Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

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banesbox
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Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by banesbox »

I was looking thru my Spelljammer art files for a seperate project and came across a map I downloaded a long time ago called "Wild Space". It was in pretty rough shape so I decided to resize it and clean it up a little. Hope all you Spelljammer fans can use it.

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Full size download:
http://banesbox.deviantart.com/art/Wild ... 1473139874

;)

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Big Mac
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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by Big Mac »

banesbox wrote:I was looking thru my Spelljammer art files for a seperate project and came across a map I downloaded a long time ago called "Wild Space". It was in pretty rough shape so I decided to resize it and clean it up a little. Hope all you Spelljammer fans can use it.
Thanks Banesbox! That's awesome!

I've seen the original map. It's tiny. And the first time I saw this, I wondered what was supposed to be going on.

This map is from a little-known Mystara/Spelljammer crossover product and it actually depicts four different moments in time. The PCs are supposed to be on the Hammership and the four boarding ladders (or whatever they are called) represent four encounters the PC's ship has (three with asteroids and one with another ship).

The GM is supposed to cover up all four boarding ladders (and the things they lead to) and then uncover each one, as the PCs arrive at a specific encounter. It's an interesting idea, but after I worked out what it was, I decided it was going to be pretty hard to use (without accidentally revealing one of the wrong encounters).

I did wonder about making four copies of this and painting out the three other boarding ladders/encounter sites, to make this into four maps. But there is so much going on, it would be really hard to do that. :?
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xorial
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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by xorial »

I don't think it was ever released. It was part of the line of products that included CDs that had sound effects & the "read aloud" boxes in the adventures narrated by voice actors. This one was called Wildspace. It was meant to relaunch the Spelljammer line, but was one of many products lost when TSR started going belly-up.
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banesbox
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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by banesbox »

I actually have copies of the original pages of the adventure that went with this map, but they too are pixelated pretty bad. I guess I could go ahead and redo the whole adventure and combine it into a PDF. Least it will be preserved for the ages. It says this adventure is not used with the CD and can be played on its own. I don't know anything about Spelljammer products, but I am willing to work on it.

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by Jaid »

could make for a decent map of a community stuck far into a sargasso. just adding on to their available space any time they come in contact with another thing. you'd need to put some more vegetation (for food and air) onto it, or maybe have them completely reliant on priests to provide food and water (which would probably lead to becoming a theocracy). might make for an interesting short writeup :)

of course, the map still wouldn't be super useful. unless they were all desperately hoping to some day come out on the other side of the sargasso still for some reason (maybe the priest who is providing food and water is exceptionally long lived - an elf perhaps? - and is hoping to be able to just unattach their ships and go their separate ways some day), so that the ships at least look basically untouched.

heck, maybe if i think on this more, we'll wind up with a brief sketch of a rather unusual encounter to have inside of a sargasso :P

banesbox
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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by banesbox »

Here is a sample of restoring this particular adventure.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/bd3oe ... Sample.pdf

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by GMWestermeyer »

Clearly intended as a battle map originally, for figures. :)

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

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xorial wrote:I don't think it was ever released. It was part of the line of products that included CDs that had sound effects & the "read aloud" boxes in the adventures narrated by voice actors. This one was called Wildspace. It was meant to relaunch the Spelljammer line, but was one of many products lost when TSR started going belly-up.
I've seen this product. It does exist. I've held it in my hands. I couldn't afford it at the time, otherwise I would have bought it. I've recently heard that there was a second-edition of this product, that changed the Mystara tie-in to a Forgotten Realms tie-in. Given that the other three adventures were based in Karameikos, I'm not too sure how that would be possible, but I'm going to have to investigate that claim before I buy this.
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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by Big Mac »

Jaid wrote:could make for a decent map of a community stuck far into a sargasso. just adding on to their available space any time they come in contact with another thing. you'd need to put some more vegetation (for food and air) onto it, or maybe have them completely reliant on priests to provide food and water (which would probably lead to becoming a theocracy). might make for an interesting short writeup :)
It isn't supposed to be used that way. You are supposed to:
  • Use the Hammership and Asteroid A - and ignore Asteroid B, Asteroid C and the Dragonship,
  • Use the Hammership and Asteroid B - and ignore Asteroid A, Asteroid C and the Dragonship
  • Use the Hammership and Asteroid C - and ignore Asteroid A, Asteroid B and the Dragonship or
  • Use the Hammership and the Dragonship - and ignore Asteroid A, Asteroid B and Asteroid C.
The three asteroids and the Dragonship are supposed to all be in different places.

