and that's part of it's Offensive Challenge Rating calculation, lowering it to be in line with its final CR's actual proficiency would alter your calculation, and then, yes, it would be circular. As it was, I just assumed that if the final CR had a different proficiency bonus than the one you used to make the monster, it just had a different proficiency bonus. It's not as if monster stat blocks have a "Proficiency Bonus. +x" line in their stat blocks. Unless you've memorized the table and/or formula for what CR has what Proficiency bonus, you'd find the monsters proficiency bonus the same way as normal: look at its attacks or skill checks and subtract the relevant ability modifiers and that's the monster's proficiency bonus. Regardless of CR.

Also, I think as long as the proficiency bonus the monster is using is clearly noted if it's different from expected, it's fine. My Zakya Rakshasa conversion applies double its proficiency bonus to attacks. There's just a trait in its stat block that mentions this so the calculation is transparent to DMs.

EDIT:
Reading through the link you gave me, and finding it both pretty humorous and informative (although I have plenty of experience making monsters as per the DMG method). One part stuck out to me though. He invented a trait for showing an exception for all a monster's attacks getting it's proficiency bonus (the Lummox trait). That's essentially what my proposed revised version of the Quori Possessed trait would do. It would call out a specific exception to the tie between proficiency bonus and CR, and by making it explicit, it's an exception to the rule in an exception-based game. I think it'll be fine.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby enderxenocide0 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:17 pm

AvonRekaes wrote:I don't read any implication that you then alter the stat block once the final CR is realized.

I didn't mean to suggest that anything happens after the CR is finalized, just that getting to the final CR is a poor process of reworking things in a circular fashion.

AvonRekaes wrote:EDIT:
Reading through the link you gave me, and finding it both pretty humorous and informative (although I have plenty of experience making monsters as per the DMG method). One part stuck out to me though. He invented a trait for showing an exception for all a monster's attacks getting it's proficiency bonus (the Lummox trait). That's essentially what my proposed revised version of the Quori Possessed trait would do. It would call out a specific exception to the tie between proficiency bonus and CR, and by making it explicit, it's an exception to the rule in an exception-based game. I think it'll be fine.

After some thought, I think you're right on the trait. I'm still a little leery about it, but I haven't done any breakdown of the NPCs to see if the CR seems appropriate or not based on the proficiency bonus issue.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:12 pm

Well I definitely wouldn't mind a second pair of eyes on my calculations. I'm sure published monsters go through proofs and revisions, unlike my stuff which is basically created in a vacuum.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:20 pm

A friend just showed me his copy of Storm King's Thunder, specifically the Yak Folk. They have a possession ability that specifically notes they retain their proficiency modifier when possessing something. I'm going to borrow the book next time I see my friend and rework the quori possession using it as a guide.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby enderxenocide0 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:47 pm

AvonRekaes wrote:A friend just showed me his copy of Storm King's Thunder, specifically the Yak Folk. They have a possession ability that specifically notes they retain their proficiency modifier when possessing something. I'm going to borrow the book next time I see my friend and rework the quori possession using it as a guide.

It actually doesn't mention the modifier. It says it retains its proficiencies, which is not the same as the proficiency bonus.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:48 pm

Ah, I probably just assumed that after reading it. But that might be a bit of semantics, anyway. If I retain my proficiencies, I would think, logically, that also includes my exact level of proficiency.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby enderxenocide0 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:46 pm

AvonRekaes wrote:Ah, I probably just assumed that after reading it. But that might be a bit of semantics, anyway. If I retain my proficiencies, I would think, logically, that also includes my exact level of proficiency.

Crawford has been pretty adamant in his Twitter answers about using the words he means and separating definitions. If you check the PHB, you'll see that the Proficiency Bonus section says that you apply your proficiency bonus to a check if you have proficiency with that check. Sometimes you add double your proficiency bonus (a Rogue's Expertise for instance) to something with which you are proficient. The way I would interpret it is that the Yakfolk's proficiencies are kept, but the host's recalculated CR determines the proficiency bonus. Take a look at similar text in the Shapechange spell:
Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the chosen creature, though you retain your alignment and Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma scores. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus listed in its statistics is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus in place of yours.

