[Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

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[Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:14 am

Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex by Thorf

Image Image Image Image Image Image

Click on the thumbnails to view these maps' pages in the Atlas of Mystara, where you can get the full resolution maps.

If you have any comments, corrections, or suggestions for things to add to the map, please post them here.

Sources: B4 The Lost City (1982), Expert Rules Set (1983), GAZ2 The Emirates of Ylaruam (1987), TM1 The Western Countries (1989), TM2 The Eastern Countries (1989), Rules Cyclopedia (1991), The Jade Hare (1992).

Thanks to: Ashtagon, John Calvin (Chimpman), Havard Faanes, Gecko, Geoff Gander (Seer of Yhog), JoeNotCharles, Sheldon Morris (Hugin), Hervé Musseau (Andaire), Simone Neri (Zendrolion), JTR (OldDawg), Troy Terrell (CmdrCorsiken), Andrew Theisen (Cthulhudrew)
Last edited by Thorf on Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:45 am, edited 16 times in total.
Reason: Rewrote post completely.

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Re: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Cthulhudrew » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:40 am

Placing the Village of Kirkuk

The staging tips suggest that it should be placed ideally somewhere on a caravan track along the Altan Tepes, and that it should be located nearest to where the PCs first enter Ylaruam.

That said, the history of the village itself and the map of it seem to indicate the best location for it is somewhere in the Emirate of Dythestenia, along the northern side of the Altan Tepes there.

To wit: a)The map of Kirkuk places its major street and caravansary on an East-West route. Given the scale of the map, that may not mean all that much, but it would nevertheless seem to me to be a better fit for that big road in the south than elsewhere.

b) The village's history has strong ties with Thyatis, which IMO would make it more likely to be located in the southern part of the country. It was a major enough village that the Thyatians decided to set up there and fortify it (indicating that it must be located along a major route- see point a) above). Additionally, the main Thyatian fort there was destroyed when Al-Kalim retook the village in 829 AC. Al-Kalim's campaigns had him retaking Jaboor from Alphatia in 827, then turning against the Thyatians in 828-830. Again, there is admittedly a lot of time during that period for him to have moved around the country a lot, and the exact campaigns have never been detailed all that much, but it would appear to me that Al-Kalim's tribes were in the southeastern part of the country during the period of 828-830, and thus Kirkuk is most likely somewhere therein.

I'd suggest east of Ctesiphon, perhaps south of Hedjazi (near enough to them both that access to the caverns of Barimoor is not too far distant, as that mage has interests in the village).

There is a southern road out from Kirkuk, and its interesting to speculate where that goes (perhaps a pass through the Altan Tepes to Thyatis- yet another reason why the village had strategic value to them, aside from the East-West route?)
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Re: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by JoeNotCharles » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:32 pm

I'm working on changing the format of all my maps to make them rectangular by including neighbouring countries.
I'd just like to note that the format you've posted here is quite striking, and I hope you keep the versions that follow the borders exactly available as an option.

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by OldDawg » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:28 am

For item number 2, here are the geographic references for Gaz2


THE DESERT
Alasiyan Desert: aka Alasiyan Basin,Great Alasiyan Basin; Altitude Note: Ylaruam at sea level, desert rises several hundred feet towards coast
The Great Salt Basin: a vast desolate salt lake below the Nithian Highlands.
The Valley of Death: a salt basin to the west of Ylaruam [1]; those flats along the southwestern uplands are generally grouped here, too
Empty Quarter: aka Rub Al-Khali; desert expanse from Ylaruam to the coast [1]
Minor unnamed desert south of the Ust-Urt Valley
Awamir Tribe: Kin tribe, Empty Quarter near the Abbashan(i) Oasis
Abbashan Oasis [1]
Ylaruam Oasis [1]

UPLANDS
Uplands: aka Highlands, Upland Plateau; 2-500 feet above basin
Ust-Urt Valley: prairie grassland leading to Rockhome. [1]
The Piedmont: Nicostenian Uplands [1]
The Dead Places: desolate areas in or around the Nithian Highlands,one is the site where Thanatos fell,

