Blackmoorspace Week

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Blackmoorspace Week

Postby Big Mac » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:10 pm

Havard said, a couple of days back, that it is Blackmoor Week.

But there was that time when he wrote about this mock Blackmoorspace cover (which he also wrote about here).

I just did a search for Blackmoorspace on The Piazza and the only other topic to show up was a Blackmoorspace topic started by Yellowdingo, where he mentioned some space plotlines from DA3 City of the Gods.

But is that it for Blackmorespace canon? Or are there other elements that are mentioned in the 1970s Blackmoor products, the 3e products, the MMRPG stuff or that 4e book?
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Re: Blackmoorspace Week

Postby Havard » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:38 pm

Awesome topic! :)

Canon is such a confusing word.

Why did space ships and aliens start appearing in Dave Arneson's Campaign in the first place? This was because the campaign crossed over with John Snider's Star Empires Campaign. John was another member of Dave's group and when John started a sci fi campaign, Dave placed Blackmoor on the star map and this had consequences for both campaigns.

So as a basis for developing Blackmoor's Solar System, I would use:

1) Frank Mentzer's Immortal Rules: These detail the solar system of the D&D Game World. Mainly it gives you the number of planets, stellar bodies and their sizes, satelites etc.

2) John Snider's Star Probe/Star Empires: These games give you the races and empire found in the galaxy. Obviously this game is not compatible with Spelljammer, but what I would do is rule that some of these races have settled in Blackmoor's solar system and basically gloss over where exactly they came from. They could come from another reality, which is probably the way you would want to go anyway, just because of DA3.

3) DA3 City of the Gods: Again, the citizens of the City of the Gods probably do not come from anywhere near Blackmoor's solar system. They may have stopped by some of the planets on their way to Blackmoor. Most likely they picked up the Sandfolk on Blackmoor's "Mars". The Id Monster might also have arrived in Blackmoor via the City of the Gods, so it could be from one of the planets.

That's all I can think of right now, but I am rather sleepy so I may post more tomorrow.

-Havard

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Re: Blackmoorspace Week

Postby Big Mac » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:19 am

Havard wrote:Awesome topic! :)

Canon is such a confusing word.

Why did space ships and aliens start appearing in Dave Arneson's Campaign in the first place? This was because the campaign crossed over with John Snider's Star Empires Campaign. John was another member of Dave's group and when John started a sci fi campaign, Dave placed Blackmoor on the star map and this had consequences for both campaigns.


I've tried looking up this Star Empires Campaign, but I've not had any success. Is it a homebrew thing that John Snider created himself?

I suppose the fact that GMs who played together, ruled that PCs could all move around, kind of makes Star Empires, Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Mystara, Aquaria and what turned into Black Moon Chronicles into a single setting (from that sort of point of view). I can see why someone made that Mystoerth thing.

Havard wrote:So as a basis for developing Blackmoor's Solar System, I would use:

1) Frank Mentzer's Immortal Rules: These detail the solar system of the D&D Game World. Mainly it gives you the number of planets, stellar bodies and their sizes, satelites etc.


Jeff Grubb made the Spelljammer stats for the real world in the AD&D Adventures in Space boxed set. I've heard that matches up with what Frank Mentzer created.

Havard wrote:2) John Snider's Star Probe/Star Empires: These games give you the races and empire found in the galaxy. Obviously this game is not compatible with Spelljammer, but what I would do is rule that some of these races have settled in Blackmoor's solar system and basically gloss over where exactly they came from. They could come from another reality, which is probably the way you would want to go anyway, just because of DA3.


I don't know if any of the Star Empires references made it into the 3e Blackmoor product line, but if they did then I would say that the Spelljammer interpretation would simply be to make the other stars into different crystal spheres.

You don't actually need to say that races come from another reality (that's Planescape's territory). You could - if you wanted to do a Planejammer thing - but it's not really necessary. And the idea that other races come from different crystal spheres would allow for a Blackmoorspace campaign where the PCs can decide they want to travel to those crystal spheres.

But then again, I don't know DA3.

Havard wrote:3) DA3 City of the Gods: Again, the citizens of the City of the Gods probably do not come from anywhere near Blackmoor's solar system. They may have stopped by some of the planets on their way to Blackmoor. Most likely they picked up the Sandfolk on Blackmoor's "Mars". The Id Monster might also have arrived in Blackmoor via the City of the Gods, so it could be from one of the planets.


I don't have this, and also don't have a 3e version, if one exists. So I'm not sure exactly what the impact is here.

If City of the Gods is supposed to be somewhere where powerful races live (or once lived) that sounds like it could fit in with things like SJ's Juna race.

Havard wrote:That's all I can think of right now, but I am rather sleepy so I may post more tomorrow.


I'll look forward to it.

Anything about Blackmoor's stars or constellations could also be useful.
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Re: Blackmoorspace Week

Postby ripvanwormer » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:22 am

Dave Arneson's Blackmoor, page 155:

The druids of the North turn their prayers to Elgath (el-gath) the Archer to aid in the hunt. Archers pray to his constellation on the night before a battle.


