[Rokugan] Did you know that Lot5R had a subsetting?

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[Rokugan] Did you know that Lot5R had a subsetting?

Post by Big Mac » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:54 pm

I was surprised to discover that Legend of the Five Rings had an Arabian subsetting created for it.

The subsetting is called Legend of the Burning Sands and has featured in a CCG game and a tabletop RPG.

I've created a thread about how it might fit in with Al-Qadim in the Al-Qadim forum: Anyone got Legend of the Burning Sands?.

But I thought I would start a thread here to find out if anyone has expanded Rokugan by adding Burning Sands to it.

Has anyone seen a world map of Rokugan (or at least a map that covers both the Lot5R and LotBS areas)?
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Re: [Rokugan] Did you know that Lot5R had a subsetting?

Post by night_druid » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:14 pm

IIRC, supposedly Rokugan and the setting of 7 Seas are on the same world, along with some arab-style setting.
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Re: [Rokugan] Did you know that Lot5R had a subsetting?

Post by ripvanwormer » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:35 pm

The world of Rokugan is evidently called (by them) Ningen-do.

Here's a map I found, though I can't vouch for its officialness.

Image

1. Avalon
2. Montaigne
3. Esien
4. Occupied Castille
5. Castille
6. Vodacce
7. Ussura
8. Crescent Empire
9. Cathay
10. Vendel/Vestenmannavnjar
11. Yodotai (more detailed map)
12. Burning Sands
13. Rokugan
14. Dark Lands
15. Isles of Madness
16. Midnight Archipelago
17. Guinea
18. The Dreamlands
19. Wulin
20. Blasted Lands
21. 1,000,000 Islands
22. Pangea
23. Icelands
24. Lands of Eternal Storms
25. The Frozen Land
26. Cabora
27. Syrneth Isles

Oceans
A. Frothing Sea
B. Trade Sea
C. Frozen Ocean
D. La Boca de Cielo
E. Forbidden Sea
F. The Mirror
G. Corridors of Flame
H. Sea of the Sun Goddess
I. Great Western Ocean
J. Sea of Dreams
K. Sea of Mists

There are a number of maps of the Seventh Sea continent, Theah, here.

The Legend of the Five Rings wiki mentions a number of lands not on that map, though, including the Ivory Kingdoms, which ought to be to the southwest of Rokugan on the above map but isn't, and the Senpet Empire, which seems to be part of the Burning Sands region. Here's a general article on the Gaijin (foreign) lands.

There should be two European-like lands across the sea from Rokugan that aren't part of the 7th Sea setting, or on the above map:
Merenae
Thrane

Here's a map of how the Burning Sands, Rokugan, Yodotai, and the Ivory Kingdoms fit together. The world map above puts Yodotai on the same continent as Theah, while this map puts it on the same continent as Rokugan, west of the Burning Sands.

I'm not sure the Seventh Sea setting and the Legend of the Five Rings setting really fit together, because you end up with two different Arabian areas (the Crescent Empire and Burning Sands) and two different East Asian settings (Rokugan and Cathay; one is Japan and one is China, but should they be that far apart?), as well as multiple Europes (Theah, the Roman-like Yodotai Empire, and I have no idea how Merenae and Thrane fit in - supposedly they're to the east or north of Rokugan). But that's what I found.

If you moved Rokugan's continent to just south of the Mirror Sea, so that the Burning Sands almost touched the Crescent Empire and the High Steppes almost touched Cathay, I think it would work a lot better. I'd keep Yodotai attached to the Burning Sands as a sort of Eastern Roman Empire once associated with the Italy-like nation of Vodacce and much of Theah. Maybe Merenae and Thrane could be Avalonian colonies in the Australia-like Dreamlands? Or if you removed the America-like continents, the Midnight Archipelago would be east of Rokugan and Merenae and Thrane could be islands there.

MODERATOR NOTE (by Big Mac): Discussion of Cathay, in the 7th Sea world, split off into a new thread called [7th Sea] Cathay: The Jewel of the East.

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Re: [Rokugan] Did you know that Lot5R had a subsetting?

