Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

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Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Big Mac » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:52 pm

It's a move I've been wanting to happen ever since DriveThru RPG/RPG Now started doing Print on Demand publishing...and then got the rights to sell all out of print D&D products on their DMs Guild store.

Finally the two things have come together. Print on Demand production of out of print D&D products has started! :o :shock: :) :D :mrgreen: :cool:

The new move means that fans of out of print D&D products...or newbie fans who discover older product lines and who want to buy into them are no longer going to be at the mercy of eBay bandits who are hiking up prices. :D

The launch has been sneaked out, and there are already a lot of Dungeons & Dragons products that have been converted into PoD format on DMs Guild.

The first campaign settings to come back include:

But don't forget that there are still second-hand (and new) copies of some of these books out there. The Book-House on The Piazza check both the prices of the original books (via Amazon in the USA, Canada and the UK) and the brand new Print on Demand versions, as every article about every D&D product up there has links to three Amazon stores and the three storefronts that all sell the same PDF/PoD versions of D&D Classics.

You can also help support The Piazza (at no cost to yourselves) if you buy via the Book-House links, as both Amazon and DMs Guild/RPG New/DriveThru RPG pay The Piazza a smalll micropayment for every body who surfs over and buys a product.

I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I've always thought that certain campaign settings, like Mystara, were "out of my reach" because the "collectors" and "eBay bandits" had pushed up the price beyond what I could pay.

This PoD thing is a revolution to me. It means that I might be able to afford things I've never ever been able to own. :cool:

What D&D products did you miss buying (and then regret not buying later)?
Last edited by Big Mac on Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Tim Baker » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:58 pm

That's great news! What POD product will folks buy first? I'd love to see pics of the printing quality once they start to arrive.
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Angel Tarragon » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:25 pm

I posted about this earlier in The Wishing Well. This is awesome indeed.

I really hope this going to force price gougers to make it less worth their while to sell at exorbitant costs secondhand.
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Havard » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:16 pm

Wow! This is FANTASTIC NEWS! :)


Looking forward to seeing this list expand. I see a few items that I really want from the current list as well. :)

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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Yaztromo » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:56 pm

Print of demand is reviving a lot of great productions! :D
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Tim Baker » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:07 am

Angel Tarragon wrote:I posted about this earlier in The Wishing Well. This is awesome indeed.

I really hope this going to force price gougers to make it less worth their while to sell at exorbitant costs secondhand.

Admins, is there any way to merge this thread with viewtopic.php?f=48&t=16830?
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Collectors' Notes

Postby ExTSR » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:23 am

::auctioneer hat:: :ugeek:

imnsho:

Prices of average-grade modules & accessories will decrease. Actual vintage pieces will be much more affordable.
Items in Exc or better condition, esp. in (mfr) Shrink, will increase. Greater visibility increases demand.

Special category: Browns & Whites* will continue to increase, with sub-level fights in the market (often for specific printings).

* original D&D boxed sets in 1st-3rd (Brown woodgrain box), 4th-5th (White box but no red 'Collectors' Edition' on cover), or 6th+ printings (White box with red 'Original Collectors' Edition', aka "OCE"). All US only.
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby RichGreen » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:11 pm

Very exciting! Do we know how they will handle poster maps?
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Big Mac » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:28 pm

Tim Baker wrote:
Angel Tarragon wrote:I posted about this earlier in The Wishing Well. This is awesome indeed.

I really hope this going to force price gougers to make it less worth their while to sell at exorbitant costs secondhand.

Admins, is there any way to merge this thread with viewtopic.php?f=48&t=16830?


Technically, yes there is, but this topic has been syndicated onto social media and I don't want to risk breaking the links. :)
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Re: Collectors' Notes

Postby True_Atlantean » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:45 pm

ExTSR wrote:::auctioneer hat:: :ugeek:

imnsho:

Prices of average-grade modules & accessories will decrease. Actual vintage pieces will be much more affordable.
Items in Exc or better condition, esp. in (mfr) Shrink, will increase. Greater visibility increases demand.

Special category: Browns & Whites* will continue to increase, with sub-level fights in the market (often for specific printings).

* original D&D boxed sets in 1st-3rd (Brown woodgrain box), 4th-5th (White box but no red 'Collectors' Edition' on cover), or 6th+ printings (White box with red 'Original Collectors' Edition', aka "OCE"). All US only.


I can only speak from the perspective of dealing with PoD over the last four or five years with classic World of Darkness books. Onyx Path (the new White Wolf) made a lot of the back catalogue available as PoD, which meant that items like the Revised Clan Books were now eminently affordable. Also, the printing company had significantly improved their processes, although the books aren't 'full bleed' printing, so there are noticeable differences. However, I do own PoD products and they are extremely high quality (these were through Drivethrurpg).
However, over that time, I've continued to add original printings to my shelf as well. There has been no appreciable difference in eBay prices, nor from other second-hand booksellers. Their prices have remained stable. The basic argument is still 'Sure you can go and print one now, or you can have an original'. No matter what happens it appears that there is still a 'justification' :roll: for keeping prices high.

