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Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:09 pm
by kalos72
How do you guys typically address air? I am looking for a magical way more then likely... :)



Thanks!

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:23 pm
by night_druid
Any manner of "fog" spell will do the trick.

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:25 pm
by kalos72
Like Fog Cloud? How does that clean your air?

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:50 pm
by night_druid
IIRC it assumes that the fog is created, thus akin to "create air". They didn't really go too deeply into "X-fog spell cleans Y man-days of air per caster level", just that a fog spell just returns an atmosphere to a "clean" state.

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:56 am
by AuldDragon
According to the tournament-style rules in the War Captain's Companion, Wall of Fog affects 5 tons, plus 5 tons per level; seems reasonable to assume 600,+600 man-days of air per level. Fog Cloud would then affect 1200 man-days of air per level.

Jeff

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:37 am
by kalos72
Would a bottle of wind work as well here if fog does?

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:52 am
by AuldDragon
Wind spells and effects do not affect air freshness, as they just move the air around rather than creating it.

Jeff

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:15 am
by kalos72
But the description at D&D Wiki says one use is to have people breath from it, thats why I thought it might work here.

Not sure if its a version change thing maybe...

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:20 am
by AuldDragon
A Dungeon Master needs to adjudicate each spell and effect individually if it is not covered in the Spelljammer material; I was basing my recommendation on the rules for Gust of Wind, Wind Wall, etc.. I do not know of a magical item in AD&D called a "Bottle of Wind."

Jeff

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:44 am
by Halvor
How about Hurwaeti

From the Complete Spacers Handbook
"Each adult hurwaeti can produce a fog cloud, per the spell, once per day. The volume of the log cloud consists of a rectangular area 60' on a side and 20' high. Only the fog bank version of the cloud can be produced. This ability is a natural process rather than a spell, so the cloud cannot be dissipated by a dispel magic or other spell, though a gust of wind or other wind spell will break up the fog cloud. Multiple hurwaeti working together can refresh the atmosphere of a ship by using their fog cloud ability. Each hurwaeti can produce enough fog cloud to refresh the atmosphere associated with l0 tons worth of vessel. All of the hurwaeti have to work simultaneously to produce enough fog cloud t o refresh the vessel's entire atmosphere in order for the atmosphere to be restored from deadly to fresh"

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:07 pm
by Big Mac
kalos72 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:09 pm
How do you guys typically address air? I am looking for a magical way more then likely... :)
One other thing to bear in mind is that not all ships need to have one crewman per ton.

If you can find a ship with a high tonnage, but a low crew requirement, you can take along a lot of empty air, instead of taking along a lot of extra crewmembers.

Of course, if some of the crew get killed, and you don't have enough spare spacehands, you would end up with the ship underperforming.

Some Figureheads of Protection purify air. You need one that is full-bodied. They regenerate 1d12 man/days of air every day. (I'm not quite sure if that is a fixed amount, with the die roll letting you know how good they are or a variable one. But I think it means there are 12 different types that generate between 1 man/day of air and 12 man/days of air.)

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:00 pm
by Icarus
Well, one thing I will say is that the "Bottle of Wind" I think you're referring to, Kalos72, is a "homebrew" item … you may be thinking of the "Bottle of Air" that is SRD standard.

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:15 pm
by Icarus
As far as how I typically address magically cleaning the air …
I guess I didn't ever really have too much problem with air … my players have always been fairly fastidious about making certain they had plenty of air supply.
In a pinch, I usually find that "Create Air" worked well enough for all of the need I ever had.
Also, something I found in reading, which I hadn't ever thought of … if a "living ship" is predominantly a plant, it may create/recycle its own breathable air. Also, I believe in some later edition, some helms may function as also a a magical item to create air.

For reference: "Create Air" is a 1st-level priest spell in the Spelljammer Boxed set, Concordance of Arcane Space, p21-22

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:20 am
by Big Mac
One thing nobody has mentioned yet, is that you can buy plants and put them on a ship.

Plants make air. Buy enough plants and they will make as much air as a person breathes. Buy edible plants and they also work as a back-up food supply.

I believe there may also be mosses that create air...or maybe light.

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:41 am
by Seethyr
Big Mac wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:20 am
One thing nobody has mentioned yet, is that you can buy plants and put them on a ship.

Plants make air. Buy enough plants and they will make as much air as a person breathes. Buy edible plants and they also work as a back-up food supply.

I believe there may also be mosses that create air...or maybe light.
Trees, or an equivalent amount of plants take 7 or 8 per person for sustainability I believe. I am not too up on Soelljammer these days, is that doable?

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:41 am
by Jaid
Seethyr wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:41 am
Big Mac wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:20 am
One thing nobody has mentioned yet, is that you can buy plants and put them on a ship.

Plants make air. Buy enough plants and they will make as much air as a person breathes. Buy edible plants and they also work as a back-up food supply.

I believe there may also be mosses that create air...or maybe light.
Trees, or an equivalent amount of plants take 7 or 8 per person for sustainability I believe. I am not too up on Soelljammer these days, is that doable?
in SJ, it requires 5 square feet (edit: one 5 foot square) per (medium) person.

whether or not that is an achievable goal depends largely on how closely your DM compares various ship deckplans, and which hull you have (not gonna go into details here, but some ship deckplans give a heck of a lot more space per SJ ton than others)

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:15 am
by Big Mac
Jaid wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:41 am
Seethyr wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:41 am
Big Mac wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:20 am
One thing nobody has mentioned yet, is that you can buy plants and put them on a ship.

