Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan (Word Doc on p.2)

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Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan (Word Doc on p.2)

Post by Boneguard »

I would need your help with an idea I have - mostly because I don't own much in matter of 3rd ed/pathfinder product. The idea is to expand my 1st edition Oriental adventure with some elements from 3rd Ed Oriental Adventure/d20 Rokugan

So far I was considering using the core rule book of all three above mentionned game with Creatures of Rokugan to help me with the Retro-harvesting.

1) Races and Monster Descritions
Here I was considering harvesting the Nemezi, Vanara, Naga, Bakemono and potentially the Tengo and the Kitsune. Both figuring out the stats for them as a Character Race and their "Monster Manual" sheet if they dont exist in 1st ed OA.

The Horde boxset, make reference of an oriental elven community in the area North of Shou Lung, I was considering adapting them too and making them and half-elf very rare.

Do you have any other suggestion here for additional race, or any other help/material/recommendation

2) Class
I always felt that somethnig was missing here. Shukenja are a great class, but it is very limited in most encounter as it cannot kill any living creature...plus only Hengeyokai and Human can be shukenja, so what about the other races? No healer? One of my friend has ported over the cleric from "regular AD&D" for his game, I would like something a bit more setting appropriate.

I was considering either adapting one or several of the following class(es) or harvesting a clerical class form 3rd ed (if any) that would be appropriate.
- Barbarian cleric (Dragon magazine #109 or Complete barbarian)
- Druid
- Shaman (Dragon magazine #141 or 2nd edition stand alone class)
- Cloistered cleric (Dragon magazine #68)

Do you have any other suggestion here for classes, or any other help/material/recommendation


3) Anything else you would recommend harvesting or proting over?
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan/Jade oat

Post by Sock Puppet »

shukenja being ineffective in combat is a deliberate design decision. The class was modelled off Tripitaka from Monkey, who was a total pacifist. in 3e terms, he had a Vow of Non-Violence (BoED) going on.

You probably won't lose anything by throwing in regular 1e clerics as "foreigners", although it would probably change the flavour of the setting if you want native priestly types to be warriors. 3e OA had a warrior-monk class, and you could probably use the paladin class (but drop the horse and charisma requirement, and grant it proficiency with "Asian" weapons; granting it monk-style unarmed combat wouldn't be out of place either) to cover that trope. That gives a fighting healer class without changing the setting.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan/Jade oat

Post by Princess Strega »

Maybe instead of clerics you could use the Champion [of Life] and/or Greenbond class, perhaps modifying them to suit your needs somehow.

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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan/Jade oat

Post by Boneguard »

In regards to the Shukenja, I know it was deliberate and it's a class, I personaly enjoy playing in part due to that challenging element.

The idea of adapting the paladin into a fighting monk is interesting, having something a bit along the line of the sohei...might be doable with the cleric class. That's also why I was considering the Druid class as the element of balance and nature could fit well with a setting where you have to deal and appease the various Nature Spirits. The Barbarians cleric would fit well with the Barbarians class too.

The Champion and Greenbound are an interesting suggestion, I'll have to give it done thought.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Michael Tumey »

In Japanese folklore, shugenja, also called yamabushi, are primarily tengu and not hengeyokai, though in consideration of OA allowance of hengeyokai as shugenja, I would advocate both tengu and hengeyokai, in addition to human as practitioners.

In the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG), yamabushi are priests of Shugendo, and paladins are the class that yamabushi are based.

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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Boneguard »

Thanks for the imput.

I was also considering using a modified paladin or the maybe the druid as a yamabushi...then again the Druid might work better as a base for a Shaman for the barbarians.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Princess Strega »

Also if you want to inject a level of Japanese fantasy into your game I highly recommend checking out Kitsunemori.

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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Boneguard »

I just though about another race I had forgotten: the Ogre-mage. Already done for 2nd edition, so it would be easy to port over to 1st. All I would need to do would be to change the classes. I'm considering Bushi, Samurai and Wujen. Not sure about the Kensai thought.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Big Mac »

Boneguard wrote:I would need your help with an idea I have - mostly because I don't own much in matter of 3rd ed/pathfinder product. The idea is to expand my 1st edition Oriental adventure with some elements from 3rd Ed Oriental Adventure/d20 Rokugan
Sounds interesting. What setting are you using? Are you using Kara-Tur, making a 1e version of Rokugan or doing something else?
Boneguard wrote:So far I was considering using the core rule book of all three above mentionned game with Creatures of Rokugan to help me with the Retro-harvesting.

