[HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by night_druid » Mon May 03, 2010 10:39 pm

Azaghal wrote:
Paul has some fixes to the prices, which puts everything in-line with the rest of the SJ line. Basically Sails cost 2,000 per 10-ton set, oars 1,000 per 10-ton set, minor helms are at 1,000 gp per ton, and major helms are 1,500 gp per ton IIRC.
Using these rules could we postulate a helms up to 1,000 tons or so. Reason I'm asking is that the Starfly plant Monstrous Compendium entry makes it clear that the EIN is producing a full sized Starfly tree ship.
Sure. It'd be hideously expensive and complex to operate, but we've seen bigger in SJ lore (crystal citadels :P )
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Azaghal » Mon May 03, 2010 10:43 pm

True, but who knows how big the tree will end up growing.
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Jaid » Tue May 04, 2010 3:24 am

strictly speaking, certain products (i believe the astromundi cluster is one, and one of the compendiums is another i think) indicate you can just hot glue* multiple helms together to create a super helm.

* hot glue may or may not actually be involved, but there is some way to link them apparently.

specifically, the evil sun mage people have ginormous ships with such hot glued spelljamming helms to propel them, and there's some stone ship that has linked death helms (different from lifejammers for the record) to propel a ship of around 250 tons.

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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Azaghal » Tue May 04, 2010 4:03 am

That was my 1st thought for allowing us build larger ships was multi-helms. Have to look at the differences in pricing.
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by GMWestermeyer » Thu May 06, 2010 1:38 am

Big Mac wrote: Actually, fitting Spelljammer onto campaign settings that were not designed for it, is something I'm very interested in at the moment. Like I said above, it is easy to just drop in a conventional crystal sphere. I'm actually interested in finding ways to retain things that are hard to retain.
I'm afraid I won't be much help there. I experimented a bit a decade ago, primarily adding the Thieves World universe. I came to the conclusion that trying to mix/match such settings with Spelljammer ends up destroying both settings, creating a bastard setting that has the proper flavor of neither. <shrug>. Sorry!

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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by night_druid » Thu May 06, 2010 12:49 pm

Jaid wrote:strictly speaking, certain products (i believe the astromundi cluster is one, and one of the compendiums is another i think) indicate you can just hot glue* multiple helms together to create a super helm.
The materials were very inconsitent in that regard. In the early materials, it was implied that linking two helms together (other than the Series Helm) was an extremely trickly and complicated process. A group of Ogre Magi discovered the trick, and they were the terror of wildspace long after the First Unhuman Wars ended. Later SJ products made it way too easy, giving us the Stoneship (300 tons, death helms), the Zoocraft (200 tons, major helms), and the infamous antillian ships (crystal ship & crystalline entity, er, citadel).
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by night_druid » Thu May 06, 2010 12:50 pm

GMWestermeyer wrote:I'm afraid I won't be much help there. I experimented a bit a decade ago, primarily adding the Thieves World universe. I came to the conclusion that trying to mix/match such settings with Spelljammer ends up destroying both settings, creating a bastard setting that has the proper flavor of neither. <shrug>. Sorry!
So does that mean you've dropped Ilsigspace from your map?
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Big Mac » Thu May 06, 2010 10:38 pm

night_druid wrote:
GMWestermeyer wrote:Anyway, so I just treat Hackspace as another sphere. Since my home sphere is Bralspace, I just use the various concepts of Hackspace the same way I would groups from Greyspace or Realmspace.
If you're not going to mix Star Trek/Wars with Garweeze Wurld, that would be my approach. Hackspace is just another sphere.
Two out of three HackJammer authors is cool by me. Do either of you know what Rian would do?
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by night_druid » Thu May 06, 2010 10:50 pm

Big Mac wrote:Two out of three HackJammer authors is cool by me. Do either of you know what Rian would do?
Probably the same, although I'm not sure why you need our premission. It's not like we'll come kicking down your door if you "play the wrong way". :lol:
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Big Mac » Tue May 11, 2010 2:18 am

night_druid wrote:
Big Mac wrote:Two out of three HackJammer authors is cool by me. Do either of you know what Rian would do?
Probably the same, although I'm not sure why you need our premission. It's not like we'll come kicking down your door if you "play the wrong way". :lol:
LOL - It isn't actually that at all.

