Soliciting new ship ideas.

[vladimirheraldsson]

Is it just me, or has everyone else who has tried to map out the Scro Battlewagon come out with 4 primary decks, 5 platforms and just over 100 spatial tons? As opposed to the official figure of 80 tons. All we have for is one artist's rendering and a written account in the War Captain's Companion: Book 2 "Ship Recognition Manual".
Which don't match in some aspects, specifically what looks to be a hanger bay for Goblin blades, with no mention of it in the write up. I can fit 14 to 16 blades on it (8-10 in hanger, 4-6 in between catapult stations, but have to put 20 tons of cargo space (plus a hatch to the Bombard turret) on its own deck. There in lies the problem enter combat ready to give the elven armadas a run for their money or be able to eat before/after? Which might be the reason for their rarity and being within a fleet.
I interpreted the the four squares as oar holes, as 8 30ft oars + rudder = MC E to me. The Bombard dome turret is only 3/4 of a ton, and to me isn't the big issue.
The main deck in the picture has an overhang (which eats up space, but makes sense to rotate the catapults) allowing the catapults to be moved to the deck edge retaining the center for the goblin blades/cargo? If the catapults are center lined,the overhang shaved off (saving 5 tons) the blade bows stuck over the deck edge, allowing for 8 blades embarked. (guess I'm about to find out who the Elf lovers are the hard way!)
A double battlewagon (my proposal) would have the center (gravity plane) deck with 8 oars to each side and rudder (still MC E) a cargo/qtrs deck above and below the center deck, followed by hanger, main. The doomed bombard turrets are mounted on aft observation platform (delete med ballista). The ram arms are straighten to allow ballista platforms on both sides of the gravity plane. Otherwise mirror image, but the real difference is 36 goblin blades (10 each hanger, 8 each main deck).

[Azaghal]

I likes it! Deckplans?

[vladimirheraldsson]

Was looking for input on the original, before putting finishing touches on it! Being new, don't know if this ship's "fat" has been chewed before. Will be on vacation for three weeks, then polish and put up for dart practice.

[Azaghal]

Was looking for input on the original, before putting finishing touches on it! Being new, don't know if this ship's "fat" has been chewed before. Will be on vacation for three weeks, then polish and put up for dart practice.

IIRC it hasn`t had more than a brief mention or 2, really it is something we need to spend sometime on.

[vladimirheraldsson]

I hope getting some of the "Nuggets" polished. Plus some new ones, just might get things moving

[Azaghal]

I hope so, that was the idea of this thread. Btw, have a good vacation.

[Jaid]

ok, a nitpick that's been bothering me for a while:

These are hangers.

These are hangars.

Please familiarise yourself with the difference.

anyways, i am not particularly surprised at the deck plans, pictures, and ship's listed dimensions all disagreeing. truth be told, i'm not sure we have a ship where all three of those things match in the official rules (several fans have revised deckplans and/or listed ship size/dimensions to fit iirc, and in those cases they fit much better )

[night_druid]

I dislike how the larger ships, especially Armada & Battlewagon, are so out-of-sync with every other ship in spelljammer. Basically twice or triple the number of weapons a ship that size should have, plus they carry a fleet of fighters. They seek to break just about every rule to SJ ship-building, simply because they're big. By rights they'd have to be a good 300 tons to have all the stuff they have.

[Azaghal]

I dislike how the larger ships, especially Armada & Battlewagon, are so out-of-sync with every other ship in spelljammer. Basically twice or triple the number of weapons a ship that size should have, plus they carry a fleet of fighters. They seek to break just about every rule to SJ ship-building, simply because they're big. By rights they'd have to be a good 300 tons to have all the stuff they have.

I think it falls to us as a community to redo all of the ships of SJ and that way the will all work properly.

[Azaghal]

Balista on the halfshell!

Idea for a fighter, take one half oystershell, size roughly oval 6`x8` mount a light balista forward with a non-magical engine or a lesser helm.

Crew 2
Size 5 ton
move by helm type
manuverability C
Lands Land only.
Armor Light wood/shell

Makes for an inexpensize fighter that can be deployed in large groups, other than the helm it`s very cheap (find a giant shell) What`s the cost of the smallest HJ helm?

[Jaid]

Balista on the halfshell!

Idea for a fighter, take one half oystershell, size roughly oval 6`x8` mount a light balista forward with a non-magical engine or a lesser helm.

Crew 2
Size 5 ton
move by helm type
manuverability C
Lands Land only.
Armor Light wood/shell

Makes for an inexpensize fighter that can be deployed in large groups, other than the helm it`s very cheap (find a giant shell) What`s the cost of the smallest HJ helm?

errr... which measure of tonnage are you using? the 10 cubic yard method gives 2700 cubic feet. in order for this ship to fill even one ton and be a rectangle (which would have a larger area) with a 6' x 8' area, the ship would have to be about 50 feet tall. now, this can change depending on which SJ ton you prefer to treat as the correct one, but i'm pretty sure none of them are close to being small enough to fit what you're thinking.

if you want a cheap 5 ton fighter, it would most likely be something along the lines of being about 5 yards across, 8 yards long, and 1.25 yards tall (for hand rails etc). or, if you prefer to use feet, about 24 feet long x 15 feet across x 4 feet tall (give or take). which may be bigger than you thought, but is still pretty small as SJ ships go

edit: hang on a sec, 1 cu yd is 27 cu ft, so it's actually 2700 cu ft per SJ ton...

