Dawn War in Eberron

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Dawn War in Eberron

Postby Zeromaru X » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:35 am

Reading Heroes of Elemental Chaos to answer to a topic in Candlekeep, it says that the Dawn War happened at a multiversal scale. And since Eberron is part of the D&D multiverse according to 5e, I want to ask for ideas of how to place the Dawn War in Eberron.

I imagine, its had to do with the Dragon-Demon Wars, but it like to know if there are better ideas for how to make this to work.
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Re: Dawn War in Eberron

Postby Beoric » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:53 am

Wouldn't that require you as a DM to declare that the gods actually exist? Unless the Dawn War is an unprovable myth in Eberron. Maybe it was the battle among the Progenitor Dragons.

I suppose there are some myths that suggest the Sovereigns were originally dragons, and at least a few are called out as having lived during the Age of Demons, so perhaps it could be the war with the Overlords. Of course, the conduct of that war is restricted to Eberron and has no impact on the other planes.

How about this: the Dawn War occurred in Shavarrath, which represents all war, and it is still taking place?
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Re: Dawn War in Eberron

Postby tetrasodium » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:06 am

Zeromaru X wrote:Reading Heroes of Elemental Chaos to answer to a topic in Candlekeep, it says that the Dawn War happened at a multiversal scale. And since Eberron is part of the D&D multiverse according to 5e, I want to ask for ideas of how to place the Dawn War in Eberron.

I imagine, its had to do with the Dragon-Demon Wars, but it like to know if there are better ideas for how to make this to work.


Beoric is right. Your problem highlights juat how obnoxious it is whenever someone says things along the lines of "eberron is part of the shared multiverse"

I'm going to say this because it bothers me that I have to go through significant effort to un-phb new players. WotC likes to say that X happened across all of the settings, but ask them why core books like the mm have zero mention of it & anything in it "Eberron very consciously went against the shared lore of the settings, making it hard to fit in", From looking at this quick wiki entry, I'd say take his advice and accept that the dawn war very consciously does not bother to accommodate for eberron not being Forgotten realms with a twist. change all the names, remove the gods, insert daelkyr to fill in with more fitting ways, & set it during the downslide/fall of dhakaan. don't just plonk it in, treat the faerun bolt on with the reverance it deserves & say that during a bloody battle that left hundreds/thousands dead & wiped out the Lo'Kech clan before the daelkyr erek'hus was torn asunder by one of Vvarak's Gatekeeper disciples as an example. If it's a "shared" multiverse & start including eberron specific stuffinstead of bolting on things like 4e's ~"Thelanis is totally The Feywild" although going by PotA they at least admit that eberron's planes are not trie analogues to FR's elemental planes & maybe they will start doing better once a new eberron book comes out
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Re: Dawn War in Eberron

Postby AvonRekaes » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:55 pm

Personally, Eberron works MUCH better for me if it is NOT in the same multiverse as other D&D settings. Which, is actually a hard decision for me to make, since my first-and-favorite D&D character was a world-hopping Paladin of Bahamut. But even with Bahamut being technically part of Eberron, I never found it right to bring that character to Eberron. Why? Because he's talked to Bahamut.

The Gods being concrete, absolute truths is not what Eberron is about. Any storyline or something that has real-existing-incontrovertible gods interacting with Eberron at all, isn't Eberron.

If you want to take the FLAVOR of the Dawn War and do something with it, like how I messed with all the 3.5 binder vestiges until some were so mangled they don't even resemble their former selves, then that's one thing. But to discuss "How does the historical fact of Gods and Primordials creating and fighting over existence influence Eberron?", you first need to find a DMing willing to change one of the base assumptions of the setting to say that Gods exist without question.

Not to mention the fact that, if you decide to make the core-setting Dawn War a fact in Eberron, you're replacing the existing conflict-at-the-creation-of-the-world with Siberys and Khyber.
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Re: Dawn War in Eberron

Postby Zeromaru X » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:06 am

Yeah, I tend to forget that Eberron is kinda different on how D&D stuff works compared with other D&D settings.
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Re: Dawn War in Eberron

Postby Havard » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:00 pm

Doesn't Planescape offer some similar ideas on reality and myths not being absolute though? Perhaps that is one way to work Eberron into the greater multiverse without nerfing the unique aspects of the setting?

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Re: Dawn War in Eberron

Postby Zeromaru X » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:40 pm

Doesn't Eberron contradicts even Planescape? The only setting that isn't contradicted by Eberron is Spelljammer. And I can be wrong here.
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Re: Dawn War in Eberron

Postby tetrasodium » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:05 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:Doesn't Eberron contradicts even Planescape? The only setting that isn't contradicted by Eberron is Spelljammer. And I can be wrong here.


I'm not super familiar with planescape beyond the basic kinda stuff you find in the wikipedia article for it,but it looks pretty violently in contradiction to eberron yes.
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Re: Dawn War in Eberron

Postby Havard » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:43 pm

Well, I'm not an expert on either setting, but Eberron has its own unique planar structure that does not add up to Planescape. However, I know that Planescape has some concepts about belief being able to change reality so perhaps something could be worked around that premise to combined the two without nerfing either setting? Maybe something we could ask about in the Planescape forum? :)

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Re: Dawn War in Eberron

Postby ripvanwormer » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:10 pm

Havard wrote:Doesn't Planescape offer some similar ideas on reality and myths not being absolute though? Perhaps that is one way to work Eberron into the greater multiverse without nerfing the unique aspects of the setting?


The second edition DMG (original printing) had some stuff about the planes being subjective and appearing wildly different depending on the culture of those exploring it. I.E. the 17 outer planes of the Great Wheel are seen by the Norse as nine planes attached to Yggdrasil and that's equally valid.

Planescape didn't really do that. The Planescape cosmology is subjective in the sense that the beliefs of those living on them can cause them to change (i.e. if the town of Fortitude in the Outlands becomes too lawful it shifts over into Arcadia) but it didn't try to say, for example, that the 17 outer planes were only one way of looking at a structure that could just as easily be 13 outer planes orbiting Eberron.

That said, you could identify the Eberron planes with Great Wheel planes. I think most Eberron fans would consider the attempt to be heretical, but you could do that.

The Dawn War seems broadly equivalent to the war between the rakshasas and couatls in the Eberron setting.
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