1) Races and Monster Descritions
Here I was considering harvesting the Nemezi, Vanara, Naga, Bakemono and potentially the Tengo and the Kitsune. Both figuring out the stats for them as a Character Race and their "Monster Manual" sheet if they dont exist in 1st ed OA.

The Horde boxset, make reference of an oriental elven community in the area North of Shou Lung, I was considering adapting them too and making them and half-elf very rare.
I've not noticed those elves before. Do they have a name?
Boneguard wrote:Do you have any other suggestion here for additional race, or any other help/material/recommendation
You might want to consider looking at the d20PFSRD page for races. The conversion process for Pathfinder RPG to 1st Edition will be a bit different, but they have stuff from several products, as well as just Paizo's converted SRD. Maybe there are a few extra races that would work for you.
Boneguard wrote:2) Class
I always felt that somethnig was missing here. Shukenja are a great class, but it is very limited in most encounter as it cannot kill any living creature...plus only Hengeyokai and Human can be shukenja, so what about the other races? No healer? One of my friend has ported over the cleric from "regular AD&D" for his game, I would like something a bit more setting appropriate.

I was considering either adapting one or several of the following class(es) or harvesting a clerical class form 3rd ed (if any) that would be appropriate.
- Barbarian cleric (Dragon magazine #109 or Complete barbarian)
- Druid
- Shaman (Dragon magazine #141 or 2nd edition stand alone class)
- Cloistered cleric (Dragon magazine #68)

Do you have any other suggestion here for classes, or any other help/material/recommendation
Ravilla (from Greyhawk's subsetting: Chainmail) has some dueling societies that fit in well. One is even named after a weapon from the 1e Oriental Adventures.
Boneguard wrote:3) Anything else you would recommend harvesting or proting over?
You might want to look at the Mahasarpa Campaign Setting to see if any of that looks interesting.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Boneguard »

Big Mac wrote: Sounds interesting. What setting are you using? Are you using Kara-Tur, making a 1e version of Rokugan or doing something else?
They would be used in Kara-Tur, as I'm more familliar with this setting. I figured it's going to be easier for me that way than trying to "recreate" Rokugan and probably just succeed in creating a pale imitation.
Big Mac wrote: I've not noticed those elves before. Do they have a name?
The only "Oriental elves" reference that I know was in the FR "The Horde" Boxset. They mention a ruin "Tsaparang Foprteress" in Southern Shou Lung that was built by a people called Maviddi. The Maviddi ghost and Spirit will destroy anyone who comes to the ruin with the exception of HALF-ELVES with Maviddi blood no matter how distant. This could imply that the Maviddi were an Oriental Elf.

Also Eke Bayalun Khadun (the Horde Trilogy and Boxset) is a Half-maraloi, an ancient Eastern offshoot of the elvish Nation.
Big Mac wrote:You might want to consider looking at the d20PFSRD page for races. The conversion process for Pathfinder RPG to 1st Edition will be a bit different, but they have stuff from several products, as well as just Paizo's converted SRD. Maybe there are a few extra races that would work for you.
That will be something I'll definitively look into and it will help get a feel for the conversion.
Big Mac wrote:Ravilla (from Greyhawk's subsetting: Chainmail) has some dueling societies that fit in well. One is even named after a weapon from the 1e Oriental Adventures.
Thanks, I'll check it out too.
Big Mac wrote: You might want to look at the Mahasarpa Campaign Setting to see if any of that looks interesting.
I had looked atvit and felt at that time it would not be useful, but now with this projection, it will be work looking into it again.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Boneguard »

Racewise I think I'll boil it down, at first, to :
- Nezumi;
- Vanara;
- Elf, Oriental;
- Naga;
- Yuan-ti Pureblood.
-Mountain Spirit Folk.

And in second place :
- Kitsune (3e);
- Bakemono;
- Tengu;
- Ogre-mage;
- Common Oni;
- Goblin-Rat;
- Kenku;
- Kala;
- Kappa;
- Hobgoblin;
- Ogre.
Hmmm, maybe I should considération a type of Oriental Humanoid Handbook.

Classwise I'm thinking :
- Barbarians shaman;
- Yamabushi (either a modified paladin or ranger depending on how much spells/ability I want to give to this fighter-monk hermit).
- Shindoga (modified Druid)



How does that sound to you?
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Princess Strega »

Boneguard wrote:How does that sound to you?
Sounds interesting.