It avoids mentioning the proficiency bonus, but talks about the proficiencies and the final skill and saving thrown bonus value, replacing yours with its if the creature's is higher. See, the proglem is that a proficiency bonus is purely mechanical. It has no narrative explanation, but the proficiencies do; they are representative of things you've trained to be better at than others. The bonus, though, is simply something that improves overall as you increase in level. It doesn't necessarily represent training those skills, tools, or weapons more. You could have 1 level of Fighter, gain all those weapon proficiencies, then take 19 levels of Wizard and never use a weapon again... but your proficiency bonus would have increased, affecting your proficiencies regardless. So the bonus is solely in the realm of mechanics and I think, at best, this is a grey area they didn't really consider. But it is a legitimately good question to ask Crawford on or Mearls on Twitter. I may go ahead and do so when I get home today.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:02 pm

That's a really good point. The wording of shapechange is also a pretty good framework to go off of.

I think I also need to be clearer which creature is in charge. Reading the language of the possessed trait I wrote for npcs, it sounds like the host is being given benefits, rather than the quori walking around in the host.

I'll have to start following Crawford & Mearls too.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby enderxenocide0 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:12 pm

I discovered I have access to Twitter at work (that's probably not a good thing), so I sent Jeremy the question. I'll let you know what he says!
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:48 am

enderxenocide0 wrote:I discovered I have access to Twitter at work (that's probably not a good thing), so I sent Jeremy the question. I'll let you know what he says!

Please do!

In the mean time, I borrowed Storm King's Thunder. Here's my latest attempt at Quori possession.

Quori Possession (1/day). A quori can automatically possess a Chosen assigned to it, as well as a willing human of non-good alignment. The target vessel must be dreaming, and therefore psychically projecting into Dal Quor, and the quori must be adjacent to the target's psychic projection. The quori's spirit merges with the target's psychic projection, gaining access to all of the vessel's knowledge and memories. The quori can immediately wake the target's body, and when it does so the quori's own body remains behind in Dal Quor in a state of suspended animation and is paralyzed. Damage to the quori's body does not end the possession.
_Upon waking, and until the possession ends, the target is conscious but incapacitated. The host is aware of its surroundings but unable to control its body. The quori controls the body. retaining its alignment; its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; its proficiencies (including its proficiency bonus of +X); and its condition immunities, languages, and innate spellcasting. It otherwise uses the target's statistics, including the target's knowledge, class features, feats, traits, languages, and proficiencies (using the quori's proficiency bonus if higher). If the quori and the vessel share the same skill or tool proficiencies it makes ability checks using those skills or tools with advantage. While the [NPC] remains possessed, its body can't be magically put to sleep.
_A possessing quori can't be targeted by any attack, spell, or other effect, except ones that turn fiends. Physical harm to the target vessel does not harm the quori. The possession lasts until the vessel is killed, the quori ends it as a bonus action, or the quori is turned or forced out by an effect like the dispel evil and good spell. When the possession ends, the vessels can move and is no longer incapacitated (if it is still alive); the quori immediately returns to its body on Dal Quor, ending its paralyzed condition.


In this version, I also got rid of the minimum Charisma requirement (a limitation I even forgot when making the Kalaraq-possessed assassin). I'm not really certain why a completely dominating process like possession requires the host to have a higher than average sense of self. You'd think they'd prefer (or need) vessels that don't have much in the way of a personality, so it's easier for them to push it aside. I suppose an argument might be made that the vessel needs to be of a certain metaphysical "size" in order to contain the quori spirit, but I don't think that's a necessary part of the setting lore, and removing it makes things simpler. Besides, in 5e, NPC abilities scores can literally be whatever the DM wants, so if I really wanted a Kalaraq-possessed assassin, I could just say that particular assassin had a higher than normal charisma. It's effectively a superfluous requirement in the 5e system if it doesn't serve a concrete lore purpose.
Speaking of setting lore, I added a little bit about the target specifically NOT being unconscious while incapacitated by possession. I'm not sure if that's accurate. I vaguely recall something about Chosen empty vessel personalities eventually being nearly indistinguishable from their quori hosts after so much time being possessed because they literally cannot remember thinking in any other way. That's not... precisely the same thing as being perfectly aware of whats going on while possessed. But I figure it's creepy as hell so I'll keep it for now until I can find out the answer. (Update: Got my answer from Keith on twitter, quori vessels are conscious during possession and aware of the quori's actions, but unable to act themselves.)

