Page 1 of 1

[Krynnspace][Let's Raid] Dragonlance Campaign Setting

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:20 pm
by Big Mac
I just posted a topic called [Let's Raid] Dragonlance Campaign Setting in the Taladas forum at The Piazza. Here is the opening bit of the first post:
Big Mac wrote:I want to play 3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons and MWP never got around to making a Taladas Campaign Setting book, so I'd like to review the books they did and talk about what parts of those books would work in a Taladas campaign...and what parts would need to be dropped or given a new Taladas background.

I thought I would start off with the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Potentially, this topic could give us enough ideas for someone to make a Taladas Campaign Setting conversion document, but I'm really just doing this to see what is there to raid at the moment.
I just thought that I might as well raid the book for Krynnspace ideas, at the same time that I raid it for Taladas ideas. :twisted:

Here is an abbreviated version of the contents:
  • Foreword
  • Introduction
  • Chapter 1: Races
  • Chapter 2: Classes and Feats
  • Chapter 3: Magic of Krynn
  • Chapter 4: Deities
  • Chapter 5: Geography
  • Chapter 6: The Dragonlance Campaign
  • Chapter 7: Creatures of Ansalon
  • Chapter 8: Dragons of Krynn
  • Chapter 9: Other Eras of Play
  • Adventure: They Sylvan Key
  • Adventure: The Ghost Blade
I'll go through each chapter, until I stop getting any more replies about it, and then move on. First thing is the Foreword, which I know from my existing topic is an easy one.

Re: [Krynnspace][Let's Raid] DCS - Foreword

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:21 pm
by Big Mac
The foreword is an easy one. It's a great summary of the creation of Dragonlance, by Tracy Hickman. But it says nothing about Dragonlance's celestial bodies. So I think this has nothing to add to a potential "Krynnspace Campaign Setting" conversion document.

Re: [Krynnspace][Let's Raid] DCS - Introduction

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:01 am
by Big Mac
The Introduction is three pages long.

Here is what the Contents says is in there:
Dragonlance Campaign Setting contents wrote:
  • Introduction 5
    • Ages of Krynn 5
    • World of Krynn 6
      • Ansalon 6
      • Taladas 6
      • Dragon Isles 6
      • Other Lands 6
    • People of Krynn 6
      • Civilised Races 6
      • Things of the Wild 7
    • The Campaign 7
      • Epic Fantasy 7
      • Conflict of Good and Evil 7
      • The Influence of Krynn's Past 7
    • Where to Begin 7
The Introduction gives us The Canticle of the Dragon and a it of blurb about Krynn and Ansalon. There are themes here that should also apply to the other worlds of Krynnspace, but most of this is stuff that does not relate to anywhere outside of Ansalon. (I wonder if each world in Krynnspace needs it's own poem. :? )

The Ages of Krynn are great, but the legends about these ages would be different on the different worlds of Krynnspace. (I wonder if the people of the various worlds even use the same ages, or if they describe the past differently. I can see how spelljamming travel would standardise some knowledge, but there should still be some localised legends)

The World of Krynn section needs to be re-written from the point of view of each planet being the "home" area and Krynn being an "other place".

The People of Krynn section is good. It tells you the sort of themes that a Krynnspace campaign should also have. There might be different "Civilised Races" and "Things of the Wild" but those two broad categories should apply to each world.

The Campaign is something I think is a vital part of Dragonlance. Krynnspace needs to be it's own thing, but it should also focus on Epic Fantasy, Conflict of Good and Evil and the Influence of Krynn's past. Things work differently out on the worlds of Krynnspace, but the gods are still there, with good and evil battling and things like The Cataclysm effect spacefaring travel. (Essentially, I am of the opinion that Krynnspace should be "The Dragonlance Crystal Sphere"...or..."Dragonlance innnn space".)

Where to Begin is good generic advice. Someone playing a 3e Krynnspace campaign probably needs to look at the same books.