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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Michael Tumey »

Here are some links to Kaidan class archetypes, prestige classes, races and subsystems to expand your ideas on (of course these are all PF based):

Yamabushi (paladin archetype), Tengu Kensei (magus archetype), Yojimbo (ranger archetype), Samurai archetypes: Kuge, Nitojutsu Sensei, Tajiya, Yabusame; Horimyo (tattoist wizard archetype), Onmyoji (origami wizard archetype), Mushakemono (hengeyokai racial paragon class), Bone-Breaker (kappa racial paragon class), Hishoken (tengu racial paragon class), Yakuza Bushi (fighter archetype) - these are a large selection of the best archetypes, though there are a dozen more that are less optimal.

We will have archetypes for clerics/oracles and new classes in the setting guide when that is released later this year.

Available Kaidan prestige classes that might be worth looking at, include: Bugyo (aristocratic PrC), Mosa (body guard PrC), and Machi-Yakko (yakuza boss PrC).

Kaidan currently features the following races, besides human: hengeyokai, kappa, and tengu, though we plan to include kitsune and korobokuru in the upcoming setting guide.

Two subsystems of Kaidan that I think you should definitely consider is rules for creating custom Samurai Houses, and custom Yakuza Gangs - both are based on the PF Gamemastery Guide City stat block.

All current Kaidan products can be found here. Read the reviews, most are glowing!

Note: concepts like "oriental elves" weren't included in Kaidan, because the goal was never to D&Dify the orient, rather to use folklore and culture to be as authentic to feudal Japan as possible.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Boneguard »

Thank you Micheal, I'll most definitively take a look of those link (maybe over the weekend though) and see what how they csn help me.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Michael Tumey »

Something still in development is an interesting idea for an itinerant Shinto-based cleric. In Kaidan, most kami spirits tend to be anchored to a specific locale like a grove of trees, a specific mountain, river or stretch of beach, waterfalls and other locations of natural beauty. Being anchored means that the powers a kami can provide to its clerics has a limited range (1 to 10 mile radius). The itinerant cleric monk travels about the country, thus is disadvantaged in not being near the vicinity of a particular kami spirit. To accomodate this the itinerant priest monk has one permanent domain: Travel, while the other 2 domains are dependant on whichever kami spirit is near the priest at the time. At the end of period of travel, the itinerant must attempt to commune with the local kami spirit, and at its completion gains acess to the 2 domains empowered by that particular kami spirit. Thus the itinerant priest monk's domains (and spell access) changes depending on where they are at the time.

Another new class we're looking to develop is an Acupuncturist, loosely based on the alchemist class, with the ability to temporarily improve physical stats while decreasing mental stats, ability to affect the stats of an opponent as well as cause paralyzation, and even death, using acupuncture needles as his weapon/tool of choice. This class would probably gain Sneak Attack using acupuncture needles at the same progression as a rogue. The acupuncturist would also gain some healing abilities, perhaps access to healing spells as well.

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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Boneguard »

A little sneak peak of my work

The Maraloi and their extinct cousin the Maviddi are an Oriental offshoot of the elvish Nation. Of High Elf blood, these two people has come to Shou Lung during the Great Migration which occured during the First Crown War several Millenia ago. Leaving their war-thorn Nations, they headed East, crossing the Steppes and settles in what is modern day Southern Shou Lung. Nowaday their migration is all but forgotten except in some of the oldest Steppes Barbarians legends.

An isolated people, especially after extermination of the Maviddi, they remain hidden in their elvish forested realms, a mix of traditional elvish and Shou lung culture. Over the years they have adopted Bushido and have integrated the elvish pantheon in the Host of the Celestial Court. Their clothes and armor tends more towards Oriental style, whereas the weapon tends more towards the traditional weaponry of their people. For exemple a Elvish daisho consist of a long sword and a short sword rathater than a katana and wakizashi.

Honor is another concept that was integrated and adapted in elvish society. Being more individualistic, personal honor is more important than family honor and one's action doesn't reflect as directly on one's family (most character would use "Character without Families" table on page 35). also an increase of20 points of personal honor will increase the family honor and a only a lost of 10 or more honors will reduce the family honor.

character with Family honor (and NPC):
01-44 Searvants, laborer, peasants, forester and farmers starts with 8
45-70 Craftsman starts with 12
71-87 Tradesman starts with 16
88-95 Low nobility stats with 20
96-99 Upper Nobility starts with 24
00 The Royal family starts at 28

a Samurai who doesn't wish to roll on the family Table will be consider lower nobility and will start with a base 20 honor.


How do you like this adaptation of the Elf for an 1st ed OA game. Although I use Kara-Tur, I tried to keep the description as generic as possible to be used with other Woprld/setting.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Michael Tumey »

It works.

