Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

A place where the monk class won't feel like an oddball. Kara-Tur can be discussed in the FR sub-forum. Rokugan, Mahasarpa and other Asian-themed worlds can be discussed here.
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Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Big Mac » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:45 pm

I know that Kara-Tur allows an oriental tie-in with Forgotten Realms.

Spelljammer uses some of the oriental cultures of Toril as minor Spelljamming powers, so that creates a tie-in for that campaign setting.

And Shattered Lands is creating a fanon tie-in with Dragonlance.

But I was wondering if anyone has made crossover settings that allow for oriental gameplay in other campaign settings. Does anybody know of any projects?
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Ashtagon » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:55 pm

Greyhawk has some fanon (possibly canon) oriental cultures to the far west, beyond the sea of dust and Bakulini regions.

Mystara has Ochalea and Myoshima. I've sometimes toyed with the idea of giving Belissaria some Chinese trappings, although that would be in severe turmoil post-WotI timeline. That would tie in with the idea hinted at in DotE, where Ochaleans were a sub-culture from Alphatia.

Nothing for Dragonlance or Ravenloft that I know of.
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Havard » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:57 pm

Ashtagon wrote:Nothing for Dragonlance or Ravenloft that I know of.
Ofcourse, the Solmanic Knights do have some similarities with Samurai...

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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Big Mac » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:50 pm

Havard wrote:
Ashtagon wrote:Nothing for Dragonlance or Ravenloft that I know of.
Ofcourse, the Solmanic Knights do have some similarities with Samurai...
I did already mention the forthcoming Shattered Lands setting. That is Dragonlance. I've seen a few sneak-peeks and it looks very interesting. I might start a thread for it.

As for Ravenloft, that is a demi-plane, so could connect to any world and suck in anyone. Some Chinese ghost stories might be good inspiration for a realm in Ravenloft.
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by agathokles » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:13 pm

Ravenloft does have two Oriental domains: I'Cath, ruled by demon tree Tsien Chiang (an evil, shapechanging treant); and Rokushima Taiyoo, ruled by the ghost of the former daimyo.

As mentioned by Ashtagon, Mystara, in addition to the Chinese-inspired Ochalea, has an entire Oriental moon, Myoshima, dominated by Rakasta with a variety of Asian cultures, including Japanese and south-east Asian.

Birthright doesn't have any Oriental land. However, only one continent of the planet is described.

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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Big Mac » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:30 am

agathokles wrote:Ravenloft does have two Oriental domains: I'Cath, ruled by demon tree Tsien Chiang (an evil, shapechanging treant); and Rokushima Taiyoo, ruled by the ghost of the former daimyo.
That sounds good. They would be good places for Kara-Tur or Rokugan characters (or even characters from the other oriental settings) could get sucked into.
agathokles wrote:As mentioned by Ashtagon, Mystara, in addition to the Chinese-inspired Ochalea, has an entire Oriental moon, Myoshima, dominated by Rakasta with a variety of Asian cultures, including Japanese and south-east Asian.
He mentioned it, but your description is better (this sort of thing is why I'd love to see an encyclopedia of Mystara canon).
agathokles wrote:Birthright doesn't have any Oriental land. However, only one continent of the planet is described.
The fans could make a "Shattered Lands" for Birthright and take all the iconic elements of Birthright and give them an oriental twist.
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Greywolf » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:55 pm

Ashtagon wrote:Greyhawk has some fanon (possibly canon) oriental cultures to the far west, beyond the sea of dust and Bakulini regions.
This concurs with the best of my research.

For some reason, though, it is hard for people (DMs and PCs) to think of Kara-Tur as other than "the East". They will say in Greyhawk, "That samurai is from the East." I have been satisfied a little in thinking that in our world, North Americans travel west to go to the Far East.

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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Jadeite » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:52 am

Ravenloft also has the indianesque domain of Sri-Raji. And the continent of Sarlona on Eberron is also rather oriental.

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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Big Mac » Fri May 14, 2010 2:32 am

Greywolf wrote:
Ashtagon wrote:Greyhawk has some fanon (possibly canon) oriental cultures to the far west, beyond the sea of dust and Bakulini regions.
This concurs with the best of my research.

For some reason, though, it is hard for people (DMs and PCs) to think of Kara-Tur as other than "the East". They will say in Greyhawk, "That samurai is from the East." I have been satisfied a little in thinking that in our world, North Americans travel west to go to the Far East.
I guess the flat maps, of the real world (which most fantasy worlds take the baggage of) confuse people into thinking that the international dateline is not just an arbitary thing. West and east are a lot more abstract than north and south, because you can travel west (or east) all the way around the world.

I could even see someone making a map of the real-world that moves America from the "west" and makes it the far easten continent, to the right of China and Japan.
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Greywolf » Fri May 14, 2010 3:21 am

Big Mac wrote:
Greywolf wrote:
Ashtagon wrote:Greyhawk has some fanon (possibly canon) oriental cultures to the far west, beyond the sea of dust and Bakulini regions.
This concurs with the best of my research.