I'd be really happy though, if D&D is different. I'd get PoD modules, Planescape, and Dragonlance. I'd love to see them tackle Dark Sun (given the format of their books) and that would actually give me the push to buy a few more items. Monstrous Compendium sheets would also be awesome as PoD.

Thanks for sharing the news; this is really exciting.
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Havard » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:50 pm

RichGreen wrote:Very exciting! Do we know how they will handle poster maps?


I just ordered the Hollow World Softcover. While we will have to see untill I get the book in the mail, there might be a clue in the PDF version that I included as part of my order. That PDF has the maps chopped up and presented as pages (although in a separate document). I found this pretty disappointing from a PDF, but I think it might mean that the maps are simply thrown into the books as pages. I hope that is not the case, but it might well be.

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Re: Collectors' Notes

Postby Big Mac » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:55 pm

ExTSR wrote:::auctioneer hat:: :ugeek:

imnsho:

Prices of average-grade modules & accessories will decrease. Actual vintage pieces will be much more affordable.
Items in Exc or better condition, esp. in (mfr) Shrink, will increase. Greater visibility increases demand.


That sounds about right.

The eBay bandits have hoarded copies and tried to push up prices by releasing them slowly, but collectors only want high quality items and fans that just want "play copies" will go for the cheapest option.

One thing that is interesting is that at least one of the PoD products that has been put up was cheaper than a second hand copy on Amazon (according to the gizmo that Ashtagon put on the Book-House on The Piazza). I usually check the Book-House and then go see if I can get a cheaper deal elsewhere.

The PoD option is going to give me another thing to check. And I think it will be a stable baseline that won't move (like the Amazon price does).

As far as collectors go, I think that some completists will buy a PoD version, just to have "one of everything", while other completists will "reject" PoD copies as being "worthless". PoD doesn't have a "print run" so a PoD product might sell a million copies, might be the only one sold or might not actually ever get printed. I can't see collectors being able to work out a rarity (and therefore a value).

I also predict that some people are going to buy a PoD copy and then go on eBay to try to pass it off as being the same as the uber-expensive D&D products that are out there.

I hear that Up The Garden Path is a poor quality adventure from the UK that collectors fall over themselves to get (just because it is hard to get). If that ever goes up on DMs Guild, I'd bet good money that somebody tries to resell a copy for more than £50.00 UKP within days.

ExTSR wrote:Special category: Browns & Whites* will continue to increase, with sub-level fights in the market (often for specific printings).

* original D&D boxed sets in 1st-3rd (Brown woodgrain box), 4th-5th (White box but no red 'Collectors' Edition' on cover), or 6th+ printings (White box with red 'Original Collectors' Edition', aka "OCE"). All US only.


That really old stuff, from the era where you were helping to invent D&D is the stuff that really has "value". I think that all versions of D&D are equally valid, but it stands to reason that, as soon as D&D became popular and became a mass produced thing that the larger print runs would make it less valuable.

I actually think that the artists and graphic designers who came along to D&D after that original era made everything look "better" and I much prefer those later products. I also really like the technological improvements that were around by the 3rd Edition Era.

But those old D&D books that were created on a small press basis are probably going to be the only products that go for really big money.

I'm kind of an anti-collector. I don't really want my D&D stuff to be worth a ton of cash. (I don't want it to be "nickable". I just want it to be cool stuff I can enjoy.)

So, as a Spelljammer fan, it will be good to be able to buy dirt-cheap PoD clones of the OD&D products, so that I can see the origins of some of the things that Jeff Grubb and co later incorporated into the Spelljammer Campaign Setting. (And if I dog-ear the books, or loose them, I won't feel like I've lost a priceless artifact. :o )
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Re: Collectors' Notes

Postby ExTSR » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:57 pm

True_Atlantean (re WoD) wrote:There has been no appreciable difference in eBay prices, nor from other second-hand booksellers. Their prices have remained stable. The basic argument is still 'Sure you can go and print one now, or you can have an original'. No matter what happens it appears that there is still a 'justification' :roll: for keeping prices high... I'd be really happy though, if D&D is different.


I think it is different enough. White Wolf had large print runs, but TSR 80s/90s had MegaRuns.

This gives smart Buyers have more ammo. "I can get this new, and cheap, so you have to bend a little to sync with the Market." :)
or something...

