[WotC] Oriental Adventures

A place where the monk class won't feel like an oddball. Kara-Tur can be discussed in the FR sub-forum. Rokugan can be discussed in it's own forum. Mahasarpa and other Asian-themed worlds can be discussed here.
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[WotC] Oriental Adventures

Post by Princess Strega »

This topic is being archived from the Oriental Adventures forum at Wizards of the Coast, prior to that forum being deleted. It was posted on Jul 25, 2008 15:38:06
gnomemaster wrote:So I'm thinking about a project that moves Oriental Adventures to 4e, what, in your opinion, did OA need the most work on? For me, it's the names. I don't understand and oriental language, so it just made it harder for me to work with. What about you?

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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goblin_pride wrote:
gnomemaster wrote:So I'm thinking about a project that moves Oriental Adventures to 4e, what, in your opinion, did OA need the most work on? For me, it's the names. I don't understand and oriental language, so it just made it harder for me to work with. What about you?
Which oriental language is giving you trouble?

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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ranger_reg wrote:
gnomemaster wrote:So I'm thinking about a project that moves Oriental Adventures to 4e, what, in your opinion, did OA need the most work on? For me, it's the names. I don't understand and oriental language, so it just made it harder for me to work with. What about you?
Get rid of the Rokugan trappings.

As for your difficulty in names, don't you have friends who are Asians in your area? If not, make friends.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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aran_kell wrote:
ranger_reg wrote:Get rid of the Rokugan trappings.

As for your difficulty in names, don't you have friends who are Asians in your area? If not, make friends.
indeed. if I want to play in Rokugan, I play L5R.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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lord_karsus wrote:-I am of the mind that an Oriental Adventures book should be wholly divorced from any setting period, be it Kara-Tur, Rokugan, whatever. That's harder to do with a niche product like this one is, though, as opposed to generic fantasy D&D.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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the_ubbergeek wrote:Albeity conversions and adaptations notes could be offered, and maybe a rough set of demo guideline, a Point of Light 'oriental' region/country/culture by example.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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lord_karsus wrote:
the_ubbergeek wrote:Albeity conversions and adaptations notes could be offered, and maybe a rough set of demo guideline, a Point of Light 'oriental' region/country/culture by example.
-Right. Also, things like "In Kara-Tur", "In Rokugan" (If WotC can still use it, I don't know) for spells, monsters, feats, whatever.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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ranger_reg wrote:
lord_karsus wrote:-I am of the mind that an Oriental Adventures book should be wholly divorced from any setting period, be it Kara-Tur, Rokugan, whatever. That's harder to do with a niche product like this one is, though, as opposed to generic fantasy D&D.
Perhaps, but you still need a "sandbox" for new OA readers. D&D have sandboxes in the form of Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and Eberron.

Plus, OA is a D&D supplement, not a standalone like D&D itself. Introducing an OA-tailored setting as a separate product can be taxing on the D&D consumers who have to buy three sets of products (D&D, OA, + setting) instead of just two.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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lord_karsus wrote:
ranger_reg wrote:Perhaps, but you still need a "sandbox" for new OA readers. D&D have sandboxes in the form of Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and Eberron.
-Right, which is why I said that because it's such a niche product, it's much harder to pull off, being fully 'generic'.
ranger_reg wrote:Plus, OA is a D&D supplement, not a standalone like D&D itself. Introducing an OA-tailored setting as a separate product can be taxing on the D&D consumers who have to buy three sets of products (D&D, OA, + setting) instead of just two.
-Which is why I said that it'd be better off not being inherently tied to any specific setting, be it Kara-Tur, Rokugan, if Eberron has anything that would fit, that. The Psionic Handbook is a D&D supplement that introduced a new genre into general D&D without creating a new world. In so much as it can, it'd be nice to see an Oriental Adventures book that did the same. My main gripe with OA is that it's usefulness is severely limited because I don't play in Rokugan. I have a character in my own setting who is from what would be the Orient, and I have to tailor a lot of stuff on my own because classes/feats/spells/etc. from Oriental Adventures aren't very applicable.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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darkness1970us wrote:Are you looking to do a straight conversion? I know that I'm working on an Oriental setting for 4E, but it is going to have very little to do with the 3.5 OA (Aside from several of the classes sharing names).