I don't need anyone's permission. But I do want, to take someone's else's style and work with that.

I could (if I made the time for it) scratch build an entire universe for Spelljammer, but then every crystal sphere would be just another Shepheardspace clone. Some people get bugged by weird details that are dropped into SJ products, but I see them as opportunities to make a sphere feel different to other spheres.

That is why I will never really embrace the 1st edition "make it your own" attitude. I want to "make it not my own".

This strange barrier that was half built around Hackspace was an opportunity to do something different. It was also a pain in the butt to deal with, but if you three had decided to work with it, rather than chuck it, I'd have been tempted to follow that lead.

But I think that the problems outweigh the benefits.
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by GMWestermeyer » Mon May 24, 2010 12:00 am

night_druid wrote:
GMWestermeyer wrote:I'm afraid I won't be much help there. I experimented a bit a decade ago, primarily adding the Thieves World universe. I came to the conclusion that trying to mix/match such settings with Spelljammer ends up destroying both settings, creating a bastard setting that has the proper flavor of neither. <shrug>. Sorry!
So does that mean you've dropped Ilsigspace from your map?
Yes, though the rebooted Thieves World went and made me reconsider, since it included characters obviously drawn from other worlds. :)

Actually, I've tried to drop all non-TSR worlds from the list, with the exception of the Hackmaster spheres & the two spheres (Tauruspace & Gromspace) I invented which have attained enough popularity to get canon traction within my own mental map. I don't consider Bralspace truly my own invention, I think it's presence is strongly implied in the TSR Spelljammer novels. :)

Of the famous fantasy worlds, I consider the following completely unsuitable for adding to Spell/Hackjammer list of spheres:

Jordan's Wheel of Time
the Dernyi world
Tolkien's Middle Earth
Edding's Belgariad world
R.E. Howard's Hyborean world


Worlds that are more suitable:
Moorcock's Melnibonean World
Lovecraft's Dreamlands (actually has slavers who fly black galleys down from the moon)
Lieber's Lankhmar

Thieves World is now rather iffy for me. The new series, and the Tempus novels involve a great deal of planar travel.

A good rule of thumb is that universes with significent planar travel are relatively suitable for Spelljammer addition. The more self-contained a world, the less likely it is to be good for Spelljammer addition.

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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Big Mac » Mon May 24, 2010 2:24 am

GMWestermeyer wrote:
night_druid wrote:
GMWestermeyer wrote:I'm afraid I won't be much help there. I experimented a bit a decade ago, primarily adding the Thieves World universe. I came to the conclusion that trying to mix/match such settings with Spelljammer ends up destroying both settings, creating a bastard setting that has the proper flavor of neither. <shrug>. Sorry!
So does that mean you've dropped Ilsigspace from your map?
Yes, though the rebooted Thieves World went and made me reconsider, since it included characters obviously drawn from other worlds. :)

Actually, I've tried to drop all non-TSR worlds from the list, with the exception of the Hackmaster spheres & the two spheres (Tauruspace & Gromspace) I invented which have attained enough popularity to get canon traction within my own mental map. I don't consider Bralspace truly my own invention, I think it's presence is strongly implied in the TSR Spelljammer novels. :)
Hmm. That is probably a very logical rule, considering that you would be adding fanon that links IP from two companies and either of them could bash you over it.

