[Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

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nerik
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[Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by nerik » Sun May 15, 2011 6:03 pm

Well, after posting my map of the flow on Cartographer's Guild/group.php?groupid=9 I've decided to revise it.

MODERATOR EDIT (by Big Mac): Link fixed.

The revised map will be in two forms:
A 'GM's' map showing all spheres & flow rivers
A 'players' map which will resemble a chart PCs could actually obtain with 'unknown' features removed.

To poulate it, I went searching for as many fan-created spheres as I could find, as well as the quite detailed sphere descriptions on Beyond the Moons, I found extensive, but rather less detailed lists,
here and here
Although these give brief info on planet sizes and compositions they don't give other details, such as orbit sizes (vital if you want to know how big a sphere is).
In total, I've found 216 canon and fanon spheres (I've assembled a spreadsheet detailing them, if anyone wants it, just ask.)
IMHO there are a rather too many spheres with a large spherical fire body called 'sun' in the centre :P

Finally, if any of the authors of any of the spheres in this thread have any requests as to placement of their creations, I'll try and accomodate them.

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by Maldin » Mon May 16, 2011 5:17 am

I've always loved your flow map, nerik! I contacted you a couple of years ago about maybe trying to merge your map with my much more primative map (if for nothing else but my own personal campaign), but I recall you were using a program whose files I couldn't edit. If you are looking to add more spheres, perhaps the time is ripe for me to look into that again. I'll have to figure out which spheres on my map that exist on yours already, or have effective equivalents (such as your original illithid spheres). Most of the original spheres on my map are not detailed at all other than to say what important feature it has - but still, spheres I felt should exist for a variety of reasons (such as the necessity of having "beholder-dominated" or "illithid-dominated" spheres... after all, these guys had to come from somewhere). Are you still interested in something like that? What sort of timeline are you looking at for working on and completing your revision? BTW, could you send me a copy of your spreadsheet? Send it to "maldin" at the canonfire.dot.com, however remove the obvious .dot.

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by nerik » Mon May 16, 2011 9:53 am

Thank you, I'm glad you like the map. Yes, I'd be interested in incorporating your map details.
Maldin wrote:Most of the original spheres on my map are not detailed at all other than to say what important feature it has
Pretty much the same with me.
I'm not sure as to timeline - I'm working on it when I have time.
I'll send you a copy of the spreadsheet when I get home tonight.

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by Chimpman » Mon May 16, 2011 5:25 pm

Hey Nerik!

First I can't seem to get to your map. I'm guessing that I'll have to log into the cartographer forums in order to see it, but don't have the time to go through that process at the moment.

Secondly, I created a "Mystaran Cluster" of spheres a while back (some of which can be found here: http://www.pandius.com/cryspher.html) and including Pillarspace. The way I envision it, those spheres would be connected to the Known Spheres by a minimum number of rivers at the edge of Known Space. At one point I had a mini map positioning those spheres which I'll get back to working on at some point.

Anyway, I'll try an comment more once I get a good look at your map.
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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by nerik » Mon May 16, 2011 6:54 pm

Chimpman wrote:Hey Nerik!

First I can't seem to get to your map. I'm guessing that I'll have to log into the cartographer forums in order to see it, but don't have the time to go through that process at the moment.
There is an older version on Beyond the Moons, IIRC the only change was the addition of a title.
Chimpman wrote:Secondly, I created a "Mystaran Cluster" of spheres a while back (some of which can be found here: http://www.pandius.com/cryspher.html) and including Pillarspace. The way I envision it, those spheres would be connected to the Known Spheres by a minimum number of rivers at the edge of Known Space. At one point I had a mini map positioning those spheres which I'll get back to working on at some point.
Yes, I've found those, nice work, some very interesting ideas on sphere design.
Chimpman wrote:Anyway, I'll try an comment more once I get a good look at your map.
I look forward to it.