POLITICAL
Emirate of Alasiya: in the central Basin; includes Ylaruam, Kuznetz, Deraan, Sulba, Tel al Kebir, Hedjazi [2]
Shellyh: ruling tribe of Kuznetz (p2)
Emirate of Makistan: in the Ust-Urt Valley, includes Parsa, Warqa, Anram, Uruk [2]
Emirate of Nithia: northeastern Emirate, includes: Surra-Man-Raa,Cinsa-Men-Noo [2]
Emirate of Abbashan: portions of the Empty Quarter and the Middle Coast; includes: Abbashan, Fabia, Jaboor [2]
Emirate of Nicostenia: southeastern emirate, includes: Tameronikas, Cubia. [2]
Emirate of Dythestenia: southern highlands, includes: Ctesiphon [2]


VOUCHERY ADMINISTRATIVE PROVINCES [1]
Northern Highlands [1]
Great Salt Basin [1]
Great Alasiyan Basin: used here as synonymous with the Empty Quarter [1]
Valley of Death [1]
Southwestern Highlands [1]
Southeastern Highlands [1]

THE COAST
The North Coast: aka Nithian coastal plain [1]
The Middle Coast: aka Abbashani coastal plain [1]
The Southern Coast: aka Nicostenian coastal plain [1]


KIRKUK
Kirkuk: [Dythestenian] village on well-traveled caravan route
Wahibah Tribe: controls the province of Kirkuk
Ujman, Duru, Humum, and Manahil tribes: summer encampment at Kirkuk


OTHER VILLAGES (non-exhaustive, not placed) [2]
Jauf, Taymor, Tayma, Wahj, Muscat, Dubai, Abu Dabai, Doha, Salwaw, Jubayl, Qaysumah, Nuayriyah, Urayirah, Mubbaraz, Hofuf, Udayliyyah, Haradh, Mishab, Ras al Khafqi, Ras Tannurah, Abu Hadryah, Zilfi, Ghat, Ruywaydah, Shaqra, Diriyah, Dilam, Hillah, Layla, Hariq, Salamiyyah, Artawiyyah, Turayt, Hadithah, Ha'il, Unayzah, Dawadimi, Kasamin, Bishah, Baljurshi, Kahmis Mushayt, Abha, Dirs, Kiyat, Uzan, Lith, Afif, Ulah, Umm Lajj, Duba, Ras al Qasbah, and Haql.


OTHER TRIBES (non-exhaustive, not placed) [3]
Awaliq, Abidah, Amalisah, Asir, Awazim, Anazah, Amarat, Bal-Ubayd, Batahirah, Bayt Kathir, Bayt Yamani, Bani Yas, Buqum, Bani Kab, Bani Hajir, Bani Atiyah, Bani Sakhr, Dayyin, Dahm, Dawasir, Dhafir, Ghamid, Gani Khalid, Harb, Hutaym, Huwaytat, Harasis, Hudhayl, Ifar, Janabah, Juhaynah, Mahrah, Manasir, Murrah, Muntafiq, Nu'aym, Qahtan, Qara, Ruwalah, Rashayidah, Rashid, Shararat, Sulabah, Shammar, Subay, Shihuh, Suhul, Shahran, Sayar, Utaybah, Yam, Yafi, Wayilah, and Zahran.

1 - Ylari Region Chart, Gaz2, p31
2 - Ylari Town and Village Chart, Gaz2, p31
3 - Ylari Tribe Chart, Gaz2 p31

-OldDawg

[Edited for p31 references, more to come]
Last edited by OldDawg on Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Zendrolion » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:27 pm

I'd add two more:

* Dar-el-Tamyya (the village featured in the short adventure "The Jade Hare"); given the presence of humanoid tribes (goblins and orcs mostly), the village should be located in the highlands bordering the Altan Tepes mountains;

Source: Dungeons & Dragons Adventure The Jade Hare, by John Nephew (TSR 9259, 1992, pages 2 and following).

* "Ennaej" region, a tag featured in Caldwell's cover image (it seems to be the area of the south-western highlands south of Makistan - BTW, I wrote a short description of some of its location for an adventure by a friend of mine, months ago).

Source: Cover art by Clyde Caldwell (1987) for GAZ2 The Emirates of Ylaruam by Ken Rolston (TSR 9194, 1987).
Last edited by Zendrolion on Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by OldDawg » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:53 pm

Oh and we should not forget Cynidicea, for which the old Expert map has a recommended site.

I agree about including the Jade Hare location, but I am not sure about using "Ennaej" - its backwards for "Jeanne" and is more an easter egg for Caldwell's circle.

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Havard » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:05 pm

OldDawg wrote:I agree about including the Jade Hare location, but I am not sure about using "Ennaej" - its backwards for "Jeanne" and is more an easter egg for Caldwell's circle.
Nice observation! On the other hand I am not sure that means we should exclude it. After all, the name Ylaruam was created the same way, being a corrupted bacwards version of "Morally". IIRC Frank Mentzer claimed that was how Tom Moldvay came up with the name anyway.