[Azaghal]

I was doing that on the fly!

Jaid:if you want a cheap 5 ton fighter, it would most likely be something along the lines of being about 5 yards across, 8 yards long, and 1.25 yards tall (for hand rails etc). or, if you prefer to use feet, about 24 feet long x 15 feet across x 4 feet tall (give or take). which may be bigger than you thought, but is still pretty small as SJ ships go

Azaghal wrote:
Balista on the halfshell!

Idea for a fighter, take one half oystershell, size roughly oval 5 yards across, 8 yards long, and 1.25 yards tall (for hand rails etc) mount a light balista forward with a non-magical engine or a lesser helm.

Crew 2
Size 5 ton
move by helm type
manuverability C
Lands Land only.
Armor Light wood/shell

Makes for an inexpensize fighter that can be deployed in large groups, other than the helm it`s very cheap (find a giant shell) What`s the cost of the smallest HJ helm?

[Jaid]

oh yeah, meant to answer your second question too.

the cheapest actual helm is 100,000 gold pieces in SJ. if you allow hackjammer, the cheapest not-quite-a-helm-but-close-enough-for-a-fighter thing is much much much cheaper, though only good enough for 10 tons and unable to operate fully on a planet (iirc it's 2,000 gold for ornery oars, 3,000 gold for splendid sails) and have an SR of 2.

in actual SJ rules, nonmagical engines cost 10,000 gold, work on ships of up to 100 tons, and have an SR of 1. (note: personally i prefer to assume 100 gold per SJ ton, rather than just a flat 10,000 gold cost regardless of what ship the engine is designed to power, but that's not how the rules say it works)

[Azaghal]

oh yeah, meant to answer your second question too.

the cheapest actual helm is 100,000 gold pieces in SJ. if you allow hackjammer, the cheapest not-quite-a-helm-but-close-enough-for-a-fighter thing is much much much cheaper, though only good enough for 10 tons and unable to operate fully on a planet (iirc it's 2,000 gold for ornery oars, 3,000 gold for splendid sails) and have an SR of 2.

in actual SJ rules, nonmagical engines cost 10,000 gold, work on ships of up to 100 tons, and have an SR of 1. (note: personally i prefer to assume 100 gold per SJ ton, rather than just a flat 10,000 gold cost regardless of what ship the engine is designed to power, but that's not how the rules say it works)

I tend to agree with you there, at that pricing we could make the helm cost only 500 gp, with an SR of 1, that would work since it's more or less a throw away attrition fighter idea.

[dulsi]

I tend to agree with you there, at that pricing we could make the helm cost only 500 gp, with an SR of 1, that would work since it's more or less a throw away attrition fighter idea.

Instead of making cheaper helms maybe you should make them more expensive. Specifically I'm thinking a aircraft carrier helm of some kind. It can give SR of some value to fighters within some distance. With that the fighter become even cheaper and easier to produce. You also don't need mages in the fighter crafts. I haven't really thought of exact rules for it to work.

[Azaghal]

I really like this idea. Have to put some thought into it.

[Jaid]

oh my... yeah... i like that aircraft carrier helm idea. solves a lot of ideas. it would have to be *really* expensive, mind you, but it should theoretically be possible. after all, they can do it with a crown for one spelljammer.

[cab]

I keep coming back to the premise that a space-faring society, after several generations, will be designing ships with a very new concept of utility. And we're still, for the most part, considering how we'd adapt what we know for space travel. So we're thinking about very cool ideas around shells, creature shaped things, ship shaped things, etc.

Consider the design brief; you've got a ship that carries an atmosphere in the void. The atmosphere is kind of blobby, it isn't ever going to be an aerodynamic thing, so actually building streamlining in doesn't help particilarly. So we've got no particular reason to consider this in design.

We've got a strange kind of gravity going on, where we've got distinct advantage in having multiple flat surfaces. We probably want an easy way to get from one to the other through the middle of the vessel, so lets have ladders mounted on a central swivel, you clime down it, it swivels when you start to weigh it down, you climb up, you're on the other plane.

Ideally we'd have the capacity to move in any direction; simply put we want no obvious bow or stern that gives a weak point for enemies. So circular forms would work well. We could then mount weaponry in covered decks on either side of the now circular, flat-ish, disc shaped ship...

Naturally there are other ways you could consider space faring ships. Suppose you found a way of stabilising an extradimensional space at the centre of a small, innocuous looking vessel. Like, say, a wooden box. And you then worked out how to mount a helm therein. I shan't suggest hiring a chronomancer...