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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ranger_reg wrote:
My main gripe with OA is that it's usefulness is severely limited because I don't play in Rokugan.
Well, they did chose the wrong setting. It doesn't mean the concept of having a setting included in OA is wrong.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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lord_karsus wrote:
ranger_reg wrote:Well, they did chose the wrong setting. It doesn't mean the concept of having a setting included in OA is wrong.
-Rokugan, Kara-Tur, something else, it'd all be the same. My own Orient, in my own setting, isn't Rokugan. My own Orient, in my own setting, isn't Kara-Tur. My own Orient, in my own setting, isn't anything that it's not. With general D&D, things are so vague that you can do whatever with them that you want, because it's so general. With OA, because it's a niche product, things are going to be a little more limited. By including a setting to tailor everything around, you are limited your already limited material. Get what I mean?

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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kitsunewarlock wrote:I made my own OA setting too, and even changed the rules from d20 to make it adapable to a diceless forum setting (well, it evolved that way over the 3 years it took me to make this RPG). Adapting new games/modules for old settings is always fun.

BTW, the best books for OA (mechanically): Magic of Rokugan, Way of the Samurai, Creatures of Rokugan...The worst are Way of the Thief and Bloodspeakers (not done by AEG fyi).

Bloodspeakers is horrible. 5th level spell; no exp; +1 feat permanently, just for a 15 dance check...and increase the dance check by 5 for each prerequisite you want to bypass.

And lest we forget the blood shield that reduces damage taken by "/". Aaah...that extra / life will really help.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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ranger_reg wrote:
lord_karsus wrote:-Rokugan, Kara-Tur, something else, it'd all be the same. My own Orient, in my own setting, isn't Rokugan. My own Orient, in my own setting, isn't Kara-Tur. My own Orient, in my own setting, isn't anything that it's not. With general D&D, things are so vague that you can do whatever with them that you want, because it's so general. With OA, because it's a niche product, things are going to be a little more limited. By including a setting to tailor everything around, you are limited your already limited material. Get what I mean?
No.

If you can use the material to make an original flavored setting out of OA, then more power to you.

Unless you want to label OA product as "For Veterans Only," allow new readers a starting point, a sandbox, in the form of an appropriate setting for D&D/OA (e.g., Kara-Tur) not d20/OA (e.g., Rokugan).

Get what I mean?

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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lord_karsus wrote:
ranger_reg wrote:Unless you want to label OA product as "For Veterans Only," allow new readers a starting point, a sandbox, in the form of an appropriate setting for D&D/OA (e.g., Kara-Tur) not d20/OA (e.g., Rokugan).
-None of which changes the fact that what I just said is going to be a problem, yet again. Kara-Tur =/= Rokugan =/= Asia =/= My Oriental Campaign Area.

-If I want Kara-Tur to get information, I want to see a Kara-Tur sourcebook, implementing the rules in such an OA book. If I want Rokugan to get information, I want to see a Rokugan sourcebook, implementing the rule in such an OA book. Just like the Core D&D books (in 3e, at least) don't have a real setting in the rulebooks.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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Dark_Wizard_02 wrote:The core books don't have an exact setting integrated with them, yet everyone who plays D&D uses the core rules for their own games with their own settings. WotC adapts the core rules to their published settings in separate lines.

Even though 3e made use of Greyhawk, it only used vague bits and pieces, mostly for the deities. In 4E, we get bits and pieces of an unidentified core "setting," but nothing too specific. At least nothing that when pieces together forms anything on the scale of the full setting Wizards releases.