And in the unlikely event that WotC ever asked the fan community for people to work on a 4e Spelljammer Campaign Guide, I would hope that you could take a large chunk of your more logical fanon (which has been used for ages and therefore has been kind of playtested) and throw that at the design process. Polution with non-TSR IP might make your content seem "poisonous" to their lawyers.
GMWestermeyer wrote:Of the famous fantasy worlds, I consider the following completely unsuitable for adding to Spell/Hackjammer list of spheres:

Jordan's Wheel of Time
the Dernyi world
Tolkien's Middle Earth
Edding's Belgariad world
R.E. Howard's Hyborean world
I don't know most of those (yet), but that seems very much like a five fingered gauntlet has been thrown down. ;)

I'd love to thrash these out in five threads. Especialy if I could get Jaid to slug it out with you in a (friendly) debate. :lol:
GMWestermeyer wrote:Worlds that are more suitable:
Moorcock's Melnibonean World
Lovecraft's Dreamlands (actually has slavers who fly black galleys down from the moon)
Lieber's Lankhmar
Looks like I need to read these three, especially Dreamlands.
GMWestermeyer wrote:Thieves World is now rather iffy for me. The new series, and the Tempus novels involve a great deal of planar travel.
Maybe we should have a thread on Thieves World too...as I'd love to know more, but that would take us away from HackJammer.
GMWestermeyer wrote:A good rule of thumb is that universes with significent planar travel are relatively suitable for Spelljammer addition. The more self-contained a world, the less likely it is to be good for Spelljammer addition.
Hmm. I'm not so sure that planar travel couldn't just imply the same sort of thing that the Pirates of Gith do.

It might be interesting to have individual spheres where spelljamming was radically different. You could for example have a sphere where helms didn't accelerate to spelljammer speed, but instead could slowly accelerate to SR 20, perhaps adding +1 SR per turn. And ships could hop over to the Plane of Air when they reached SR 20 and accelerated. Something like that could bring in an element of planar travel, but not necessarily make space travel something that would be non-existant. (And the logic could be tied to the local nature and therefore not "pollute" the rest of the SJ setting.)
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Azaghal » Mon May 24, 2010 4:54 am

GMWestermeyer wrote:
night_druid wrote:
GMWestermeyer wrote:I'm afraid I won't be much help there. I experimented a bit a decade ago, primarily adding the Thieves World universe. I came to the conclusion that trying to mix/match such settings with Spelljammer ends up destroying both settings, creating a bastard setting that has the proper flavor of neither. <shrug>. Sorry!
So does that mean you've dropped Ilsigspace from your map?
Yes, though the rebooted Thieves World went and made me reconsider, since it included characters obviously drawn from other worlds. :)

Actually, I've tried to drop all non-TSR worlds from the list, with the exception of the Hackmaster spheres & the two spheres (Tauruspace & Gromspace) I invented which have attained enough popularity to get canon traction within my own mental map. I don't consider Bralspace truly my own invention, I think it's presence is strongly implied in the TSR Spelljammer novels. :)

Of the famous fantasy worlds, I consider the following completely unsuitable for adding to Spell/Hackjammer list of spheres:

Jordan's Wheel of Time Difficult but doable
the Dernyi world Major psionics usage, could be doable
Tolkien's Middle Earth The traditional Middle Earth uses a tiny fraction of Tolkiens map, mechanics would make it awkward
Edding's Belgariad world Could be doable.
R.E. Howard's Hyborean world Could be doable.


Worlds that are more suitable:
Moorcock's Melnibonean World
Lovecraft's Dreamlands (actually has slavers who fly black galleys down from the moon)
Lieber's Lankhmar

Thieves World is now rather iffy for me. The new series, and the Tempus novels involve a great deal of planar travel.

A good rule of thumb is that universes with significent planar travel are relatively suitable for Spelljammer addition. The more self-contained a world, the less likely it is to be good for Spelljammer addition.