[Dave L]

Ideally we'd have the capacity to move in any direction; simply put we want no obvious bow or stern that gives a weak point for enemies. So circular forms would work well. We could then mount weaponry in covered decks on either side of the now circular, flat-ish, disc shaped ship...

Sort of a larger version of this?



Sorry, couldn't resist!

[Azaghal]

I keep coming back to the premise that a space-faring society, after several generations, will be designing ships with a very new concept of utility. And we're still, for the most part, considering how we'd adapt what we know for space travel. So we're thinking about very cool ideas around shells, creature shaped things, ship shaped things, etc.

Consider the design brief; you've got a ship that carries an atmosphere in the void. The atmosphere is kind of blobby, it isn't ever going to be an aerodynamic thing, so actually building streamlining in doesn't help particilarly. So we've got no particular reason to consider this in design.

We've got a strange kind of gravity going on, where we've got distinct advantage in having multiple flat surfaces. We probably want an easy way to get from one to the other through the middle of the vessel, so lets have ladders mounted on a central swivel, you clime down it, it swivels when you start to weigh it down, you climb up, you're on the other plane.

Ideally we'd have the capacity to move in any direction; simply put we want no obvious bow or stern that gives a weak point for enemies. So circular forms would work well. We could then mount weaponry in covered decks on either side of the now circular, flat-ish, disc shaped ship...

Naturally there are other ways you could consider space faring ships. Suppose you found a way of stabilising an extradimensional space at the centre of a small, innocuous looking vessel. Like, say, a wooden box. And you then worked out how to mount a helm therein. I shan't suggest hiring a chronomancer...

A circular or spherical certainly makes sense or a boxy or rectangular shape as wel. With no wind resistance and no worries about landing on a planet a "starship" could be in any shape.

One issue with the dimensional space is that it will disappear/seal while in the flow.

[Azaghal]

Ideally we'd have the capacity to move in any direction; simply put we want no obvious bow or stern that gives a weak point for enemies. So circular forms would work well. We could then mount weaponry in covered decks on either side of the now circular, flat-ish, disc shaped ship...

Sort of a larger version of this?



Sorry, couldn't resist!

Sort of! hehe!

[cab]

How would the gravity work in and on a hollow cubic vessel?

[Azaghal]

How would the gravity work in and on a hollow cubic vessel?

Truly hollow? I`m not sure. If it had decks it would be normal, but hollow I have no Idea.

[cab]

How would the gravity work in and on a hollow cubic vessel?

Truly hollow? I`m not sure. If it had decks it would be normal, but hollow I have no Idea.

Strikes me that if you had six (or more) equal faces, then however you use it you've got twice that number of useable surfaces (interior and exterior). One might therefore imagine all sorts of geometric solids working very well. Then of course if you partition them you may end up with even more useable shapes; take the hollow cube and imagine it is itself made of four hollow cubes. Gravity may well just give up and cry in the corner, if it can work out which one...

[AuldDragon]

I keep coming back to the premise that a space-faring society, after several generations, will be designing ships with a very new concept of utility. And we're still, for the most part, considering how we'd adapt what we know for space travel. So we're thinking about very cool ideas around shells, creature shaped things, ship shaped things, etc.

Consider the design brief; you've got a ship that carries an atmosphere in the void. The atmosphere is kind of blobby, it isn't ever going to be an aerodynamic thing, so actually building streamlining in doesn't help particilarly. So we've got no particular reason to consider this in design.

We've got a strange kind of gravity going on, where we've got distinct advantage in having multiple flat surfaces. We probably want an easy way to get from one to the other through the middle of the vessel, so lets have ladders mounted on a central swivel, you clime down it, it swivels when you start to weigh it down, you climb up, you're on the other plane.

Ideally we'd have the capacity to move in any direction; simply put we want no obvious bow or stern that gives a weak point for enemies. So circular forms would work well. We could then mount weaponry in covered decks on either side of the now circular, flat-ish, disc shaped ship...

Naturally there are other ways you could consider space faring ships. Suppose you found a way of stabilising an extradimensional space at the centre of a small, innocuous looking vessel. Like, say, a wooden box. And you then worked out how to mount a helm therein. I shan't suggest hiring a chronomancer...

I dunno, I think the fantasy physics of sailing in wildspace are very similar to sailing on the ocean, but in three dimensions. Since it has never been mentioned that it is at all possible to move a galleon (for example) sideways under any circumstance, I think ships in Spelljammer NEED to have a bow. You'll note that the Xorn ship in the War Captain's Companion is round, but does not have a MC of A, which it should have if it can literally move in any direction it wants at a whim. Also remember that most ships need sails and rigging to help them maneuver. I don't think these are "holdovers" from groundling design aesthetics; these are general requirements for ships in wildspace.

That box you mentioned would only work if it were blue, of course, right?

Jeff