Re: [Krynnspace][Let's Raid] Dragonlance Campaign Setting

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:40 am
by Jaid
actually, and this may seem a bit weird, i would argue that dragonlance isn't quite as much about good vs evil as it is about the freedom of mortals to choose between those things... one of the main laws seems to be that the forces of good and evil must be balanced. you never see good having the goal of vanquishing evil entirely; huma didn't kill takhisis or drive her temples into non-existence under the guidance of paladine. he defeated the forces that were threatening to conquer the world and then... sorta... vanished. along with the primary weapon used to battle the evil forces, which had previously been present in great numbers. when the king-priest of istar became too powerful, the gods intervened and the forces of good were destroyed also for being so presumptuous. when the gods leave or return, it's always together, and when the decision is made to remove takhisis, it is required that paladine also be removed. when all the other gods basically leave for 300 years, pretty much the only one with a representative on the planet (unless you count the orders of high sorcery, which are, once again, balanced) is a neutral god (and i believe i've heard some theories that astinus actually *is* a manifestation of gilean in some form or another). even when you see the forces of evil largely driven back, it coincides with the knights of solamnia losing a lot of influence and power in spite of their continued worship of paladine (who probably allowed it because evil didn't have any servants and again, balance must be maintained), and eventually takhisis even goes so far as to form a literal knighthood in opposition to the knights of solamnia. the world itself is not created by the gods of good or evil, that credit goes to reorx, a neutral god.

so yeah, actually, while the heroes of the setting are primarily the followers of the gods of good... the setting itself is very neutral, in my opinion. the fight is never to completely destroy the forces of evil and remove them... it is a fight where one side seeks to restore balance and allow mortals the freedom to choose, while the other side seeks to force all to serve one or the other. it is about good and evil, but only in the sense that they are both always going to be there and are necessary, and an imbalance of them is generally what causes every single major problem the world has ever seen.

Re: [Krynnspace][Let's Raid] Dragonlance Campaign Setting

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:28 pm
by Big Mac
Jaid wrote:actually, and this may seem a bit weird, i would argue that dragonlance isn't quite as much about good vs evil as it is about the freedom of mortals to choose between those things... one of the main laws seems to be that the forces of good and evil must be balanced. you never see good having the goal of vanquishing evil entirely; huma didn't kill takhisis or drive her temples into non-existence under the guidance of paladine. he defeated the forces that were threatening to conquer the world and then... sorta... vanished. along with the primary weapon used to battle the evil forces, which had previously been present in great numbers. when the king-priest of istar became too powerful, the gods intervened and the forces of good were destroyed also for being so presumptuous. when the gods leave or return, it's always together, and when the decision is made to remove takhisis, it is required that paladine also be removed. when all the other gods basically leave for 300 years, pretty much the only one with a representative on the planet (unless you count the orders of high sorcery, which are, once again, balanced) is a neutral god (and i believe i've heard some theories that astinus actually *is* a manifestation of gilean in some form or another). even when you see the forces of evil largely driven back, it coincides with the knights of solamnia losing a lot of influence and power in spite of their continued worship of paladine (who probably allowed it because evil didn't have any servants and again, balance must be maintained), and eventually takhisis even goes so far as to form a literal knighthood in opposition to the knights of solamnia. the world itself is not created by the gods of good or evil, that credit goes to reorx, a neutral god.
Thanks for saying that. I think you are onto something there.

I've long had nagging thoughts about Dragonlace. Not quite on the same lines as you. But I see the RPG books showing me a "perfect" description of the Knights of Solamnia, the Wizards of High Sorcery and the Holy Orders of the Stars - and the novels showing me knights who have lost a lot of their faith, wizards who have lost most of the Towers of High Sorcery and an entire religion that vanished on the day before the Cataclysm...and which is only just coming back.

I think that if we look at what Jean Rabe created for us in SJR7 Krynnspace and if we look at the Krynnspace elements in War Captain's Companion we also have idealised socieities, similar to what DLCS gives us.