However, rebooting this and using it as a couple of spelljammer ships docked onto a small cluster of asteroids might allow the map to be used as is (instead of the map requiring the GM to stick bits of paper over all four docking targets, so that they can be revealed one at a time).

One thing I've not yet figured out about Spelljammer is how large a celestial body you need to generate enough air for it to be able to support a person. If we had a ship with 20 crewmen on it, and it was docked to five asteroids that each created 5 man/days of air per day, that ship could top up on air, while the crew carried out basic repairs and could leave with a fully topped up atmosphere.

This sort of thing (the sort of arrangement you suggested) could also be a good strategy for pirates. They could find a small asteroid cluster on a trade route, pull in a few small asteroids that keep their air topped up, and then station lookouts to look for ships they can raid. :twisted:

Maybe there is some of this going on in the Grinder in Greyspace. :)
Jaid wrote:of course, the map still wouldn't be super useful. unless they were all desperately hoping to some day come out on the other side of the sargasso still for some reason (maybe the priest who is providing food and water is exceptionally long lived - an elf perhaps? - and is hoping to be able to just unattach their ships and go their separate ways some day), so that the ships at least look basically untouched.
If you had a ship (or two ships) trapped in a sargasso, the ability to plant a few crops on asteroids and grow your own food, might actually be a long term survival plan.

And if a ship was in among a field of small asteroids inside a sargasso, throwing out ropes (maybe tied to balista bolts) might allow the crew to pull the ship along through wildspace. In theory, a ship inside The Grinder could be pulled all the way around it via rope use.
Jaid wrote:heck, maybe if i think on this more, we'll wind up with a brief sketch of a rather unusual encounter to have inside of a sargasso :P
I think that someone could design an entire spacefaring colony on a cluster of astroids inside a sargasso. The gravity plane would allow ships to get away from the asteroids and the people inside the sargasso could even build a gigantic trebuchet that tosses ships out of the edge of the sargasso. :)
GMWestermeyer wrote:Clearly intended as a battle map originally, for figures. :)
Yep, apart from the original map is about 4 inches wide. If it was blown up to 1 inch square scale it would work as a battlemap.
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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by Jaid »

i understand it wasn't meant as an actual representation of the spatial relationship of those objects. i'm just saying you could repurpose it, as i described above :P

oh, and asteroids don't produce air. plants do. as i recall, it's a relatively low amount required; something like a single 5x5 square of green plants (i would consider that as meaning it needs to be at least equivalent to the amount of plant life you'd expect in a garden on earth, not just a couple small flowers in a planter or hanging from the ceiling in pots... but i would also allow enough room for a path to get through the area) provides 1 man-day of air per day. probably to keep the math simple, i suspect... i mean, i can't imagine anyone *really* wanted to get into detailed calculations of the amount of surface area relative to plant type and size, accounting for the density of leaves (a bush will of course have a lot of leaves in a small area, while a vine would not), how much sunlight is available per day, etc... how many plants you can grow within a certain region... so ultimately they just picked an arbitrary number that sounded good and used that as their rule.

the rule is probably found in the WCC... most rules do seem to be there. the amount may not be a single 5x5 square, but there is definitely a value expressed in those terms.

edit: ok, wasn't as hard to track down as i thought. complete spacefarer's handbook, page 69-70. a 5x5 section of plants on deck space (needs sun, can't grow in the hold) will keep 5 tons worth of air envelope fresh (so it's actually 5 man-days of air per day). double that will clean air by one category per month (which would mean that the extra 5x5 spaces are working 4 times as fast, with the overall plants working at 2.5 times as fast). half that will extend the air freshness by 50% (so 4 months of fresh air becomes 6, which agrees with the first figure of 5 man-days of air per day per 5x5 square).

because it is expressed in ship tonnage rather than crew, you get some weirdness... a 40 ton ship with 8 squares of green plants can provide air for 40 people indefinitely, but with only 4 squares of green plants can provide air for 20 people for 12 months fresh and another 12 foul. perhaps more notably, a 40 ton ship with 8 squares of green plants can provide fresh air for hundreds or thousands of people indefinitely (though of course, if you actually cram thousands of people into a 40 ton ship i suspect some will probably die from being crushed by the people you had to pile on top of them, and more will probably die from lack of food, water, and proper sanitation).

so, i'd recommend changing the rule from being based on ship tonnage, to being based on actual crew on board. it has less weird effects on the universe. (i'd also recommend having green plants clean foul or deadly air at their usual rate rather than quadruple their usual rate, but maybe that actually just has something to do with the plants thriving in such conditions... not being a fantasy space botanist (yet), i can't really give a firm answer on that).