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:55 pm

Wow, this is excellent work all round! What a great help. It's very nice to have so much input. :)

I'm afraid I do have a request, though... It's probably not clear from the lack of notes I've posted so far, but everything added to the maps gets a note explaining the source, with a page number for reference. In the case of a judgement call like for placing Kirkuk, I briefly explain the reasoning too (like what Andrew has done above). So it's great getting lists of stuff to add like this, but we also need to document the sources. As I work through the additions I will write notes, and add them to the first post in the thread, and of course update the maps.

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by OldDawg » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:13 am

So it's great getting lists of stuff to add like this, but we also need to document the sources.
Not a problem. I've done a quick edit above. As I have Gaz2 with me at the current, I can fact check a bit more thoroughly later.
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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Zendrolion » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:34 am

Thorf wrote:So it's great getting lists of stuff to add like this, but we also need to document the sources.
I've edited my post with sources too.
BTW, I think "Ennaej" tag could be used freely, as Mystara if FULL of "Easter eggs" like this (think about the Companion Set adventure in which Count Niles Douglass is featured... :D ).
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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:57 am

Wonderful! Thanks very much. :D I'll update the map, and let you know when I've reposted it. I'm working on quite a few maps right now, so please don't be discouraged if it takes a while - I will get to it before too long. 8-)

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:04 pm

Update: I made a few corrections to the replica maps and redid the palette of the original colours replica.

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:05 pm

I'm going to add a regional label to the map - a large one covering the whole desert. The question is, what label would be best? There are so many names for the region that I'm a bit confused. The possible candidates include:
  • Alasiyan Desert
  • Alasiyan Desert Basin
  • Great Alasiyan Basin
  • The Empty Quarter
  • Rub Al-Khali
Alasiyan Desert seems to be the easiest, and would probably look best on the map, but it would be nice to be able to use the other labels too. Are they indeed all the same? Does the Basin refer to the whole desert?

Rub Al-Khali is the Ylari (and indeed real-world Arabic) for The Empty Quarter, and is taken directly from a real world desert on the Arabian Peninsula. One option would be to put "Rub Al-Khali" as well as "Alasiyan Desert", but considering the size of the caption (I'm thinking big letters) it would be better to have a shorter caption. Rub Al-Khali on its own seems not very good.

Which leads me to my current thinking of just putting "Alasiyan Desert", and leaving all the other names to the map's notes.

Any opinions on this?

Edit: Another question: does the Alasiyan Desert include the highland areas to the north and south? It seems clear that it doesn't contain the non-desert Ust-Urt Valley and the Coastal Plain, but the highland areas definitely include areas of desert and dunes, leading me to wonder if they are included or not.

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:26 pm

I just finished going through OldDawg's excellent list, adding captions to the map and notes to the first post in this thread. I also took Andrew's advice on Kirkuk (and paraphrased part of it in the notes ;) ).

There are quite a few areas of contention that could do with some discussion. I have marked these points in red, so please read the notes and let me know what you think on these issues. To sum up, we have:

The Coastal Plain - do we mark on the escarpment?

Piedmont/Nicostenian Uplands - how should this small area be labelled? Which name should be used, or should we use both names? And should any of these hills be marked as forested?

The Valley of Death - where exactly is it? The description is pretty vague - "west of Ylaruam". Does it come between Ylaruam and Sulba, or is it north or south of Sulba?

Town/village names - the Gazetteer provided an extensive list of extra names to place on the map. It would be nice to place some of these on the map (but not all because there are too many). Does anyone have any preferences for which names go in which emirate, and on village locations?

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:53 pm

Update: I uploaded the latest version of the updated map so you can preview the changes I talked about in the previous few posts here.

By the way, are there any preferences for exact locations for the village of Dar el-Tamyya and the Ennaej label? Simone pretty much summed up all the official info we have to go on. This is your chance if you want me to put them somewhere specific! :)

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Cthulhudrew » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:54 pm

From the cover of Gaz2, it looks to me like Ennaej is right around the Southwestern Highlands region as Simone suggests, though it seems like it might be a bit more directly south of Sulba rather than Makistan per se.