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by blackdaggr » Tue May 17, 2011 1:46 pm

If you're adding the Gatespace cluster to your maps, I put Gatespace on a two-way flow river that connects to Pirtelspace (I used the Arcane Inner Flow in my campaign). The satellite spheres were mapped around Gatespace, connected to it and the adjacent satellites.

Beyond Gatespace on the river, I had two more spheres that I have not formally published yet. The first is called Astralspace (I'm not sure if anyone else has used that one), which I will try to post in the near future. The second is called Ringspace - again I will try to post information in the near future.

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by nerik » Tue May 17, 2011 7:22 pm

blackdaggr wrote:If you're adding the Gatespace cluster to your maps, I put Gatespace on a two-way flow river that connects to Pirtelspace (I used the Arcane Inner Flow in my campaign). The satellite spheres were mapped around Gatespace, connected to it and the adjacent satellites.

Beyond Gatespace on the river, I had two more spheres that I have not formally published yet. The first is called Astralspace (I'm not sure if anyone else has used that one), which I will try to post in the near future. The second is called Ringspace - again I will try to post information in the near future.
Ok, thanks for that, I'll put them in - I've found no other references to 'Astralspace', while there is an existing 'Ringspace' (or at least a very brief outline of it) designed by 'Rovion' - it contains the ring-world of Nivel from Practical Planetology (and that's pretty all I know about it).

A couple of questions:
Does your flow river from Pirtel to Gatespace flow inside or outside the Arcane Inner Flow?
How big are your spheres?

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by blackdaggr » Tue May 17, 2011 8:53 pm

nerik wrote:
blackdaggr wrote:If you're adding the Gatespace cluster to your maps, I put Gatespace on a two-way flow river that connects to Pirtelspace (I used the Arcane Inner Flow in my campaign). The satellite spheres were mapped around Gatespace, connected to it and the adjacent satellites.

Beyond Gatespace on the river, I had two more spheres that I have not formally published yet. The first is called Astralspace (I'm not sure if anyone else has used that one), which I will try to post in the near future. The second is called Ringspace - again I will try to post information in the near future.
Ok, thanks for that, I'll put them in - I've found no other references to 'Astralspace', while there is an existing 'Ringspace' (or at least a very brief outline of it) designed by 'Rovion' - it contains the ring-world of Nivel from Practical Planetology (and that's pretty all I know about it).

A couple of questions:
Does your flow river from Pirtel to Gatespace flow inside or outside the Arcane Inner Flow?
How big are your spheres?
As I mentioned originally, I placed Gatespace on the Arcane Inner Flow, but whatever works the best. The Gatespace cluster spheres are described in more detail (including planets and their orbits, and therefore sphere size) at http://ganae.com/DnD/Wildspace/Worlds.html (Gatespace, Splitspace, Windyspace, Chitinspace, Chromaspace, and Shamblespace).

I will try to come up with a different name for what I'd been calling Ringspace. Can you provide a link to Rovion's work? I don't want to create any duplicate ideas. Actually, send me the spreadsheet you've developed (email it to my user name at-aol.com).

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by nerik » Tue May 17, 2011 11:43 pm

blackdaggr wrote:As I mentioned originally, I placed Gatespace on the Arcane Inner Flow, but whatever works the best. The Gatespace cluster spheres are described in more detail (including planets and their orbits, and therefore sphere size) at http://ganae.com/DnD/Wildspace/Worlds.html (Gatespace, Splitspace, Windyspace, Chitinspace, Chromaspace, and Shamblespace).
Nice work, well-detailed and interesting set of spheres, thanks.
blackdaggr wrote:I will try to come up with a different name for what I'd been calling Ringspace. Can you provide a link to Rovion's work? I don't want to create any duplicate ideas. Actually, send me the spreadsheet you've developed (email it to my user name at-aol.com).
Rovion's ringspace is listed here, and that is the only information I have been able to find so far (if you looks at the site I linked to there a lot of spheres with rather sparse details.

