Any interest in a new sub-setting?

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What is the best way to get people interested in my Giant and Dragon PC rules

I don’t think many fans want any of the below
1
9%
Do the Ostoria setting for DM’s Guild
6
55%
Do a Forgotten Realms dragon PC book for DM’s Guild
2
18%
Do a Forgotten Realms Giant PC book for DM’s Guild
1
9%
Do both a Forgotten Realms Giant PC book and a Dragon PC book for DM’s Guild
1
9%
Do a generic dragon PC book for Drive Thu
0
No votes
Do a generic Giant PC book for Drive Thu
0
No votes
Do both a generic Giant PC book and a Dragon PC book for Drive Thu
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 11

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Coronoides
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Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Coronoides » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:28 pm

First, some background to the project

How do I get work I’ve already done to people? So I already have a few hundred hours of algebra work analyzing how WOTC makes D&D 5e races and the game’s power curves AND hundreds of player/hours of playtesting that system AND worked up rules for giant and dragon PCs (uses something like 3e’s LA).

The obvious place to put D&D stuff to get to the most fans is the DM’s Guild which also gives you access to a huge free archive of art. However, only FR or generic material is allowed so no Council of Wryms :(

I could do generic vanilla releases of dragon PCs and Giant PCs but there seems to be little enthusiasm for that and generic products can get lost among the multitudes on Drive Thru RPG.

I could do a vaguely FR release I suspect but giants and dragons as PCs alone is not enough, they need an epic setting to play in.

Age of Ostoria
For 4000 years Ostoria, the Empire of Giants, dominated the world. So how about a sub-setting set in the ancient days of Ostoria when the empire of the giants was at its peak and before the war with the dragons? PCs would begin at 11th level. You could play regular humanoid heroes, or giants or dragons. Giants and dragons as races are ‘worth’ a number of class levels so a fog giant starts at 11th with 6 class levels while a cloud giant starts at 11th with one class level. There is lots of material about Ostoria across the editions of D&D that you could draw on.
What do you think? Please vote and make comments.
At the moment I’m just looking at options. Whatever I choose will probably take a year or two to make. However, you here at the Piazza would see draft material just like I’m doing for my Council of Wryms conversion.
Last edited by Coronoides on Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by shesheyan » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:32 am

You should definitely poll the same questions on Enworld and Giants in the Playground. Regardless of results its a great way to market a project without sounding too much like an advertisement.

5E is the way to go. I do think your offering WILL stand out from the other «generic fantasy» offers on DM Guilds. I would do 2 FR based books. One for giants and one for dragons. Not sure which you should do first.

You could set up a Patreon account to help you with some of the expenses (illustrations).

Good luck!

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Sturm » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:53 pm

I would love a setting book on Ostoria, I'd like also a mini-campaign or some expanded ideas for adventures. I think it would be quite original so it has potential.

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Seethyr » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:02 pm

Sturm wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:53 pm
I would love a setting book on Ostoria, I'd like also a mini-campaign or some expanded ideas for adventures. I think it would be quite original so it has potential.
I have to second this. DMSGuild is littered with new class paths and rules. IMHO too few try their hand at new lore, perhaps because making it fit seemlessly into the vast history of the Realms requires so much research. I’m always up for getting new lore. Something like the entries in 3e’s Lost Empires of Faerûn.
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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Coronoides » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:43 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:32 am
You should definitely poll the same questions on Enworld and Giants in the Playground. Regardless of results its a great way to market a project without sounding too much like an advertisement.

5E is the way to go. I do think your offering WILL stand out from the other «generic fantasy» offers on DM Guilds. I would do 2 FR based books. One for giants and one for dragons. Not sure which you should do first.

You could set up a Patreon account to help you with some of the expenses (illustrations).

Good luck!
Don't have a presence on those forums and am unsure about introducing myself like this.

If I went down this route I'd do the dragon book first. This would be a cut down version of my Council of Wryms rules I've already written with some FR lore added. the giant rules are already designed and had some playtesting but mostly exist as excel spreadsheet numbers not writing. I don't really know the FR lore and there is so much of it for the 'modern era'. Getting the lore in would be the hardest part.

Up until my last book I never charged for anything on the grounds that I'm just writing stuff I'm gonna write anyway for my own use and at my own pace. Also I really know what it's like to not be able to afford $4 for a PDF from my unemployed/student days. However for the last book I had to get software to put the bookmarks in, something I would not have done except to please others so I tried to recover my $100AUD (and failed). If I had patrons then I would feel obliged to try to meet some kind of deadline and give folks value, with the stress of my real job (research scientist) that just might push me over the edge.
I might also be tempted to move text I give away for free here to 'exclusives' for patrons. This would reduce feedback and make worse designs not better ones.