Note that I wouldn't create elves of Kaidan, as elves aren't a part of Japanese folklore, and Kaidan is meant to as authentic as possible, but I get your desire to include elves in your game - so your suggestion above makes sense.

Also you mention basing your campaign on Kara-Tur. The original creator of Kosakura, the Japan land of Kara-Tur (who is a member of this board) highly praises Kaidan's content and concept. Just thought I'd mention it...

By the way, did my links in my previous post offer any help in your project?

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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Boneguard »

Michael Tumey wrote:It works.

Note that I wouldn't create elves of Kaidan, as elves aren't a part of Japanese folklore, and Kaidan is meant to as authentic as possible, but I get your desire to include elves in your game - so your suggestion above makes sense.
Normally, II would not have necessarely added them, but as they were mentionned in the 2nd edition "Horde" Boxed set...I figured why not. It's also why I'm making them more of an isolationniste people and only mentionned in the odd, Ancient stories
Michael Tumey wrote:By the way, did my links in my previous post offer any help in your project?
Oh yes, Sorry for not mentionning it earlier, it will be of great help for me thank you.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

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Sneak peak #2 The pureblood yuan-ti.

Pureblood yuan-ti are one of the three types of yuan-ti. Created from the mating of two histachii, they are the one that can more easily pass as human and infiltrate human society. Halfbreed yuan-ti are created from the mating of a histachii and any try yuan-ti and the mating of two yuan-ti produce an abomination yuan-ti.

The mindless histachii are created from the constant supply of captured humans, transformed by the Black Broth…a creation of their Dark God. The gestation period for yuan-ti young is about 60 months. Approximately 30% of the resulting creatures are so deformed. that they die shortly after birth. This gives the yuan-ti a very low growth rate but is counterbalanced by their extremely long lifespans. Pureblood yuan-ti age as do gray elves.

They once held a great empire that spanned much of the southern jungles of Kara-Tur. In forgotten corners of the land, crumbling basalt temples stand in mute testament to their once far-reaching grasp. Yuan-ti temples are usually huge basalt edifices with no windows and only one entrance. The walls are carved with revolting scenes involving yuan-ti, humans, and unspeakable creatures from the outer planes. Even abandoned ruins are places of great evil and are almost always infested with foul monsters. Torture of helpless subjects is a favorite pastime of the yuan-ti, and implements of torture are easily found in their places of worship.

Yuan-ti build dwellings both above and below ground, and their temples are known for mazes of tunnels and dungeon chambers. Their lodgings usually consist of squat stone buildings (normally of volcanic rock), each with 2-5 rooms and an underground chamber. In yuan-ti communities, these underground chambers are connected to each other and to underground meeting places, throne rooms, treasuries, etc. Even a small yuan-ti village has an extensive underground layout. Any yuan-ti community will be ruled by the strongest abomination in the community. This creature’s basic duties are to settle disputes, oversee the protection of the community, and regulate the activities of that community’s purebloods in the human world. Even though yuan-ti are chaotic evil, they are extremely intelligent. As they do not wish to further reduce their population, physical combat is rare among the yuan-ti. Instead, many disputes are settled by weaponless combat that can easily be stopped short of fatality.
Adapted from “Ecology of the Yuan-ti Dragon Magazine #151

Every Pureblood yuan-ti has an 80% chance to pass for human; despite their human appearance, they have a natural AC of 8 and they double their hit points at 1st level (before constitution modifier).They also have a 60’ infravision. If psionic rules are used, they have the normal chance to have psionic power.

Pureblood yuan-ti can be kensai, bushi, wu jen, yakuza and ninja (as well as the Genin NPC class).

Naturally magical, they have a 20% magical resistance, which also affect beneficial spells. They also have natural spell casting ability and are able to cast: Cause Fear, Darkness 15’ Radius, Snake Charm, Stick to Snake, Neutralize poison, Suggestion, and Polymorph other once a day each.

All pureblood yuan-ti characters are able to speak the following languages in addition to that of their chosen alignment: yuan-ti, snake & snakelike creatures (Naga (true and shinomen), Ophidian), Hannya (oriental hag) the trade language and the local National human language (eg. Shou, Kozakuran etc.). Regardless of intelligence, they can learn 2 additional languages.

Pureblood yuan-ti characters add a bonus of + 1 to their initial dexterity thanks to their snake-like heritage. A very intelligence race they also add a +1 to their intelligence. Skilled infiltrator they also add a +1 to their charisma score. Pureblood yuan-ti receive a +5% to their Move Silently score, a +5% to their Hide in Shadow score and a +10% to their Climb Wall score.