The mistake of 3e OA was to link any setting to the book at all. It tried to do too many things at once, pleasing neither those who wanted lots of crunch for OA style games or the setting fans who wanted a good intro book for the setting. It eats up page space that could further elaborate on mechanics, provide more detailed rules, or spend more time highlighting themes and archetypes that are often recur in OA style games. If WotC were to ever consider a third attempt at OA, this sort of niche product needs all the initial sales it can get.

As for the naming found in OA (Kara-Tur or Rokugan) I found the place names particularly jarring, especially when they translate generic words like "mountain" or "castle" into Asian languages. It comes off as cheesy, trying too hard to convey an exotic vibe. Since it's not consistent - for no reason they sometimes switch back to English when referring to a different but similar locales (i.e. other nearby mountains) - it adds an additional layer of unnecessary complexity to something that should be clear.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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ranger_reg wrote:
lord_karsus wrote:-None of which changes the fact that what I just said is going to be a problem,...
Not a problem, IMNSHO.

I don't want the full detail of the setting, just a setting primer, or a campaign model as they call it in d20 Modern. It's no more different than having a city setting included in 4e DMG.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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lord_karsus wrote:
ranger_reg wrote:Not a problem, IMNSHO.
-Yes, yes it is a problem. As I said a few posts ago, half of the 3e OA book is useless to me, because Feats, Skills, Items, Spells, Classes, Prestige Classes, and more are tailored specifically for the Rokugan setting. I have to take these feats and skills and so on, and finagle them, so that they work in my own setting. Now, mind you, in a book that introduces new rules without a setting, like the Psionic Handbook, this was never a problem.

-A sample city, kingdom, whatever, is fine. But, don't tie the entire book, with all of the mechanics and lore contained there within, to this one sample city, kingdom, whatever. That defeats the purpose of a 'general' rulebook, and makes it a setting-specific product.

-Dark Wizard put it very succinctly in his post.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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ranger_reg wrote:
lord_karsus wrote:-Yes, yes it is a problem. As I said a few posts ago, half of the 3e OA book is useless to me, because Feats, Skills, Items, Spells, Classes, Prestige Classes, and more are tailored specifically for the Rokugan setting. I have to take these feats and skills and so on, and finagle them, so that they work in my own setting. Now, mind you, in a book that introduces new rules without a setting, like the Psionic Handbook, this was never a problem.
Okay, let's clarify. I too don't like integrated setting. Rokugan is an example of what NOT to do with the D&D rulebook. The setting is completely wrong for D&D/OA.

However, have a setting that complements the established OA rule -- like Greyhawk complements the D&D rulebooks -- is fine with me.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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lord_karsus wrote:
ranger_reg wrote:However, have a setting that complements the established OA rule -- like Greyhawk complements the D&D rulebooks -- is fine with me.
-Yes, this is fine. Having a separate world for the rules is fine. I just don't want to see the rules tailored specifically to this world.

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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merrikcale wrote:
ranger_reg wrote:Get rid of the Rokugan trappings.
yeah. Bring back Kara Tur

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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wancow wrote:
lord_karsus wrote:-I am of the mind that an Oriental Adventures book should be wholly divorced from any setting period, be it Kara-Tur, Rokugan, whatever. That's harder to do with a niche product like this one is, though, as opposed to generic fantasy D&D.
Agree 100%

Oriental Adventures 1E stood on its own without any maps.

And, as it was primarily based upon Japanese history/mythology, trying to force it to fit Tibet, China and South East Asia simply did not work!

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Re: [WotC] Oriental Adventures

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Einlanzer wrote:I agree. Although I vastly prefer Kara-Tur to Rokugen, the way it should be done is that OA rules come in the form of a supplementary rule-only book that introduces the power sources, classes, feats, basic deities, etc. that are all applicable to any Asian-flavored setting; then release campaign setting sourcebooks similar to the Forgotten Realms Campaign guide be released separately.

The thing that sucks is that it isn't likely WotC will consider it a good business venture so they'll probably never do it, unless 4e goes on long enough for them to decide to do an Asian flavored Player's Handbook (4 or 5 maybe).

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