Thanks!
Last edited by Coronoides on Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Coronoides » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:48 pm

Sturm wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:53 pm
I would love a setting book on Ostoria, I'd like also a mini-campaign or some expanded ideas for adventures. I think it would be quite original so it has potential.
The other thing is I don't really know much about the Realms but I have read most of the information that is available for Ostoria, I think the idea pushes many of the same epic buttons for me as Council of Wryms. The scarcity of lore on Ostoria makes collating it into one volume an easy way to make something useful and desirable. Add epic scale PCs (giants, dragons, and tier 3 heroes) and you have something that I hope will stand out.
My biggest issue would be my minimal art and layout skills in the digital realm.

The book would definitely be built with an eye for providing actual game play and to that end would contain at least multiple adventure hooks each based around a cool aspect of the lore and a couple of paragraphs long. I am already writing advice for adventures using potent PCs for Council of Wryms that could be helpful here too. I'd love to write adventures but that would depend on enthusiasm for the project (mine and the FR fans).
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Sturm » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:32 am

If you haven't already done it, you should also post this on Candlekeep which is the main FR forum:
http://forum.candlekeep.com

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by willpell » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:44 pm

The idea of giants having a civilization has never sat right with me. Obviously you can't apply the Square Cube Law in D&D, but it seems as though this is one place where you should refrain from openly defying it either. A giant spider or something is one thing, but building a house that's 80 feet tall, with walls 30 feet thick, and furniture built to hold an 800-pound occupant, and a kitchen full of ten-foot-tall spice jars, and a council chamber where hundreds of giants can gather to vote on municipal taxes...no, I really don't feel it.

As to the poll, I obviously voted in favor of dragons, since that's my jam.

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Coronoides » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:12 pm

Sturm wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:32 am
If you haven't already done it, you should also post this on Candlekeep which is the main FR forum:
http://forum.candlekeep.com
Having a quick look they have a dedicated sub-forum for DMs Guild including pitches.
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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Coronoides » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:16 pm

willpell wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:44 pm
The idea of giants having a civilization has never sat right with me. Obviously you can't apply the Square Cube Law in D&D, but it seems as though this is one place where you should refrain from openly defying it either. A giant spider or something is one thing, but building a house that's 80 feet tall, with walls 30 feet thick, and furniture built to hold an 800-pound occupant, and a kitchen full of ten-foot-tall spice jars, and a council chamber where hundreds of giants can gather to vote on municipal taxes...no, I really don't feel it.

As to the poll, I obviously voted in favor of dragons, since that's my jam.
I’m a giant fan of Gulliver’s Travels so I suppose my suspension of disbelief is broken in on that issue.

Generally, I think that there is probably more demand for Dragon PCs than giants. Perhaps 3.X’s use of wrymlings as PCs has gotten people more used to the idea?
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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by willpell » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:07 pm

Coronoides wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:16 pm
Generally, I think that there is probably more demand for Dragon PCs than giants. Perhaps 3.X’s use of wrymlings as PCs has gotten people more used to the idea?
That, and dragons are just cooler.

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by shesheyan » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:15 pm

I've been thinking about this. Changed my vote. Do the Ostoria setting. If you are going to do rules for giants and dragons might as well include the setting.

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by willpell » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:49 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:15 pm
I've been thinking about this. Changed my vote. Do the Ostoria setting. If you are going to do rules for giants and dragons might as well include the setting.
I think he was implying this was an "or" situation. More focus on the civilization of the giants means fewer rules dedicated to making giants playable (fewer alternate class features, extra magic items, and such).

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Coronoides » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:47 am

willpell wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:49 pm
shesheyan wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:15 pm
I've been thinking about this. Changed my vote. Do the Ostoria setting. If you are going to do rules for giants and dragons might as well include the setting.
I think he was implying this was an "or" situation. More focus on the civilization of the giants means fewer rules dedicated to making giants playable (fewer alternate class features, extra magic items, and such).
I actually hadn’t thought in those terms. Mostly, I didn’t want to waste effort doing the Ostoria stuff if people were just going to use the race rules and ignore the fluff. Now it may be that my limited endurance for the project means that doing the setting results in less crunch but that is not the intent. It could also be argued that researching then emulating Ostoria will lead to more new rules, stuff inspired by the setting I would not have thought of otherwise.
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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by shesheyan » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:12 am

