Thoughts on Wildspace economics

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Jaid
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Re: Thoughts on Wildspace economics

Post by Jaid » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:01 pm

Dalillama wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:21 am
Jaid wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:12 pm
adventurers are broadly speaking people crazy enough to decide that you know what, risking their lives constantly while generally fighting enemies that outnumber and/or outpower them by a significant margin in order to maybe get filthy stinking rich (but more likely to die horribly) sounds like a pretty great idea... so i don't know that i would expect them to be terribly smart about how they invest their money when they retire :P

if they were the kind to think ahead that much, they probably wouldn't have decided to be adventurers ;)
Right, but this isn't about adventurers, it's about the backdrop they buckle their swashes against. You're sailing into the unknown in search of fortune, great, but where are you leaving from? Whose frontiers are you going beyond? etc.
when someone asks about the economics of what do adventurers in wildspace do with their money when they retire, then in fact this thread *is* about adventurers at that point (or at least, a specific subset of them).

seeing as how this thread is about the economics of wildspace, *anything* that falls under that umbrella is applicable. if you wish to have a discussion that explicitly excludes the economics of retired adventurers in wildspace, then make a thread that excludes the things you don't want as a topic. you seem to have this problem where you insert a pile of words after the fact and insist that it is everyone else's fault for not seeing them when those words were never there in the first place. if you're going to insist on doing that over and over, then i can just put you on ignore so that there will be no risk of me having a discussion you don't want, but it comes with the territory that i won't be having discussions with you *at all* because i'm no more interested in putting up with that crap than the last person you pulled it on was. let me know which you prefer; i can deal with it either way, but to be clear: i'm going to treat further instances of changing the subject after the fact and insisting that it was always the case as a request to put you on ignore so that we don't have this conversation again.

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Big Mac
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Re: Thoughts on Wildspace economics

Post by Big Mac » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:46 pm

MODERATOR NOTE (by Big Mac): We have already had one (unnecessary argument) in this topic. Can we please not have any more fighting.
Jaid wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:01 pm
Dalillama wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:21 am
Jaid wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:12 pm
adventurers are broadly speaking people crazy enough to decide that you know what, risking their lives constantly while generally fighting enemies that outnumber and/or outpower them by a significant margin in order to maybe get filthy stinking rich (but more likely to die horribly) sounds like a pretty great idea... so i don't know that i would expect them to be terribly smart about how they invest their money when they retire :P

if they were the kind to think ahead that much, they probably wouldn't have decided to be adventurers ;)
Right, but this isn't about adventurers, it's about the backdrop they buckle their swashes against. You're sailing into the unknown in search of fortune, great, but where are you leaving from? Whose frontiers are you going beyond? etc.
when someone asks about the economics of what do adventurers in wildspace do with their money when they retire, then in fact this thread *is* about adventurers at that point (or at least, a specific subset of them).
Dalillama did not ask about the "economics of what do adventurers in wildspace do with their money when they retire". She suggested that everyone on the Rock of Bral (including beggers) would have a lot more money on them than groundlings.

I don't actually agree with Dalillama's opening assumptions. There is clearly no way a beggar on The Rock of Bral would have more money than a Lord of Waterdeep, but she didn't actually start a topic about retiring adventures and move the goal-posts later.

The concept of adventurers retiring was introduced in a post that you made. I do think that it is a valid theme to introduce. After all, if there are allegedly super-rich beggers on the Rock of Bral, someone would need to be throwing money at them. And a specific number of the people running trades on the Rock of Bral would need to be retired adventurers, just like a specific number of people living in groundling cities are retired adventurers.
Jaid wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:01 pm
seeing as how this thread is about the economics of wildspace, *anything* that falls under that umbrella is applicable. if you wish to have a discussion that explicitly excludes the economics of retired adventurers in wildspace, then make a thread that excludes the things you don't want as a topic. you seem to have this problem where you insert a pile of words after the fact and insist that it is everyone else's fault for not seeing them when those words were never there in the first place. if you're going to insist on doing that over and over, then i can just put you on ignore so that there will be no risk of me having a discussion you don't want, but it comes with the territory that i won't be having discussions with you *at all* because i'm no more interested in putting up with that crap than the last person you pulled it on was. let me know which you prefer; i can deal with it either way, but to be clear: i'm going to treat further instances of changing the subject after the fact and insisting that it was always the case as a request to put you on ignore so that we don't have this conversation again.
I don't actually agree with some of Dalillama's base assumptions myself, but please can we have a friendly debate about anything we disagree with.

As for excluding the economics of retired adventurers, I don't see why that would be necessary. It might be a slight side-trek, but it's still part of the main subject. And if we are actually going to attempt to run numbers on Bral's economy (something that might not actually be possible) those might be numbers that are essential.
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Dalillama
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Re: Thoughts on Wildspace economics

Post by Dalillama » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:10 am

Big Mac wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:46 pm

I don't actually agree with Dalillama's opening assumptions. There is clearly no way a beggar on The Rock of Bral would have more money than a Lord of Waterdeep, but she didn't actually start a topic about retiring adventures and move the goal-posts later.
That's an exaggeration, true. But I was trying to describe something like the situation today, where $1 US goes a lot further in a Somali farm village than it does in NYC. A place where tens of spelljamming ships dock daily is going to have a lot of high-value commerce going on, and hence a lot of money floating around, which means inflation. Assuming gold and silver coinage is of roughly standard weight throughout Known Space (not actually an unreasonable assumption, most historical coins are similar in size, because it's a convenient one to carry about), there's going to be a significant inflationary effect on the Rock's economy. Probably not as badly as when it was just a pirate nest though; the prices of hard-to-steal things in places like Tortuga were unbelievably high.



As for excluding the economics of retired adventurers, I don't see why that would be necessary. It might be a slight side-trek, but it's still part of the main subject.

Because only a small fraction of the population are adventurers, and they don't operate enough ships to base an economy on. The vast majority of ships are run by non-adventurers. Also, this is meant to be a discussion of the backdrop against which the adventures take place: What merchants might be hiring people to guard/steal things, where are pirates from, where are adventurers from*, where are all these ships coming and going to and from, etc.

And if we are actually going to attempt to run numbers on Bral's economy (something that might not actually be possible) those might be numbers that are essential.
It's quite impossible using only canon, because canon doesn't provide any sources of shipping.


*the original box set assumes the answer is 'from Krynn, Oerth, or Toril', but I want to run a Spelljammer campaign, not a groundling campaign that takes flight.

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