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by Big Mac » Wed May 18, 2011 12:21 pm

Chimpman wrote:Hey Nerik!

First I can't seem to get to your map. I'm guessing that I'll have to log into the cartographer forums in order to see it, but don't have the time to go through that process at the moment.
Feel free to put a copy of this (and any other) map onto the Spelljammer Image Group on Flickr. (That will also automatically generate a number of reduced sizes that you can use as forum thumbnail images.) :mrgreen:
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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by Big Mac » Wed May 18, 2011 12:29 pm

nerik wrote:The revised map will be in two forms:
A 'GM's' map showing all spheres & flow rivers
A 'players' map which will resemble a chart PCs could actually obtain with 'unknown' features removed.
Sounds like a good plan.

Perhaps you could talk to the lady that runs the Atlas of the Flanaess project and find out how she can make PDF maps with switchable layers. That would allow you to have one map, where the GM could turn off the "unknown" features, or maybe just turn off the names of the "unknown spheres".
nerik wrote:To poulate it, I went searching for as many fan-created spheres as I could find, as well as the quite detailed sphere descriptions on Beyond the Moons, I found extensive, but rather less detailed lists,
here and here
Although these give brief info on planet sizes and compositions they don't give other details, such as orbit sizes (vital if you want to know how big a sphere is).
In total, I've found 216 canon and fanon spheres (I've assembled a spreadsheet detailing them, if anyone wants it, just ask.)
IMHO there are a rather too many spheres with a large spherical fire body called 'sun' in the centre :P
I had a collection of information threads for listing spheres that were canon (i.e. Krynnspace), canon-inspired-fanon (i.e. Shardspace) and fanon, but I didn't get far with them. I'll have to get back to them at some point.
nerik wrote:Finally, if any of the authors of any of the spheres in this thread have any requests as to placement of their creations, I'll try and accomodate them.
Celenaresspace is supposed to be the centre of an empire of elves, which sprung up prior to the First Unhuman War. The elves in the sphere are trying to keep a low profile, so it could be made to be a sphere that is not well known to humans (i.e. you could put it off of the side of the "core" map, outside what humans call "The Known Spheres").
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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by nerik » Wed May 18, 2011 2:44 pm

Big Mac wrote:Sounds like a good plan.
Thanks!
Big Mac wrote:Perhaps you could talk to the lady that runs the Atlas of the Flanaess project and find out how she can make PDF maps with switchable layers. That would allow you to have one map, where the GM could turn off the "unknown" features, or maybe just turn off the names of the "unknown spheres".
Thats a good idea, although I think it will be a slightly longer term plan.
Big Mac wrote:Celenaresspace is supposed to be the centre of an empire of elves, which sprung up prior to the First Unhuman War. The elves in the sphere are trying to keep a low profile, so it could be made to be a sphere that is not well known to humans (i.e. you could put it off of the side of the "core" map, outside what humans call "The Known Spheres").
Ok, thanks! I'm considering putting it in/near a cluster of elf-dominated spheres such as Darnannonspace and Korvspace (from Dungeon/Polyhedron). On a related note, my current plan is to populate most of the Arcane Inner Flow with spheres from Dragon, Dungeon, or Polyhedron (where appropriate).

Oh, and I've since found even more spheres online! :shock:

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by Death_Jester » Wed May 18, 2011 3:09 pm

Nerik you are a mad genius buddy. This is a truely inspired work and you should be applauded. Well done.
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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by AuldDragon » Wed May 18, 2011 3:50 pm

nerik wrote:Finally, if any of the authors of any of the spheres in this thread have any requests as to placement of their creations, I'll try and accomodate them.
As I envisioned it, Ankispace recently moved into a stable position just off the Arcane Inner Flow (and possibly into the Arcane Outer Flow) within the past few decades. It will have an eventual connection to another sphere that I haven't yet created or named, but will be related to the Egyptian pantheon. It was recently rediscovered by the Arcane.