Any of the worlds could be doable they would require significant work, some more so than others. Not that I'm volunteering at this time.
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Jaid » Tue May 25, 2010 10:20 am

heh, actually not familiar with jordan's wheel of time series.

dernyi i'm not very familiar, but it could be possible.

tolkien's middle earth, as presented, i would find almost completely unsuited. if you were to put gandalf side by side with a level 5 wizard, i slightly suspect the nameless wizard would be the superior spellcaster (though gandalf would have other things at his disposal, the simple fact is that middle earth wizards and magic don't match up well with D&D wizards and magic at all).

the belgariad world i could actually see working better than most. being a spellcaster is a learned skill, and there are actually a number of spellcasters in the world, as well as something akin to a cleric. it allows for a very high level of power without borking things horribly, and overall imo would fit.

the hyborean world is, if i'm not mistaken, conan? it could possibly be done i suppose, but i'm only really familiar with a couple of the movies.

so overall, i'm afraid you're not going to see that nerdfight you were hoping for big mac :P

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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Azaghal » Tue May 25, 2010 11:29 am

Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time I could discuss, Katerine Kurtz Dernyi it has been 20 years since I've read, there is a Dragon article or two back pre 100 I think.

ME, The magic is just so low powered even though Gandalf is supposed to be a serious archmage.
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by night_druid » Tue May 25, 2010 9:30 pm

GMWestermeyer wrote:Yes, though the rebooted Thieves World went and made me reconsider, since it included characters obviously drawn from other worlds. :)
Heh.
Actually, I've tried to drop all non-TSR worlds from the list, with the exception of the Hackmaster spheres & the two spheres (Tauruspace & Gromspace) I invented which have attained enough popularity to get canon traction within my own mental map. I don't consider Bralspace truly my own invention, I think it's presence is strongly implied in the TSR Spelljammer novels. :)

A good rule of thumb is that universes with significent planar travel are relatively suitable for Spelljammer addition. The more self-contained a world, the less likely it is to be good for Spelljammer addition.
I guess for me, the rule of thumb would be "does it have anything to offer SJ?" I'm not really a fan of "dump all RPG/fantasy worlds into a crystal sphere". Especially when said world is so different from D&D rules to make gaming there nigh impossible. ;)
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Azaghal » Tue May 25, 2010 11:01 pm

night_druid wrote:


I guess for me, the rule of thumb would be "does it have anything to offer SJ?" I'm not really a fan of "dump all RPG/fantasy worlds into a crystal sphere". Especially when said world is so different from D&D rules to make gaming there nigh impossible. ;)

Good point.
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Big Mac » Wed May 26, 2010 9:59 pm

Jaid wrote:tolkien's middle earth, as presented, i would find almost completely unsuited. if you were to put gandalf side by side with a level 5 wizard, i slightly suspect the nameless wizard would be the superior spellcaster (though gandalf would have other things at his disposal, the simple fact is that middle earth wizards and magic don't match up well with D&D wizards and magic at all).
I suppose that you could have impose character altering effects within a crystal sphere to reduce the power of incoming character, and then restore them when they left. That would be a fudge, but some fudges could (temporarily) bump up the power of PCs too.
Jaid wrote:so overall, i'm afraid you're not going to see that nerdfight you were hoping for big mac :P
Shame. You are so good at them. ;)
Azaghal wrote:
night_druid wrote:I guess for me, the rule of thumb would be "does it have anything to offer SJ?" I'm not really a fan of "dump all RPG/fantasy worlds into a crystal sphere". Especially when said world is so different from D&D rules to make gaming there nigh impossible. ;)
Good point.
Well, we are going to need something to do, when we are all 180 years old and are brains in jars. We might as well save the difficult fantasy worlds until last. :P ;)
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Azaghal » Wed May 26, 2010 10:22 pm

I just picked up the new Tolkien release "Children of Hurin" set in the 1st age, it does have considerable more magic use involved in the background, I`ll see if it has more as the story progresses.