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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby The Dark » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:08 pm

For me, the big ones will be the publications in the GAZ and PC series that I don't have. Those tend to go for a lot more than I'm willing to pay on the used market. Heck, I'd probably even buy POD versions of the ones I do have, in order to have copies that are less fragile. I'm not the sort that needs an original first edition printing of a game book, I just need a copy of the book to mine for ideas.
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Big Mac » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:24 pm

RichGreen wrote:Very exciting! Do we know how they will handle poster maps?


As far as I know, they don't.

(Incidentally this is something that has always made me struggle with choosing between the original Council of Wyrms boxed set and the reprinted/repackaged Campaign Option: Council of Wyrms hardback. From what I can tell the hardback is smaller, more robust and has some additional content from Dragon or Dungeon magazine. So from that point of view it is better. But the poser maps have been shrunk down and turned into book pages.)

DMs Guild/Drive Thru RPG/RPG Now really need to get an alternative to Lightning Source that can be used to buy posters and then split these out of boxed sets (and even more modern hardbacks) so people can get hight quality poster maps at full size.

I even think that they should offer a PoD and lamination service on their store. (It's something I think might be of interest to some Parsantium fans too. :) )

Sadly the map market had not quite caught up. (And if they don't get a move on, everyone will be using LCD TVs as digital photo frames instead.)
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Re: Collectors' Notes

Postby Big Mac » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:47 pm

True_Atlantean wrote:I can only speak from the perspective of dealing with PoD over the last four or five years with classic World of Darkness books. Onyx Path (the new White Wolf) made a lot of the back catalogue available as PoD, which meant that items like the Revised Clan Books were now eminently affordable. Also, the printing company had significantly improved their processes, although the books aren't 'full bleed' printing, so there are noticeable differences. However, I do own PoD products and they are extremely high quality (these were through Drivethrurpg).
However, over that time, I've continued to add original printings to my shelf as well. There has been no appreciable difference in eBay prices, nor from other second-hand booksellers. Their prices have remained stable. The basic argument is still 'Sure you can go and print one now, or you can have an original'. No matter what happens it appears that there is still a 'justification' :roll: for keeping prices high.


This reminds me of that nonsense about "the value of comics rising faster than the increase in house prices". :roll:

Sellers are, of course, going to tell you that the original print run versions are of higher value than PoD remakes.

And, in some respects they are correct. But if they are going to play that card, you get to ask if it is still in the original shrink wrap or if it has actually been used. (And can they prove it's the original shrink wrap and not a used copy that has been re-wrapped?)

I just what the "stuff". With the second hand market, other fans are "competing" with me for a finite resource, but with PoD other fans are actually helping to fund the industry that is supplying me with stuff. I don't need to "grab" things before other fans get them. I can wait and buy things on my own schedule.
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Re: Collectors' Notes

Postby Big Mac » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:03 am

ExTSR wrote:
True_Atlantean (re WoD) wrote:There has been no appreciable difference in eBay prices, nor from other second-hand booksellers. Their prices have remained stable. The basic argument is still 'Sure you can go and print one now, or you can have an original'. No matter what happens it appears that there is still a 'justification' :roll: for keeping prices high... I'd be really happy though, if D&D is different.


I think it is different enough. White Wolf had large print runs, but TSR 80s/90s had MegaRuns.

This gives smart Buyers have more ammo. "I can get this new, and cheap, so you have to bend a little to sync with the Market." :)
or something...


You're a good man, Frank. Helping fans with advice and stuff. :)

And, from what I see of you on the Acaeum, you are just as good with the "proper collecting" thing.
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Big Mac » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:11 am

The Dark wrote:For me, the big ones will be the publications in the GAZ and PC series that I don't have. Those tend to go for a lot more than I'm willing to pay on the used market. Heck, I'd probably even buy POD versions of the ones I do have, in order to have copies that are less fragile. I'm not the sort that needs an original first edition printing of a game book, I just need a copy of the book to mine for ideas.


The GAZ products are probably the thing that is going to make it possible to "buy in" to the Mystara setting, and be more than an observer from the sidelines.

I think that the current market for Mystara products is pretty much at the level where it's actually illogical for someone who is not already a fan to gamble an excessive amount of cash at one of the Mystara products.

Lower price PoD reprints are going to allow a lot of people to give Mystara a go and could actually create a new wave of fans. :)
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby night_druid » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:41 am

For me, modules will be a big selling point. Its hard to find AD&D modules in remotely good shape, and those in good shape sell for a FORTUNE. This looks to be a great way to fill out my collection without spending an arm and a leg and still get books in good shape.

Mystara's GAZs always seem to go for insane prices, so this would probably be the only way for me to get into the setting. :)
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Angel Tarragon » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:44 am

Big Mac wrote:The GAZ products are probably the thing that is going to make it possible to "buy in" to the Mystara setting, and be more than an observer from the sidelines.
I am definitely lloking forward to this if and when it happens.
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Re: Collectors' Notes

Postby True_Atlantean » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:53 am

ExTSR wrote:
True_Atlantean (re WoD) wrote:There has been no appreciable difference in eBay prices, nor from other second-hand booksellers. Their prices have remained stable. The basic argument is still 'Sure you can go and print one now, or you can have an original'. No matter what happens it appears that there is still a 'justification' :roll: for keeping prices high... I'd be really happy though, if D&D is different.