I think that, if we look at the sort of things you spoke about, we need to have figures like Huma (not clones of Huma) on other worlds. We probably need to have a Kingpriest-like figure (too-good or too-bad) who is connected to the Krynnspace planet that blew up. (Or maybe we could subvert that, by creating a Lord Soth-like character who succeeds at "stopping" the thing that the gods warn about, but who "stops" it by destroying the world.)

The idea that Takhisis lusts after Krynn...or even just Ansalon...seems flawed to me. I believe that there should be plots on every other celestial body...from time to time, where Takisis (or maybe another of the evil deities) is up to something and Paladine (or maybe another good deity who balances out a specific evil deity) is up against them. In fact, it wouldn't be too bad to push Takhisis and Paladine to the back seat and make another pair of gods "more important" in the story of another of the worlds of Krynnspace. Each of the worlds of Krynnspace is named after a neutral deity (DLCS actually makes this fit better than SJR7*) so perhaps Krynnspace needs to have trios of deities that "showcase" each celestial body.

* = Nehzmyth being the spacefarer name for Shinare is the hand-wave to get the two books to work together.

Reorx is interesting, as he is a major focus of the planet Reorx. There is (supposedly) a global kingdom of dwarves and gnomes there. Everything is apparently "perfect", but the dwarves don't get on well with the spacefaring elves, the surface of the planet is dominated by dragons (who eat the surface groundlings) and the Undereorx is being invaded by mind-flayers. (It seems to me that "perfection" is about to implode and that the dwarves have nobody to help them, because they have chased away the elves and allowed the other races to "devolve" into "things of the wild" who are forced to hide from dragons.)
Jaid wrote:so yeah, actually, while the heroes of the setting are primarily the followers of the gods of good... the setting itself is very neutral, in my opinion. the fight is never to completely destroy the forces of evil and remove them... it is a fight where one side seeks to restore balance and allow mortals the freedom to choose, while the other side seeks to force all to serve one or the other. it is about good and evil, but only in the sense that they are both always going to be there and are necessary, and an imbalance of them is generally what causes every single major problem the world has ever seen.
You are right there. The Cataclysm is a clear indication that The Kingpriest and the desire to "control evil" is "bad" in itself.

I remember someone once saying something about fantasy commoners treating things like attacks by races like goblins as an ''occupational hazard". I know that the people of Ansalon are supposed to have turned against the Knights of Solamnia, after The Cataclysm. So maybe the "occupational hazard" logic doesn't apply to Dragonlance. (Or maybe the Knights of Solamnia were viewed as traitors for siding with The Kingpriest and bringing in the laws of extreme good that quickly turned to xenophobia and a quest to exterminate evil.)

There certainly is more to Dragonlance than meets the eye. And I think that Krynnspace has enough different celestial bodies that different aspects of Dragonlance can be highlighted in self-contained environments. :mrgreen:

Re: [Krynnspace][Let's Raid] Dragonlance Campaign Setting

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:01 pm
by Lord Torath
Sort of on-topic: Does anyone know why they made Krynnspace so much bigger in the Krynnspace supplement? In the first boxed set, The farthest planet from the sun was Nehzmyth, at 900 million miles from the sun, implying that the crystal sphere had a radius of 1.8 billion miles. In SJR7 Krynnspace, they added the Stellar Islands, orbiting at 2 billion miles, which pushes the sphere wall out to 4 billion. Was this done just to make Krynnspace less friendly to spelljammers? (Incidentally, the Stellar Islands are listed as size A, but are 100-400 miles across, putting them firmly in size C :facepalm: ).

Also, I remember reading somewhere that the Krynnspace crystal sphere was like 9 million mile thick, and its portals had a habit of closing on ships, with a chance of them splitting in half. But now I can't find it. Am I mis-remembering, or am I just having trouble locating the passage? :?