When I`m 180 I plan to be on the beach with 2 bimbos not in a jar Big Mac. :lol:
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Jaid » Thu May 27, 2010 10:47 am

Big Mac wrote:
Jaid wrote:so overall, i'm afraid you're not going to see that nerdfight you were hoping for big mac :P
Shame. You are so good at them. ;)
the key is to choose your battles wisely. if you point out a gaping hole that really does exist, people have a much harder time disagreeing with it, and it's much much easier to defend, because you can just keep on pointing to the truth. such as the fact that the rules support mercantile vessels being kobold-mined cubes of rock constructed at about 10 tons per day or so, operating on lifejammers fueled by chickens or rats. said (100 ton) ships being actually cheaper and faster to make and helm than even a small ship like a dragonfly would be :P

(which reminds me... have i yet done anything on the uses and abuses of infinity vine? i can't remember, though i think i did a mini-rant a while back. perhaps i should go back and see about updating my posts on the problems with ship weapons, and tweaking ship maneuverability, ship's rating, and nonmagical engines :P )

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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Big Mac » Thu May 27, 2010 11:46 am

Azaghal wrote:When I`m 180 I plan to be on the beach with 2 bimbos not in a jar Big Mac. :lol:
Well, assuming we can both escape the Carousel, I wish you the best of luck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSnLU9nyFSA
Jaid wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Jaid wrote:so overall, i'm afraid you're not going to see that nerdfight you were hoping for big mac :P
Shame. You are so good at them. ;)
the key is to choose your battles wisely. if you point out a gaping hole that really does exist, people have a much harder time disagreeing with it, and it's much much easier to defend, because you can just keep on pointing to the truth. such as the fact that the rules support mercantile vessels being kobold-mined cubes of rock constructed at about 10 tons per day or so, operating on lifejammers fueled by chickens or rats. said (100 ton) ships being actually cheaper and faster to make and helm than even a small ship like a dragonfly would be :P
I don't like debates for the sake of it, but those were really educational.
Jaid wrote:(which reminds me... have i yet done anything on the uses and abuses of infinity vine? i can't remember, though i think i did a mini-rant a while back. perhaps i should go back and see about updating my posts on the problems with ship weapons, and tweaking ship maneuverability, ship's rating, and nonmagical engines :P )
I remember something about infinity vine.

Anyhoo, we are getting a bit off-topic from HackJammer...so maybe we could debate something from the HJ rules! :twisted:
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by night_druid » Fri May 28, 2010 7:32 pm

Azaghal wrote:When I`m 180 I plan to be on the beach with 2 bimbos not in a jar Big Mac. :lol:
Heh, same here. I certainly hope I've got a hottie on each arm when I'm 180, and not a brain in a jar like Big Mac :lol:
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Big Mac » Sat May 29, 2010 7:31 pm

night_druid wrote:
Azaghal wrote:When I`m 180 I plan to be on the beach with 2 bimbos not in a jar Big Mac. :lol:
Heh, same here. I certainly hope I've got a hottie on each arm when I'm 180, and not a brain in a jar like Big Mac :lol:
Be careful what you wish for. It might come out more like this. :lol:
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Azaghal » Sat May 29, 2010 9:22 pm

Big Mac wrote:
night_druid wrote:
Azaghal wrote:When I`m 180 I plan to be on the beach with 2 bimbos not in a jar Big Mac. :lol:
Heh, same here. I certainly hope I've got a hottie on each arm when I'm 180, and not a brain in a jar like Big Mac :lol:
Be careful what you wish for. It might come out more like this. :lol:

ROFL!!!! Hope not.
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Re: [HackJammer] Official Q&A Thread

Post by Big Mac » Sat May 29, 2010 11:52 pm

Azaghal wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
night_druid wrote:
Azaghal wrote:When I`m 180 I plan to be on the beach with 2 bimbos not in a jar Big Mac. :lol:
Heh, same here. I certainly hope I've got a hottie on each arm when I'm 180, and not a brain in a jar like Big Mac :lol:
Be careful what you wish for. It might come out more like this. :lol:
ROFL!!!! Hope not.
Meanwhile I might be dating this woman and her sister!
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