For some reason, though, it is hard for people (DMs and PCs) to think of Kara-Tur as other than "the East". They will say in Greyhawk, "That samurai is from the East." I have been satisfied a little in thinking that in our world, North Americans travel west to go to the Far East.
I guess the flat maps, of the real world (which most fantasy worlds take the baggage of) confuse people into thinking that the international dateline is not just an arbitary thing. West and east are a lot more abstract than north and south, because you can travel west (or east) all the way around the world.

I could even see someone making a map of the real-world that moves America from the "west" and makes it the far easten continent, to the right of China and Japan.
I have definitely seen maps with the Americans on the right side of the paper. But then again, I wanted to be a cartographer when I was young.

The thing to keep in mind is that the oriental lands of the Greyhawk setting are part of the same land mass as the familiar lands of Greyhawk, kind of like Europe and Asia.

It might be fun to have an advanced party in the Greyhawk setting go exploring East to "go around the world" to find the orientals. Upon running into another land mass, which they would mistake for Kara-Tur, the explorers could call the people Orientals. Hmmm. It sounds just like explorers thinking that they made it to India. Thus, we have Indians.

Check out this map. http://www.sodabob.com/roleplay/dnd/Map ... roerth.gif

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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by ripvanwormer » Fri May 14, 2010 3:41 am

Greywolf already linked to a copy of the map of Oerth that appeared in the Dragon Magazine Annual #1. Presumedly "Erypt" and the "Gulf of Ra" are Egyptian style places, and the "Celestial Imperium" is a Chinese-style land. Presumedly Nippon is intended to be a Japanese-style land but its placement (next to the pseudo-Indian "Zindia" and separated from the Celestial Imperium by two seas and one of the largest mountain ranges on Oerth) makes that unacceptable to me, personally. I'd expect it to be more culturally similar to "Zindia," more Sri Lanka with Olman flavoring than Japan. Dragon #277 seems to have renamed "Nippon" as Ryuujin.

The Oriental Adventures hardcover was originally intended to be set on Oerth, according to Dragon #102. There's a portal to Kara-Tur in the Greyhawk adventure Fate of Istus. In Night Arrant, Gary Gygax called Oerth's "oriental" region Suhfang. Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk called it Shaofeng.

If you travel across the ocean to the east of the Flanaess, though, you end up in the Empire of Lynn and the lands of the Chainmail setting and Frank Mentzer's New Empyrea. All of those are basically European in flavor, being settled by migrants from the Flanaess long ago.

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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Greywolf » Fri May 14, 2010 3:49 am

Fate of Istus was made up of a number of short adventures. Do you remember which adventure had the portal to Kara-Tur?

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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Ashtagon » Fri May 14, 2010 6:12 am

Big Mac wrote:I could even see someone making a map of the real-world that moves America from the "west" and makes it the far easten continent, to the right of China and Japan.
This is the standard map layout in Japan.

http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/oda/evalua ... /map1.html
http://yeinjee.com/2009/japanese-antique-world-map/
http://assemblyman-eph.blogspot.com/200 ... -maps.html
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by ripvanwormer » Fri May 14, 2010 9:41 am

Categorizing Oerth's Asian-themed lands as "east" would be awkward since there's the world's biggest ocean and essentially another continent that way. It'd be like people on North America's east coast calling the west coast "east." Technically true, but way out of your way. The most direct route is due west, across the Baklunish lands, rather than all the way around the world across the Solnor and western Oerik.

The portal to Kara-Tur is found in the final Fate of Istus adventure, theone set in the Scarlet Brotherhood.

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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Havard » Fri May 14, 2010 10:06 am

ripvanwormer wrote:The portal to Kara-Tur is found in the final Fate of Istus adventure, theone set in the Scarlet Brotherhood.
So this is an official link between Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms?

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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by ripvanwormer » Fri May 14, 2010 6:42 pm

Havard wrote:So this is an official link between Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms?

Havard
Originally, it was intended as an explanation for why the Scarlet Brotherhood had Eastern-style monks and martial arts, but that was retconned out (in The Scarlet Brotherhood by Sean K. Reynolds). In current canon, they've always had martial arts since their days in the Suel Imperium a millennium ago (rather than being taught it only a century ago by monks from Kara-Tur, as Fate of Istus claims). They were also supposed to lose their monk powers (and assassin powers) as a result of the adventure (due to the monk and assassin classes being dropped from 2nd edition), and that's been retconned away too (the monk and assassin were returned to 2e in The Scarlet Brotherhood, and of course in 3e). Perhaps the portal's still considered to be there, but it no longer functions as an explanation for anything.