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by nerik » Wed May 18, 2011 4:50 pm

Death_Jester wrote:Nerik you are a mad genius buddy. This is a truely inspired work and you should be applauded. Well done.
Thanks!

Although I think I spent a bit to much time last night adjusting the location of the spheres mentioned into the Cloakmaster Cycle to better match the books, and realising that Teldin was almost going round in circles over the course of the books! :roll:

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by nerik » Wed May 18, 2011 4:56 pm

AuldDragon wrote:As I envisioned it, Ankispace recently moved into a stable position just off the Arcane Inner Flow (and possibly into the Arcane Outer Flow) within the past few decades. It will have an eventual connection to another sphere that I haven't yet created or named, but will be related to the Egyptian pantheon. It was recently rediscovered by the Arcane.

Jeff
Well, I did find an Egyptian-themed sphere in the 'Lost Worlds' section of Beyond the Moons. It even had a 3D map done in VRML.

On a tangent, is VRML still used for much? I think I've just had another mad idea? :o

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by night_druid » Wed May 18, 2011 5:00 pm

nerik wrote:Well, I did find an Egyptian-themed sphere in the 'Lost Worlds' section of Beyond the Moons. It even had a 3D map done in VRML.
There's actually two. Nilespace is a bit more developed, but there's also Almuttie (or somesuch thing; I can't find it atm) that was devoted entirely to Ptah. It was from the original SJ netbooks from 20 years ago.
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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by AuldDragon » Wed May 18, 2011 10:52 pm

nerik wrote:Well, I did find an Egyptian-themed sphere in the 'Lost Worlds' section of Beyond the Moons. It even had a 3D map done in VRML.
I knew of that one, but I have specific ideas that are not compatible with existing Egyptian spheres. :) It will have a story connection to Ankispace.

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by blackdaggr » Thu May 19, 2011 1:06 pm

nerik wrote: On a tangent, is VRML still used for much? I think I've just had another mad idea? :o
Its been dead for over 10 years. I used to use it extensively (at work).

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by Silverblade-T-E » Mon May 23, 2011 1:12 pm

"That's a lot of spheres!"
Last words of Baddun Ballchewer, in the "Males only Nude Sauna", Rock of Bral


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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by nerik » Mon May 23, 2011 7:55 pm

Ok, current count:

266 spheres, although some are duplicates (two or more different fan-made versions of an undetailed canon sphere)

containing more than

1076 worlds (I haven't counted all those in Astromundi, for example).

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by Maldin » Tue May 24, 2011 1:37 am

Big Mac wrote:Perhaps you could talk to the lady that runs the Atlas of the Flanaess project and find out how she can make PDF maps with switchable layers. That would allow you to have one map, where the GM could turn off the "unknown" features, or maybe just turn off the names of the "unknown spheres".
You mean Anna?
If you've downloaded my Greyhawk's Underdark pdf, you'll know that I too can put together pretty snazzy layered pdfs. ;) I'd love to do the same to nerik's sphere map.
I've fallen behind on this thread, but I'll catch up soon with more thoughts.
nerik wrote:Ok, current count:
266 spheres, although some are duplicates (two or more different fan-made versions of an undetailed canon sphere)
And I still haven't had a chance to send nerik my stuff! ;)

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by blackdaggr » Tue May 24, 2011 1:11 pm

I will be posting the initial writeup of Astralspace and Gossamerspace (formerly my Ringspace) hopefully on Friday. These should be arranged on a two-way river in the following arrangement:

Pirtelspace - Gatespace Cluster - Astralspace - Gossamerspace ----

They'll go up for comment on my website.

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by nerik » Tue May 24, 2011 3:24 pm

I look forward to seeing this, thanks!

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Re: [Mapping] That's a lot of Spheres!

Post by Azaghal » Thu May 26, 2011 12:35 am

Love seeing how this is progressing.
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