I think it is different enough. White Wolf had large print runs, but TSR 80s/90s had MegaRuns.

This gives smart Buyers have more ammo. "I can get this new, and cheap, so you have to bend a little to sync with the Market." :)
or something...

F


I'd also like to think that the D&D brand is far more powerful than White Wolf and there are a lot more people out there who want OOP D&D than OOP World of Darkness.

One of the major problems that is easily overcome with PoD is 'completeness' of a product. I'm tired of looking on eBay or other seller website and then seeing in the fine print 'no box', or 'Monstrous Compendium sheets are photocopies' or 'book two is missing the cover'. Some list these deficiencies in such as manner that it's hard to label their efforts as anything but nefarious.

At least with PoD, I know what I am getting up front, I can trust all the pages are there, and they won't be shipped with insect eggs that can hatch and eat my other books (this happened to a guy in my gaming group).

For years, we've accepted that graphic novels (which are reprints) are just as good on your shelf as single issues (and a darned sight easier to read, store, etc), and it's only a small segment of 'collectors' who doggedly hunt down single issues to acid board and bag, and have graded.

I only see good things out of this move, and ultimately, if it makes these previous editions readily accessible to a new generation of gamers, then all the better.
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby The Dark » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:09 am

Big Mac wrote:
The Dark wrote:For me, the big ones will be the publications in the GAZ and PC series that I don't have. Those tend to go for a lot more than I'm willing to pay on the used market. Heck, I'd probably even buy POD versions of the ones I do have, in order to have copies that are less fragile. I'm not the sort that needs an original first edition printing of a game book, I just need a copy of the book to mine for ideas.


The GAZ products are probably the thing that is going to make it possible to "buy in" to the Mystara setting, and be more than an observer from the sidelines.

I think that the current market for Mystara products is pretty much at the level where it's actually illogical for someone who is not already a fan to gamble an excessive amount of cash at one of the Mystara products.

Lower price PoD reprints are going to allow a lot of people to give Mystara a go and could actually create a new wave of fans. :)
Definitely. I got lucky and found a pair for decent prices at a store when I lived in Florida (GAZ 3 and GAZ 12), and then found GAZ 10 (without Orcwars) in a used book store in Virginia, but other than that, everything's been out of my price range.

On the flip side, I have all of Hollow World except HWA2 (Nightrage), although somehow I've acquired two copies of HWR3 (Milenian Empire). I'm not sure how that happened :? .
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Re: Collectors' Notes

Postby Big Mac » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:12 pm

True_Atlantean wrote:I only see good things out of this move, and ultimately, if it makes these previous editions readily accessible to a new generation of gamers, then all the better.


I think that smashing the concept that the old school stuff is for rich old dudes to buy, stick in a ziplock bag and stick in a safe is essential to continuing the diversity of D&D in forthcoming generations.

I've not played every edition of D&D (I'm happy with 3e to be honest) but if there are people who would prefer something like BECMI, but they can only afford 5e, 4e or 3e, because of supply problems that's going to eventually make people running gaming groups for those rules struggle to support those rules.

If I can knock out something like the Hollow World set and somebody trashes the book, I might be annoyed, but I would be able to ask DMs Guild to knock out another copy. It' wouldn't stop me from playing. :)

I wonder if DMs Guild will ever allow ex-TSR designers to publish material for older D&D rules, via their website.

I'd like to buy a PoD copy of Frank Mentzer's RPGA module: To the Aid of Falx. I'm pretty sure that half of The Piazza would pay for a DMs Guild Kickstarter to get Bruce Heard to knock out some sort of Print on Demand Mystara expansion. :)

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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby gmanv2 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:12 am

Angel Tarragon wrote:I posted about this earlier in The Wishing Well. This is awesome indeed.

I really hope this going to force price gougers to make it less worth their while to sell at exorbitant costs secondhand.


I have secret revenge fantasies about Price Gougers...like calling the IRS and reporting that they are massively under reporting their inventory value so they get massive IRS fines. I dunno if that's a thing, but it should be! :D

I love the PoD concept and will be filling DM's Guild/RPG DriveThru's coffers with my money in the coming months/year.

I have a an astronomical amount of old D&D stuff in pdf, but would love to have hard copies, just not willing to pay the ransom that online sellers demand for our hobbys early products.
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Re: Breaking news: D&D Print on Demand on sale!

Postby Morfie » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:47 am

I've never bought anything physical from DriveThruRPG.. is there a way to find out the shipping costs of the POD?
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