Plants make air. Buy enough plants and they will make as much air as a person breathes. Buy edible plants and they also work as a back-up food supply.

I believe there may also be mosses that create air...or maybe light.
Trees, or an equivalent amount of plants take 7 or 8 per person for sustainability I believe. I am not too up on Soelljammer these days, is that doable?
in SJ, it requires 5 square feet (edit: one 5 foot square) per (medium) person.

whether or not that is an achievable goal depends largely on how closely your DM compares various ship deckplans, and which hull you have (not gonna go into details here, but some ship deckplans give a heck of a lot more space per SJ ton than others)
The sort of mathematics that you applied to weapons could probably help here.

What's the general opinion of growing plants on the underside of a ship's hull? There is plenty of space there, but you can't use it on a ship that is going to land on worlds (without the plants falling off).

I wonder if hanging baskets could do some work, and window boxes, mounted outside of portholes/windows.

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:51 pm
by Jaid
reverse gravity is good for a lot of things. i'm not sure it's good for most plants, other than maybe climbing vines or moss/lichen that can grow on walls. the thing is, it doesn't just keep you from going to round planets... it keeps you from flying above or near anything bigger than you, including other ships and space stations. you come in 5 feet above the gravity plane on bral, and there goes your reverse deck plants... you come in 5 feet below, and there goes your regular gravity deck plants.

most things you can just secure in place; you can strap a barrel to a wall, store things in footlockers bolted to the floor or in bags in cargo nets etc (and most likely, that is one of the things that experienced wildspace crews do that gives them their bonuses, while green wildspace crews most likely forget a thing here and there until it becomes habit that you don't leave your hairbrush and mirror sitting on your desk, you store them away; you don't like the inkwell open, you seal it; and for the love of all that is holy, the chamber pot has a lid for a *reason*. you can't really just hold all the dirt in place in a plant pot, even a hanging one.

as to mathing out the differences in ship hull sizes, i know a few people have already done that, and i don't love math so much that i'm in any rush to repeat their work without a good reason :P we just need to find one of those old threads :)

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:59 am
by Cromstar
Jaid wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:51 pm
reverse gravity is good for a lot of things. i'm not sure it's good for most plants, other than maybe climbing vines or moss/lichen that can grow on walls.
Actually, plants won't care. Plants don't care about the lack of gravity either. NASA, ESA, etc has done a lot of cool things in regards to this kind of research, and the general answer has been "plants do some strange things we don't expect, but are pretty much unfazed by it." Reverse gravity would just be like normal gravity to pretty much any normal plant. Side note: moss in zero-gravity likes to grow into weird spirals that, if I am remembering correctly, are radially symmetrical.
the thing is, it doesn't just keep you from going to round planets... it keeps you from flying above or near anything bigger than you, including other ships and space stations. you come in 5 feet above the gravity plane on bral, and there goes your reverse deck plants... you come in 5 feet below, and there goes your regular gravity deck plants.

most things you can just secure in place; you can strap a barrel to a wall, store things in footlockers bolted to the floor or in bags in cargo nets etc (and most likely, that is one of the things that experienced wildspace crews do that gives them their bonuses, while green wildspace crews most likely forget a thing here and there until it becomes habit that you don't leave your hairbrush and mirror sitting on your desk, you store them away; you don't like the inkwell open, you seal it; and for the love of all that is holy, the chamber pot has a lid for a *reason*. you can't really just hold all the dirt in place in a plant pot, even a hanging one.
I would argue it could be done. Ever seen the black cloth-like ground covering used in gardening? Take something like that to form a hanging ball of dirt for a plant to grow in, with the only outlets being where the plants grow out from it and you could make a working hanging basket that would flip around when gravity planes change without too much trouble? Similarly, you could probably put a hard covering on, say, tree pots to keep dirt in, though that wouldn't work for most soft plants, it might for trees.

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:31 am
by Halvor
Has anyone suggested mixing in some of the plant humanoids as crew, as plants they would consume CO2 and produce O2, they also would fill up crew spaces with non-oxygen consumers.

Re: Clean Air Solutions

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:59 am
by Jaid
there aren't a lot of plant humanoids available, and anyways hurwaeti are as good as multiple plants iirc.

still not entirely convinced on the plant bags working too well. dirt is heavy, shifting around a lot would really strain the bags, which might be hypothetically possible to deal with, but is also going to require regular extra maintenance and supplies (basically, you're going to have to regularly inspect the bags and re-bag any plant that is showing signs of breaking through, or any bag that has stretched enough to allow the dirt to move around much as that will basically be almost like an earthquake to them every time the ship turns... maintenance is something you'll have to deal with to some extent regardless in most cases, since plants will eventually outgrow a pot generally speaking and of course they'll need regular watering and tending, but to a greatly reduced extent).

or, to put it another way... it probably can be done, but is probably more trouble than it's worth.

i would expect vines to be the plants of choice for just such reasons. there are a variety of vines that grow berries and such, and so long as you build them a scaffold they should keep themselves in place fairly effectively for the most part. you can get a lot of plant volume with only a relatively small area of dirt, and the volume can be out-of-the-way enough to still use an area. it could even act as a sun-shade for the crew and offer concealment in a fight in addition to providing some food and cleaning the air.