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by Morfie »

Wait, what?

Spelljammer and Mystara together?! Where do I find more info on this vapourware? I've never heard of this before.

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by Morfie »

Can't find any connections, but:

Found this youtube video.. it looks fairly bad even for the mid-90's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHGz5r-b1do

Looks like Wild Space was going to be a boardgame with VHS support. http://cyclopeatron.blogspot.co.nz/2011 ... ailer.html

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by Morfie »

And that Wild Space may even be something different..

I found something else which directly relates to the map and sample page that banesbox had (and now I'm answering my own questions..) It appears to be from First Quest, Intro to AD&D. This was an actual released product in 1994 with the code TSR 1105. The adventures in here include Tomb of Demara, The Ghost of Harrow Hill, Across Wildspace!, and under Mount Dread.
These are explicitly set in an un-named town in Karameikos, Mystara. The Across Wildspace! adventure provides the link between Mystara and the Spelljammer settings. Spelljammer is not mentioned, but it contains Wildspace, Hammerships and Neogi, and references the Rock of Bral, so is obviously Spelljammer.

However, this set was then rebranded into Intro to AD&D TSR 1134 and released in 1995, after they killed off most of the settings.
This removed the Across Wildspace! adventure and changed the other adventures to be explicitly set in the Forgotten Realms - the town of Freedale in Shadowdale. Thus removing any Spelljammer or Mystara references.

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by Havard »

Morfie wrote:And that Wild Space may even be something different..

I found something else which directly relates to the map and sample page that banesbox had (and now I'm answering my own questions..) It appears to be from First Quest, Intro to AD&D. This was an actual released product in 1994 with the code TSR 1105. The adventures in here include Tomb of Demara, The Ghost of Harrow Hill, Across Wildspace!, and under Mount Dread.
These are explicitly set in an un-named town in Karameikos, Mystara. The Across Wildspace! adventure provides the link between Mystara and the Spelljammer settings. Spelljammer is not mentioned, but it contains Wildspace, Hammerships and Neogi, and references the Rock of Bral, so is obviously Spelljammer.

Yes, there is a thread about the First Quest Boxed Set here. As you say, all the adventures start out in Karameikos (Mystara) including the one with Spelljamming Ships.
However, this set was then rebranded into Intro to AD&D TSR 1134 and released in 1995, after they killed off most of the settings.
This removed the Across Wildspace! adventure and changed the other adventures to be explicitly set in the Forgotten Realms - the town of Freedale in Shadowdale. Thus removing any Spelljammer or Mystara references.
Wow, I did not realize that the TSR 1134 intro set rehashed so much of the First Quest Boxed Set.

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by Robin »

I have this adventure in PDf, given to me on one of my many burthdays.
I was not aware it begins on Mystara, karameikos for one place.
Nice...that gift suddenly became much nicer.
As thus I have to relocate it in my immense D&D archive to the Mytara files. thanx


It is complete, so if any needs some moee info, I maybe can rely some.
There is a map of a system under Mount Dread for example, a village (unnamed on the isometric map), and some other maps depicted in Karameikos, and a poster (in 4 parts)
My Deviantart page; http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/ For Mystara hexmaps and Fantasy art
(to see all fantasy art; log inn and declare you are an adult...frigging exposure rules)

My personal Mystara Blog;http://breathofmystara.blogspot.nl/ with lots of information, soon active again.

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by thorr-kan »

GMWestermeyer wrote:Clearly intended as a battle map originally, for figures. :)
It does look like an amazing battle map for DnD Miniatures, doesn't it?

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by thorr-kan »

GMWestermeyer wrote:Clearly intended as a battle map originally, for figures. :)
It does look like an amazing battle map for DnD Miniatures, doesn't it?

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by GMWestermeyer »

thorr-kan wrote:
GMWestermeyer wrote:Clearly intended as a battle map originally, for figures. :)
It does look like an amazing battle map for DnD Miniatures, doesn't it?
In the original, it was such a map. It was on a poster along with maps for the other adventures in the set.

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Re: Unknown Spelljammer map cleaned

Post by Big Mac »

GMWestermeyer wrote:
thorr-kan wrote:
GMWestermeyer wrote:Clearly intended as a battle map originally, for figures. :)
It does look like an amazing battle map for DnD Miniatures, doesn't it?
In the original, it was such a map. It was on a poster along with maps for the other adventures in the set.
I don't think I saw a big version of the map in the box I nearly bought.

I don't know if I was looking at a reprint or if the maps had been lifted out of the box I almost bought. :?

I think I am going to need to be really really careful about buying one of these.
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