While Kara-Tur is mentioned a number of times in the adventure (and, more specifically, western T'u Lung), Toril is not mentioned, and it isn't stated that Kara-Tur exists on another world. It had already been established (in the 1987 Forgotten Realms Campaign Set) at this point (1989, when Fate of Istus was published) that Kara-Tur was part of Toril, but it doesn't say so in this particular adventure, and it seems the designers left it deliberately open where Kara-Tur actually was. It could be, from reading the adventure, that Kara-Tur is somewhere on Oerth, or another world entirely. When the setting was originally designed, it was world-neutral, and they actually shrank it to make it fit on Toril. Dragon #102 said that outright that the Oriental Adventures setting was part of Oerth.

I'd say there's no reason not to assume the Scarlet Brotherhood have a secret portal leading to T'u Lung on Toril, though. The portal is only one-way, so it's not very useful. In the adventure, the PCs have the option of going through it and ending up stranded in Kara-Tur. The portal could lead to what is now called Shaofeng on Oerth instead.

There are, of course, other connections between Oerth and Toril, including Spelljammer, Sigil, the Infinite Staircase, Ravenloft, and Sschindylryn's Gate.
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by night_druid » Fri May 14, 2010 6:50 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:When the setting was originally designed, it was world-neutral, and they actually shrank it to make it fit on Toril. Dragon #102 said that outright that the setting was part of Oerth.
How big was Kara-Tur originally? Its pretty freak'n huge on Toril as-is; I think its at least twice the size of Faerun (which is about the size of North America, IIRC).
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by ripvanwormer » Fri May 14, 2010 7:18 pm

That's recounted in Dragon #315:
It was only well after design was completed that the decision was made to attach Kara-Tur to the Forgotten Realms.

"The biggest problem we had was size," says Jeff Grubb, former Creative Director for Forgotten Realms. "Zeb had created a setting that was so big it held two Chinas. It would take months, maybe even years, to travel from one end to the other. So, when we hooked it up to the Realms we just changed the scale on the maps. To this day, very few people have ever said anything about it.
In Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms, the map scale was one inch = 90 miles. The scale in the adventure Ronin Challenge is one inch = 150 miles, but they're not exactly the same size. In the Kara-Tur Trail Map (also one inch = 90 miles), Chu'Teng and Suljeng are about two and a half inches apart (225 miles), while in Ronin Challenge those cities are about four inches apart (800 miles).

So, if my math and measurements are correct, it looks like Kara-Tur was originally about three and a half times as big as it is now.

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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by night_druid » Fri May 14, 2010 7:53 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:That's recounted in Dragon #315:

So, if my math and measurements are correct, it looks like Kara-Tur was originally about three and a half times as big as it is now.
:shock: Holy smokes, the original Kara-Tur would be a planet in and of itself! :lol:
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by night_druid » Sat May 15, 2010 4:56 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:So, if my math and measurements are correct, it looks like Kara-Tur was originally about three and a half times as big as it is now.
Actually, by surface area, it'd be closer to 12x bigger. Just a rough estimate, Kara-Tur is roughly somewhere between 12 & 18 million square miles on Toril...12x bigger would put it somewhere between 150 and 220 million miles... :shock:

Or roughly more land than all of earth, and probably danged near covering the whole planet! :lol:
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Big Mac » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:57 am

night_druid wrote:
ripvanwormer wrote:So, if my math and measurements are correct, it looks like Kara-Tur was originally about three and a half times as big as it is now.
Actually, by surface area, it'd be closer to 12x bigger. Just a rough estimate, Kara-Tur is roughly somewhere between 12 & 18 million square miles on Toril...12x bigger would put it somewhere between 150 and 220 million miles... :shock:

Or roughly more land than all of earth, and probably danged near covering the whole planet! :lol:
Not if you were talking about a planet bigger than Oerth.
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by night_druid » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:23 pm

Big Mac wrote:Not if you were talking about a planet bigger than Oerth.
Kinda my point; Kara-Tur wouldn't fit on a standard, Earth-sized world. It'd have to be scaled up to a size F planet, probably in the 12,000-mile diameter range. Which is freak'n huge. :lol:
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Kodyax » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:00 pm

Part of me is wondering how well one could adapt the Rokugan oriented material of the the 3E version to D&D's other known worlds like Greyhawk, FR and Eberron.

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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by night_druid » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:04 pm

Kodyax wrote:Part of me is wondering how well one could adapt the Rokugan oriented material of the the 3E version to D&D's other known worlds like Greyhawk, FR and Eberron.
<shrug>In what manner? Take a few elements from Rokugan and drop them in, or drop the whole continent in wholesale?
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Re: Oriental Adventures in other campaign settings

Post by Big Mac » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:11 pm

Kodyax wrote:Part of me is wondering how well one could adapt the Rokugan oriented material of the the 3E version to D&D's other known worlds like Greyhawk, FR and Eberron.
Well there is a fanon Oriental Dragonlance Project. I would love to see someone replace the "lost Kara-Tur" with a "Oriental Greyhawkian Fanon Setting".

You could make it very similar to Kara-Tur (so that the original modules work) but give it a slight twist.
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