Post by Big Mac » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:44 pm

night_druid wrote:IIRC, supposedly Rokugan and the setting of 7 Seas are on the same world, along with some arab-style setting.
The arab setting would be Legend of the Burning Sand. :)
ripvanwormer wrote:The world of Rokugan is evidently called (by them) Ningen-do.
I saw something else saying they call the world Rokugan. :? Maybe the name Nigen-do is a later addition.
ripvanwormer wrote:Here's a map I found, though I can't vouch for its officialness.
Thanks Rip. That is an awesome amount of research. :cool:
ripvanwormer wrote:There are a number of maps of the Seventh Sea continent, Theah, here.

The Legend of the Five Rings wiki mentions a number of lands not on that map, though, including the Ivory Kingdoms, which ought to be to the southwest of Rokugan on the above map but isn't, and the Senpet Empire, which seems to be part of the Burning Sands region. Here's a general article on the Gaijin (foreign) lands.

There should be two European-like lands across the sea from Rokugan that aren't part of the 7th Sea setting, or on the above map:
Merenae
Thrane

Here's a map of how the Burning Sands, Rokugan, Yodotai, and the Ivory Kingdoms fit together. The world map above puts Yodotai on the same continent as Theah, while this map puts it on the same continent as Rokugan, west of the Burning Sands.

I'm not sure the Seventh Sea setting and the Legend of the Five Rings setting really fit together, because you end up with two different Arabian areas (the Crescent Empire and Burning Sands) and two different East Asian settings (Rokugan and Cathay; one is Japan and one is China, but should they be that far apart?), as well as multiple Europes (Theah, the Roman-like Yodotai Empire, and I have no idea how Merenae and Thrane fit in - supposedly they're to the east or north of Rokugan). But that's what I found.
I agree with you there. I think it would be more logical for L5R and 7th Sea to be two different planets. Maybe you could put them both around the same sun (*cough* Alderacspace *cough*) but I'm not sure that is necessary or desirable.
ripvanwormer wrote:If you moved Rokugan's continent to just south of the Mirror Sea, so that the Burning Sands almost touched the Crescent Empire and the High Steppes almost touched Cathay, I think it would work a lot better. I'd keep Yodotai attached to the Burning Sands as a sort of Eastern Roman Empire once associated with the Italy-like nation of Vodacce and much of Theah. Maybe Merenae and Thrane could be Avalonian colonies in the Australia-like Dreamlands? Or if you removed the America-like continents, the Midnight Archipelago would be east of Rokugan and Merenae and Thrane could be islands there.
I've asked about this Rokugan/7th Sea connection over at the AEG forums. (Although I'm waiting for a moderator to surf past, work out I'm not a spammer and enable my post.) If AEG say they are two different worlds, I'll probably disregard the non-canon parts of the map you found and try to build in the official areas in the gaps that are left. (It isn't that I dislike 7th Sea, but considering the partial duplications and apparent clashes, it would be a waste to shoehorn two worlds into one.)
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Re: [Rokugan] Did you know that Lot5R had a subsetting?

Post by Havard » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:08 am

Big Mac wrote:
ripvanwormer wrote:The world of Rokugan is evidently called (by them) Ningen-do.
I saw something else saying they call the world Rokugan. :? Maybe the name Nigen-do is a later addition.
IIRC Rokugan is the name of the Kingdom/Realm, not the planet.
I've asked about this Rokugan/7th Sea connection over at the AEG forums. (Although I'm waiting for a moderator to surf past, work out I'm not a spammer and enable my post.) If AEG say they are two different worlds, I'll probably disregard the non-canon parts of the map you found and try to build in the official areas in the gaps that are left. (It isn't that I dislike 7th Sea, but considering the partial duplications and apparent clashes, it would be a waste to shoehorn two worlds into one.)
I suspect that they are interested in keeping the connection ambiguous for marketing reasons. This could lead to some fans wanting to buy both product lines for a complete world. Then again, if one product line turns out to become more popular than the other, they can choose to sell the more remote cultural regions under one line or the other.

Note that L5R and 7th Sea uses different variants of the same system, so having character from one of those regions meet others would require some conversion work.

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Re: [Rokugan] Did you know that Lot5R had a subsetting?

