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Re: EN World Article: Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:47 pm
by Yaztromo
It is just one of the many possibilities.
However in practice it is more or less as if East Asians were called "lemons" in Europe.
Not the nicest way.

Re: EN World Article: Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:46 pm
by willpell
I wouldn't be particularly bothered if someone called me a "sugarbeet" or "parsnip" or something. It's not like these labels impugn my character in any way, they're just kind of silly. I don't understand people who become offended over such trivialities.

Re: EN World Article: Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:21 pm
by shesheyan
Morfie wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:22 am
But I would call it Eastern Adventures.
Eastern, Middle East and Far East are problematic. They only make sense from an European (colonial) central point of view of the world. The planet is a sphere. There is always someone East of your location... :D ;)

Re: EN World Article: Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:10 pm
by AxesnOrcs
willpell wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:46 pm
I wouldn't be particularly bothered if someone called me a "sugarbeet" or "parsnip" or something. It's not like these labels impugn my character in any way, they're just kind of silly. I don't understand people who become offended over such trivialities.
And you're likely not part of a demographic that's vilified, ostracized, or unjustly mass imprisoned in your own country within living memory.

Re: EN World Article: Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:30 am
by willpell
AxesnOrcs wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:10 pm
willpell wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:46 pm
I wouldn't be particularly bothered if someone called me a "sugarbeet" or "parsnip" or something. It's not like these labels impugn my character in any way, they're just kind of silly. I don't understand people who become offended over such trivialities.
And you're likely not part of a demographic that's vilified, ostracized, or unjustly mass imprisoned in your own country within living memory.
The one thing has very little to do with the other. There are real problems (ostracization certainly counts), but there are also trivial non-problems (being "vilified" is only a problem to the extent that it impairs your ability to function in life, eg being denied jobs; if all it does is hurt your feelings, get over yourself already).

A vaguely insulting nickname is a trivial nuisance, and a wounded ego that flips out over nothing but words is the very definition of a first world problem. Which is appropriate, given that this is an article about a *ridiculously* first world hobby. The author feels guilty about how easy his life is, because he gets paid to write about a game that costs hundreds of dollars to play, catering to fans who often spend thousands more on miniatures and shit. Any one of the people he's white-knighting on behalf of would happily suffer any number of indignities if it meant they could have an economic outlook that was half as rosy as the one he feels bad about enjoying.

Re: EN World Article: Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:20 am
by Yaztromo
willpell wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:46 pm
I wouldn't be particularly bothered if someone called me a "sugarbeet" or "parsnip" or something. It's not like these labels impugn my character in any way, they're just kind of silly. I don't understand people who become offended over such trivialities.
I don't get offended by this when I go to Thailand, but willpell asked what "foreigners" are called in Thai and I replied. Sometimes it doesn't only matter strictly how you call somebody, but what you really mean with it and sometimes it is something OK, sometimes not.

Re: EN World Article: Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:21 am
by Yaztromo
AxesnOrcs wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:10 pm
willpell wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:46 pm
I wouldn't be particularly bothered if someone called me a "sugarbeet" or "parsnip" or something. It's not like these labels impugn my character in any way, they're just kind of silly. I don't understand people who become offended over such trivialities.
And you're likely not part of a demographic that's vilified, ostracized, or unjustly mass imprisoned in your own country within living memory.
Well... actually, I am.

Re: EN World Article: Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:36 am
by AxesnOrcs
Yaztromo wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:21 am
AxesnOrcs wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:10 pm
willpell wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:46 pm
I wouldn't be particularly bothered if someone called me a "sugarbeet" or "parsnip" or something. It's not like these labels impugn my character in any way, they're just kind of silly. I don't understand people who become offended over such trivialities.
And you're likely not part of a demographic that's vilified, ostracized, or unjustly mass imprisoned in your own country within living memory.
Well... actually, I am.
Well, that comment was directed at Willpell, but ok.

Re: EN World Article: Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:28 pm
by Dragonhelm
I've studied this topic some in the past to see where the issue lies, and from what I've read, a lot of it deals with the idea that you should not refer to people of that part of the world as "Oriental" rather than by their respective cultural names (i.e. Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, etc.). However, using the term "Oriental" to describe a product (like an Oriental rug) is okay. As such, I didn't see a problem with the term "Oriental Adventures" as it related to a product. This is in addition to the difference between Oriental and Occidental.

That being said, I still support DMs Guild products like Heroes of the Orient.

If 'Oriental Adventures' is to work, I think it needs to get away from real-world analogues. Unfortunately, this isn't true in Kara-Tur. The nations there are just fantasy versions of the Orient. Compare this to L5R or to Pathfinder's Tian Xia, which each take different approaches. My understanding is that Tian Xia is somewhat of an analogue, but not fully.

Despite my own feelings on the matter, I'm smart enough to know that we likely will not see an Oriental Adventures book again. However, I think WotC is smart in approaching this in terms of "Wuxia Adventures" in that it focuses on the wuxia/Hong Kong films of martial arts action (and everything that goes with that). While the term may not be applied exactly right, I think it's the way for them to go.

Re: EN World Article: Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:32 pm
by Havard
I agree that if the name is seen as offensive by some, then there are other alternatives out there.

But regardless of name, I do think gaming based on cultures and myths drawn from non-European cultures can be fun. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the focus so far has been mainly on some elements from Japan and to some extent China, but there is so much more that has not really been explored much from the entire Asian continent.

-Havard