Another thing that occurs to me is that Marudi's lair could possibly be marked at the tip of that rocky strip of desert north of Hedjazi. Maybe something like "Marudi's Palace" or something. Obviously not widely known to Mystarans, but for completist purposes it could be included.
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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:48 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:From the cover of Gaz2, it looks to me like Ennaej is right around the Southwestern Highlands region as Simone suggests, though it seems like it might be a bit more directly south of Sulba rather than Makistan per se.
This makes me wonder... Do we have any idea what Ennaej actually is? Simone, I'd love to see the description you wrote for your friend. There must be something worth naming the region for if it's one of the few places in the Emirates with a name, I think.
Another thing that occurs to me is that Marudi's lair could possibly be marked at the tip of that rocky strip of desert north of Hedjazi. Maybe something like "Marudi's Palace" or something. Obviously not widely known to Mystarans, but for completist purposes it could be included.
I hadn't forgotten this map (in fact it was among the maps I scanned it at Christmas time), but I was planning on doing it as a separate map rather than incorporating it into the main maps. But perhaps you're right - a label such as "Marudi's Palace" or just "Marudi's Lair" (in order to make it clearer it's a monster lair) might be good. This does pry open the pandora's box of monster mapping a little more, though. Currently only a few monsters get marked on maps - mostly humanoid populations - and there is no specific symbol to use for a monster's lair. Of course we can use existing symbols for some lairs, and in this particular case a palace symbol would fit quite well, but that will not always be the case:

Amanth's Lair - on Mt Amador, 200 miles north of Glantri City. Could be marked with a cave symbol - perhaps a single cave marked in black (as opposed to the usual mountain or hill-coloured cave symbols).

Ambur's Lair - in the ruins of Jhyrrad. No extra symbol necessary, though Jhyrrad's captions will get a bit crowded as a result.

Argos' Lair - a cave in the Dymrak Forest on the Rugalov River/at the Lake of Lost Dreams. Cave symbol mentioned above?

Attura's Lair - another cave, this time in the Atruaghin Clans.

Azem's Lair - a cottage in Wereskalot. Same problem as with Ambur and Jhyrrad.

Druuwor's Lair - ancient fortress south of Rhoona. Fortress symbol.

Jargnir's Lair - in the western part of Soderfjord's Great Marsh, "below the muck". This is problematic - perhaps no symbol is the best answer here.

Khanistar's Lair - on the World Mountain. Again, same problem as Ambur and Azem.

Thalkor's Lair - an ancient giant ship in the middle of the Malpheggi Swamp. Shipwreck symbol - on land??

Thundar's Lair - underwater, in a crater, and the lair itself is the fossilised remains of a kraken. Presumably this one would be marked on the Undersea map, though what symbol to use I'm not sure. It could be generalised to a Castle symbol, perhaps...?

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by CmdrCorsiken » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:14 am

Would Cynidecia be considered for addition as well? A 'ruin' symbol would be the obvious choice. I haven't seen any discussion on its location, though I'm sure that such discussion has occurred.
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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:58 am

CmdrCorsiken wrote:Would Cynidecia be considered for addition as well? A 'ruin' symbol would be the obvious choice. I haven't seen any discussion on its location, though I'm sure that such discussion has occurred.
Yep! OldDawg mentioned it earlier in this thread - but thanks for the reminder. :)

The question is, exactly where do we put it? The B4 location was marked on the 1983 Expert Set map, so we have the general location. It appears to be on a trail on that map, but I would advocate for placing it one hex to the north or south of that trail so as to put it slightly out of the way. (This kind of change is perfectly acceptable when converting from 24 to 8 mile per hex scales.)

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:35 am

Image

I think this is where the 24 mile hex falls on the map. (I may be off by a hex, because lining up the maps for the Known World is actually quite tricky - they managed to introduce a one hex error for some of the 8 mile per hex maps, and you have to choose where the error falls and stick with it. Anyway it's definitely in this area; the other possible location is one 8 mile hex to the southeast.)

Any preferences for placement? I'm thinking the top right hex, due east of Parsa (right above the "a" of "Cynidicea").