Coronoides wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:47 am
I actually hadn’t thought in those terms. Mostly, I didn’t want to waste effort doing the Ostoria stuff if people were just going to use the race rules and ignore the fluff.
You should write the product that inspires you. Do it for you. What people do with it after is their own business. You shouldn't short change yourself on assumptions of what they might do. ;)

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Coronoides » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:22 am

shesheyan wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:12 am
Coronoides wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:47 am
I actually hadn’t thought in those terms. Mostly, I didn’t want to waste effort doing the Ostoria stuff if people were just going to use the race rules and ignore the fluff.
You should write the product that inspires you. Do it for you. What people do with it after is their own business. You shouldn't short change yourself on assumptions of what they might do. ;)
You know what? You're right.
I'll start the Ostoria project and see if it holds my interest long term like the Council of Wryms has. Expect to see stuff with the tag [Ostoria] here at the Piazza soon.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Coronoides » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:06 am

I submitted my own vote. Based on the thoughts above I voted Ostoria.
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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by willpell » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:41 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:12 am
Coronoides wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:47 am
I actually hadn’t thought in those terms. Mostly, I didn’t want to waste effort doing the Ostoria stuff if people were just going to use the race rules and ignore the fluff.
You should write the product that inspires you. Do it for you. What people do with it after is their own business. You shouldn't short change yourself on assumptions of what they might do. ;)
If he just wants to expend his time farting around with something that amuses him, this is true. But if he's hoping to actually market something, he absolutely should find out what the public is interested in, and not waste his energy on things that aren't popular enough to pay off.

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by shesheyan » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:27 pm

Coronoides wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:22 am
shesheyan wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:12 am
Coronoides wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:47 am
I actually hadn’t thought in those terms. Mostly, I didn’t want to waste effort doing the Ostoria stuff if people were just going to use the race rules and ignore the fluff.
You should write the product that inspires you. Do it for you. What people do with it after is their own business. You shouldn't short change yourself on assumptions of what they might do. ;)
You know what? You're right.
I'll start the Ostoria project and see if it holds my interest long term like the Council of Wryms has. Expect to see stuff with the tag [Ostoria] here at the Piazza soon.
Looking forward to your [Ostoria] threads. My best work as a commercial artist was always done when the client gave me «carte blanche». Hoping the same goes for you. As creators we don't need barriers in our head to make commercially viable products.

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by willpell » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:29 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:27 pm
As creators we don't need barriers in our head to make commercially viable products.
Many starving artists once said exactly this. i wish you luck; you'll need it.

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by shesheyan » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:35 pm

willpell wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:29 pm
shesheyan wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:27 pm
As creators we don't need barriers in our head to make commercially viable products.
Many starving artists once said exactly this. i wish you luck; you'll need it.
I had a very successful carrier and I'm now retired... you are now official on my foe list so don't bother replying to my posts with your toxic trolling because I won't be seeing them or reading them.

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by willpell » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:17 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:35 pm
I had a very successful carrier and I'm now retired... you are now official on my foe list so don't bother replying to my posts with your toxic trolling because I won't be seeing them or reading them.
Well, he might not see this, but for the sake of anyone else reading this thread - I wasn't trolling, I was issuing a cautionary warning based on my own bitter experience. Maybe that was "toxic", but if so, it was because I've already been poisoned, and am trying to warn others away.

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Boneguard » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:25 pm

An Ostoria setting eould be better as it can also be used by people like myself who doesn't do 5th Ed. A setting book (whether a building, city, region, or Empire) can be used more fully as we can ignore/substitute the crunch with our favorite edition/system. Race, spells or archetypes aren't as useful to us as it rely more heavily on 5th Ed. mechanic which can't really be ignored or require conversion rather than substitution.
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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Coronoides » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:02 am

willpell wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:29 pm
shesheyan wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:27 pm
As creators we don't need barriers in our head to make commercially viable products.
Many starving artists once said exactly this. i wish you luck; you'll need it.
Many later unemployed scientists too!
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

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Re: Any interest in a new sub-setting?

Post by Coronoides » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:06 am

willpell wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:17 pm
shesheyan wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:35 pm
I had a very successful carrier and I'm now retired... you are now official on my foe list so don't bother replying to my posts with your toxic trolling because I won't be seeing them or reading them.
Well, he might not see this, but for the sake of anyone else reading this thread - I wasn't trolling, I was issuing a cautionary warning based on my own bitter experience. Maybe that was "toxic", but if so, it was because I've already been poisoned, and am trying to warn others away.
An issue with text only communication especially across similar cultures is that tone and intent can be easily misread. It happens. Not anyone’s fault and we are powerless to stop it entirely.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

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