Page 159:

Pacuun is also known as the Walking God, and the constellation of the same name reflects him. All priests and adventurers who call Pacuun their patron watch the night skies, since his constellation moves in the heavens as Pacuun walks the mortal realm. During his holy day, the summer solstice, the constellation glows with extra brilliance around the area of his hands in a long, sword like line of stars. This line of stars is called “Pacuun’s Sunsword."


Pages 159-160:

Bards speak often of a Phellia (fel-e-uh), the Weaver and Queen of Ceremonies. She is the mistress of arcane magic and of lovers. She watches over official ceremonies, particularly weddings and births. Her priests and priestesses believe that all beauty in the world, including that of poetry, magic, music, and rhymes, stems from her immortal blessing. The constellation of the Weaver first appears in the summer sky at the time of the summer solstice, her holy day.


Page 160:

Few constellations in the sky shine as brightly as the Fencer during the winter solstice. Worshippers of Sacwhynne (sak-win-ne) Mooncloth call those stars their own.


Page 160:

In the city of Blackmoor, farmers and druids turn their attention to Sollus (sol-lus), whose constellation is the Harvester.


Page 165:

Mieroc is a new god. Charis, the Gnome Father, granted him immortality after he made a flying machine that could reach the sun.


Big Mac wrote:Jeff Grubb made the Spelljammer stats for the real world in the AD&D Adventures in Space boxed set. I've heard that matches up with what Frank Mentzer created.


Not quite. Mercury, Pluto, and the asteroid belt don't exist, and there are two planets that don't exist in Earth's solar system: Damocles and Charon (not to be confused with Pluto's moon Charon). But it's close. Of course, if you have Mystaraspace and Blackmoorspace as separate systems in your campaign, they probably wouldn't be anything alike, and you probably shouldn't use the Immortal's Set as a basis for Blackmoor's solar system. Or maybe you could use it as a basis; as long as you made them different enough, players might not notice.

If Blackmoor is the same as Mystara in your campaign (as it is in the DA series and the Mystara line), then there is a lot of information on Mystaran constellations in the adventure CM7 The Tree of Life.

Blackmoor could also be set on Oerth (or something like Oerth). Because Judge's Guild published The First Fantasy Campaign and because both the Wilderlands and Blackmoor have a Valley of the Ancients, many assume that Blackmoor is part of the same world as the Wilderlands.

In the other thread, I renamed the planets from the Immortal's Set with the names of Blackmoor deities to create a Blackmoorspace thusly (though I revised it here):

ripvanwormer wrote:The Sun. The system's primary, also perhaps known as Sollus.
Phellia. 67 million miles from the primary.
Terra. 93 million miles from the primary. Blackmoor is a nation on this world.
Henrin, the red planet. 141 million miles from the primary. Known as Zugzul to the Afridhi.
Hersh. 257 million miles from the primary.
Odir, a gas giant. 484 million miles from the primary.
Temrin, more commonly known as Thanatos in modern times. 887 million miles from the primary.
Hak. 1,783 million miles from the primary.
Mwajin, 3,230 million miles from the primary.
Hella, 7,105 million miles from the primary.


Big Mac wrote:If City of the Gods is supposed to be somewhere where powerful races live (or once lived) that sounds like it could fit in with things like SJ's Juna race.


The creators of the City of the Gods (which is a crashed spaceship) were more or less human, though with greenish skin (a few named NPCs belong to that race, including Saint Stephen and Benekander). They're aliens, but they're definitely not the Juna. We don't really know anything about the Federation they came from, though, so perhaps that had something to do with the Juna. Perhaps they founded it or were members of it at some point.

Some fans believe that Saint Stephen's people (the 3rd edition version of City of the Gods calls them the Travelers) are related to the people of Emerond, who definitely have green skin and originated on another world. There's a fan-created history here connecting the two. Here's a speculative article about the various Mystaran alien races, including the Travelers and Emerondians.

Big Mac wrote:I've tried looking up this Star Empires Campaign, but I've not had any success. Is it a homebrew thing that John Snider created himself?


There's a thread on them here with descriptions of the relevant alien species.
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Re: Blackmoorspace Week

Postby Havard » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:12 pm

Wow, excellent compilation of info Rip! :)

I am totally using your version of the solar system.

I might throw in some of the asteroids from the First Quest boxed set too, plus some other concepts from Mystaraspace that might have been around at the time: Myoshima Rakasta, Emerondians, Pyrithians, etc.

-Havard

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Re: Blackmoorspace Week

Postby Sturm » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:57 am

Interesting, I'll have to compare this to other version of Mystaraspace to see how they could fit together when we will do the Mystaraspace Threshold issue!
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Re: Blackmoorspace Week

Postby ripvanwormer » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:46 am

The constellations in CM7 are the Griffon, the Eagle, the Manticore, the Warrior, the Chimera, the Centaur, Justice, the Lizard, the House, the Nymph, the Hydra, the Narwhal.

The constellations in Dave Arneson's Blackmoor are the Archer, the Walking God, the Weaver, the Fencer, and the Harvester. The Weaver is associated with summer, so maybe it's the same as the Griffon. The Walking God is associated with summer too, so it's probably the Warrior. The Archer might be the same as the Manticore, since manticores fire spikes at people. The Fencer, associated with the winter solstice, is probably the same as the Narwhal, known for its horn. I'm guessing the Harvester is the Eagle, at the beginning of autumn.
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