Edit: I've modified the Natural AC to 8 instead of 4. Although Yuan-ti in the MM has an Ac of 4 (o for snake part) some of it is probably attributed to higher dex or armor, whereas an Natural AC of 8 isn't too game breaking.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

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Should I include the NPC/PC class from Dragon magazine to my list? More specifically the Geisha (NPC), Genin (NPC), Escrimador, Piao Shih and both Sumatori (NPCs)
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

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Mini update, the Monster Manual sheet for the Naga, Vanara and Nezumi are done, they may not be perfect, but they aren't too bad. For the Naga I used the 3rd ed core book and the Creture of Rokugan book to build them...so they are a hybrid of both version in a way.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

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It's been a couple month since I was able to look at this project...between translating a website, my day job and preparing for 2 job competitions, something as to be put aside fir a moment. I'll try to finish the Naga this weekend and the complete the remaining races.
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

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Been working a bit on my Naga. I'm considering giving them Movd Silently and Evade as racial bonus (rising as per a ninja of equal level). Figuring slithering is pretty quiet and the ability to unhinge their bone and scaly skin makes évasion à bit easier.

I also got the Pathfinder compatible "Heroes of the Jade Iath" for extra material ( especialy somr if the future races I wish to convert)
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

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Here is the Naga blurb. Mostly adapted from the 3rd ed OA core, Rokugan Monster and setting book.

An ancient race, the Naga has only recently awakened from a deep slumber of several centuries. Strangers in a strange world, they are very secretive and rarely seen, trying to regain their lost glory. The Naga are on the whole a peaceful people, preferring tranquility and serenity to conflict. Notable exception to this rule exists among the Asp Bloodline, but for the most part the Naga are not warlike. The race largely organized along the line of their 5 bloodlines each on them controlling the remnants of their once great cities.

Naga are serpentine in appearance with a humanoid upper torso sitting atop a long sinuous tail resembling that of a great snake. Naga have a wide variety of coloration, the most common color is green, but there are many variation including browns and even blacks. Their skin is scaled with serpentines eyes and fangs. Mutation sometimes occurs, especially amongst the cobra bloodline. A Naga’s height is equal to about a third of his full length, two-third if he coils himself. They age like gnomes.
Naga share a group consciousness called Akasha, through which a Naga communicate with other in a combination of speech and impressions sent through the group consciousness; making it difficult to communicate properly with non-Naga.

Every Naga has an AC a natural AC of 8, and can move silently and evade as a ninja of equal level thank to their serpentine nature.They also have a 60’ infravision. All female can Transform their tail into 2 legs at will (Becoming Medium size and losing swim bonus or constrict attack) it take a full round to transform from one for to the other. All Naga can bite for 1d4 points of damages. If psionic rules are used, they have the normal chance to have psionic power

Naga can be Shukenja, bushi, and wu jen.

Asps can spit venom to a range of 10’ causing 2d4 point of damage on a failed save. Chameleons are powerful swimmer can camouflage in natural surroundings. Cobra can deliver a poison with a bit, causing 1d8 point of damage on a failed save. With a successful grapple, constrictor can constrict his foe causing 2d8+2 points of damage per round until the hold is broken. Constrictors, Asp and Cobra double their hit points at 1st level (before constitution modifier) and take damage as a large creature. .

All naga characters are able to speak the following languages in addition to that of their chosen alignment: Shinomen Naga, snake & snakelike creatures (Naga (true), Ophidian, Yuan-ti), the trade language and the local National human language (eg. Shou, Kozakuran etc.). They can learn an additional language for every point of intelligence above 15.

Naga characters add a bonus of + 1 to their initial dexterity thanks to their snake-like heritage. Constrictor also has a +1 to strength and a +1 to constitution. Naga receive a +10% to their Move Silently score and a +5 % to their evade score. Unlike ninja, their gain the same dexterity bonus to their evade skill. A 16 dexterity awards them an extra +2%, a 17 dexterity an extra +3%, a 18 dexterity awards them an extra +5% and a 19 dexterity awards them an extra 8%
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Boneguard
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Re: Need Help in Retro-harvesting 3rd Ed OA/Rokugan

Post by Boneguard »

A few adjustment were added:

Naga and yuan-ti were given infravison,
Nage a bite attack (1d4)
Asp and Cobra were upgraded to double starting HP but taking "Large" damage.

Als always all CC and suggestions are welcomed.
Roleplaying is not a Hobby...it's a Way of Life.

Consolidated projet thread

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