Anyway, here's how I'd format the NPC trait

Quori Possessed. The [NPC] is possessed by a [QUORI TYPE] quori spirit. The [NPC] is conscious but incapacitated. The host is aware of its surroundings but unable to control its body. The quori controls the body, retaining its alignment; its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; its proficiencies ["(including its proficiency bonus of +X)" IF HIGHER THAN HOST'S]; and its condition immunities, languages, and its innate spellcasting trait. It otherwise uses the target's statistics, including the target's proficiencies, languages, and [TRAITS/ACTIONS/REACTIONS/LEGENDARY ACTIONS/etc].
_The possession lasts until the [NPC] is killed, the quori ends it as a bonus action, or the quori is turned or forced out by an effect like the dispel evil and good spell. The quori cannot be otherwise targeted or effected. If possession ends before the [NPC] is killed, use the regular [NPC] statistics with the same remaining HP total for the former host.

Dual Spirit. While possessed by a quori, the host's body can't be magically put to sleep and the quori makes all [LIST OF SHARED SKILLS] checks with advantage.


[Edit: Making a few more changes to remove the quori's senses carrying over to the host. Doesn't make sense and i only did it because i packaged the "cant be magically put to sleep" ability in with "can see through magical darkness" ability. I wish you could just note "sleep" or "magic sleep" as a condition immunity, but unfortunately, those arent actual consitions where the mechanics are concerned. I also separated out a portion of the npc possessed trait into another trait to make the most directly pertinent information easy to notice.]
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:31 pm

I think we got our answer for proficiency bonuses in the latest Dragon Talk podcast episode. The Sage Advice segment is about Wild Shape, but in it they discuss what it means to "use your own proficiencies". Apparently it does mean the actual bonus you apply to proficient rolls, as well as what rolls you're proficient in.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby enderxenocide0 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:05 am

Do you have a timestamp by any chance? I don't usually listen to Dragon Talk, but I'd like to hear his answer (and really don't want to listen to the whole thing for it).
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:26 pm

Sure thing. They start talking about proficiencies and proficiency bonuses at 12:11, the payoff comes at around 13:20.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby Makis83 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:14 am

Good work I have been designing some Quori for my campaign as well. I must say that both approaches share many similarities. One thing I need to point thought is that your version has two many hp. According to the monster creation in the dm's guide, creatures of this challenge that have resistances to so many damage types have half hp than normal. Keep up the good work.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:44 pm

It's expected challenge rating is 5-10, so the multiplier for effective HP is 1.5 not 2. This would give it the AC and HP for DCR 6. It has an expected damage per round of 62 and +6 attack bonus, for an ACR of 9. The average of that is 7.5, which I rounded to 7.
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby AvonRekaes » Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:50 pm

Actually I just realized I did make a mistake. I failed to take into account the +2 effective AC for the Magic Resistance trait. To compensate, I'll reduce it's HP to 95 to bring its DCR back to 6. That should keep it at CR 7.

Thanks for keeping an eye out. :)
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Re: 5th Edition Tsucora Quori

Postby enderxenocide0 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:32 pm

AvonRekaes wrote:I think we got our answer for proficiency bonuses in the latest Dragon Talk podcast episode. The Sage Advice segment is about Wild Shape, but in it they discuss what it means to "use your own proficiencies". Apparently it does mean the actual bonus you apply to proficient rolls, as well as what rolls you're proficient in.

So I finally got around to listening to this after forgetting about it entirely for a while and, yes, I agree now. Your stat blocks functions properly. I will say, tangentially, that I don't like how much calculation has to be redone in these, but that's an issue with how 5E handled it and not in your methodology, by any means.
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