Post by Big Mac » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:29 am

Havard wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
ripvanwormer wrote:The world of Rokugan is evidently called (by them) Ningen-do.
I saw something else saying they call the world Rokugan. :? Maybe the name Nigen-do is a later addition.
IIRC Rokugan is the name of the Kingdom/Realm, not the planet.
Sure. I know that now, although I'm going to continue to tag threads as "[Rokugun]" as that is the name of the main campaign setting.
Havard wrote:
Big Mac wrote:I've asked about this Rokugan/7th Sea connection over at the AEG forums. (Although I'm waiting for a moderator to surf past, work out I'm not a spammer and enable my post.) If AEG say they are two different worlds, I'll probably disregard the non-canon parts of the map you found and try to build in the official areas in the gaps that are left. (It isn't that I dislike 7th Sea, but considering the partial duplications and apparent clashes, it would be a waste to shoehorn two worlds into one.)
I suspect that they are interested in keeping the connection ambiguous for marketing reasons. This could lead to some fans wanting to buy both product lines for a complete world. Then again, if one product line turns out to become more popular than the other, they can choose to sell the more remote cultural regions under one line or the other.
I've had confirmation at the AEG forums that Rokugan and 7th Sea are not on the same planet. (And yes I did sign up just to ask that. :) )
Havard wrote:Note that L5R and 7th Sea uses different variants of the same system, so having character from one of those regions meet others would require some conversion work.
Not an issue for me now, as I'm going with them being on two different worlds*. :)

* = Which of course allows for two AEG inspired crystal spheres. :P
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Re: [Rokugan] Did you know that Lot5R had a subsetting?

Post by Havard » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:43 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Havard wrote: IIRC Rokugan is the name of the Kingdom/Realm, not the planet.
Sure. I know that now, although I'm going to continue to tag threads as "[Rokugan]" as that is the name of the main campaign setting.
Yep. Although the planet is called Oerth, we still refer to it as Greyhawk. This would be the same thing. :)

Well, the comment from the AEG forum is somewhat ambigous:
Suburbaknght wrote: Both the 7th Sea supplement Cathay: Jewel of the East and the L5R supplement Imperial Histories state that Theah and Rokuan are on completely different world. That said, both supplements encourage GMs to have them share the same world if so desired; IH even gives some guidelines about gaijin cultures and their Thean equivalents.
Looks like they are both explicitly saying they are not the same world, yet encouraging fans to combine the two. Pretty interesting sales strategy :)


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Re: [Rokugan] Did you know that Lot5R had a subsetting?

Post by Big Mac » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:24 pm

Havard wrote:
Big Mac wrote:I've had confirmation at the AEG forums that Rokugan and 7th Sea are not on the same planet. (And yes I did sign up just to ask that. :) )
Well, the comment from the AEG forum is somewhat ambigous:
Suburbaknght wrote: Both the 7th Sea supplement Cathay: Jewel of the East and the L5R supplement Imperial Histories state that Theah and Rokuan are on completely different world. That said, both supplements encourage GMs to have them share the same world if so desired; IH even gives some guidelines about gaijin cultures and their Thean equivalents.
Looks like they are both explicitly saying they are not the same world, yet encouraging fans to combine the two. Pretty interesting sales strategy :)
Doesn't seem ambiguous to me. They are saying that the canon states that the two settings are not on the same world, but that anyone that wants to step outside the canon and combine the two should give it a go.

Lets face it, if someone like Knightfall came along and got interested, he would just kitbash the two together (and stick them in the World of Kulan) if he wanted to. You can't stop fans from doing that sort of thing, so giving advice on how to combine things (even though it goes against the canon) sounds like good customer support to me.

I think I will stick with the canon and spend more time learning about how Rokugan works for now. I think I'll come back to 7th Sea later.
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Re: [Rokugan] Did you know that Lot5R had a subsetting?

Post by Dragonhelm » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:38 am

I knew that Rokugan and 7th Sea were connected, but I had no idea about Legend of the Burning Sands. I see there's an RPG as well. Might be worth looking into.
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Re: [Rokugan] Did you know that Lot5R had a subsetting?

Post by Big Mac » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:19 pm

Dragonhelm wrote:I knew that Rokugan and 7th Sea were connected, but I had no idea about Legend of the Burning Sands. I see there's an RPG as well. Might be worth looking into.
You might want to surf over to my Anyone got Legend of the Burning Sands? thread.
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