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by CmdrCorsiken » Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:12 pm

Thorf wrote:Any preferences for placement? I'm thinking the top right hex, due east of Parsa (right above the "a" of "Cynidicea").
I like that location, too. It's not far from where I used it when I ran the module a few years ago.
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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Cthulhudrew » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:33 am

According to B4, the adventurers stumble upon Cynidicea several days after getting lost on a caravan trail and heading east in the general direction of the caravan. I'd be inclined to put it either where you suggest, or possibly in the hex to the left of the big "A" in Alasiyan Desert.
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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Ashtagon » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:16 am

If they were heading east in the general direction of the caravan trail when they find Cynidicea, wouldn't they have to be somewhere to the west of the caravan trail?
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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Zendrolion » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:34 pm

Thorf wrote:This makes me wonder... Do we have any idea what Ennaej actually is? Simone, I'd love to see the description you wrote for your friend. There must be something worth naming the region for if it's one of the few places in the Emirates with a name, I think.
Well, the description is (obviously) in Italian; it mostly details the Makistan-Darokin border and the upland areas south of Parsa. I'll try to translate the essential of it and send it to you ASAP. ;)
Anyway, Andrew is right: on GAZ2's cover the tag "Ennaej" appears to be south of Sulba. I used the tag in my description, basically "stretching" it westward. This way we could have more or less the whole "Southwestern Highlands" area labeled "Ennaej" in alasiyan.
This does pry open the pandora's box of monster mapping a little more, though. Currently only a few monsters get marked on maps - mostly humanoid populations - and there is no specific symbol to use for a monster's lair.
While I like the idea to mark known monster lairs, I think some areas of the maps would risk to become overcrowded. Think about the Dymrak Forest: you'll have at least three known goblin lairs, and Argos' cave on the Rugalov's banks. The best thing IMHO would be doing a separate map of each region, without any other label but those indicating monster lairs. This way they wouldn't appear on the "public" map (even if the problem still arises for areas like Cynidicea).

About Dar-el-Tamyya, from The Jade Hare we know that Al-Kalim himself visited the village to teach the inhabitants his religion of the Eternal Truth. I don't think the village should be found in total wilderness, neither too near civilized areas (if any in Dythestenia... ). I'd place it in one of the hill hexes adjacent to the Altan Tepes mountains north of Halathius or the Imperial Territories (those between Halathius and Buhrohur); another likely location could be three or four hexes north-west of Ctesiphon, just over Dythestenia's border with the Southwestern Highlands.
There are quite a few areas of contention that could do with some discussion. I have marked these points in red, so please read the notes and let me know what you think on these issues. To sum up, we have:

The Coastal Plain - do we mark on the escarpment?
IMO no.
Piedmont/Nicostenian Uplands - how should this small area be labelled? Which name should be used, or should we use both names? And should any of these hills be marked as forested?
Forests - not on the 8-m map. I'd rather use Piedmont, however. Nevertheless, becouse as you suggest the name has likely a Thyatian origin, it could even be that currently it's disregarded in favor of a new, Alasiyan name, which roughly translates into "Nicostenian Uplands" (BTW, we should then explain why names like Dythestenia and Nicostenia kept their place... ).
The Valley of Death - where exactly is it? The description is pretty vague - "west of Ylaruam". Does it come between Ylaruam and Sulba, or is it north or south of Sulba?
IMO it would have more sense if it was one of the two areas of rocky desert found north and south of Sulba; after all they're more or less "west of Ylaruam". Northern one seems more likely to me.
Town/village names - the Gazetteer provided an extensive list of extra names to place on the map. It would be nice to place some of these on the map (but not all because there are too many). Does anyone have any preferences for which names go in which emirate, and on village locations?
Overall, I use to divide Ylaruam into there cultural areas with references to RW cultures:

Abbashan = Iraq
Alasiya = Arabia proper (the whole peninsula, mostly the Saudi area)
Dythestenia & Nicostenia = Syria, Jordan, and south-eastern Turkey (former Thyatian = Byzanthine lands)
Makistan = northern Iran, west or east of Caspian Sea (areas influenced by Ethengarian = Mongol/steppe-peoples culture)
Nithia = Iran (becouse of former Alphatian = Persian dominion; Nithian culture has been annihilated, so it shouldn't have had any cultural leftover on following peoples)

However, almost all GAZ2's random village names are Arabic in origin (most are from Saudi Arabia, some others from United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Oman, and Yemen), while a few are Iraqi (one has an Indian origin, Ghar). Thus it's impossible to place them according to their ethnic origin - unless one places all of them in Alasiya. Therefore I'd say there's not any preference about which village to place and where.

About Cynidicea:
Any preferences for placement? I'm thinking the top right hex, due east of Parsa (right above the "a" of "Cynidicea").
That, or the opposite hex - the one under the 'C' of Cynidicea.
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causes of their victories and defeats, so as to avoid the defeats and imitate the victories" N. Machiavelli, The Prince, XIV, 5

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Andaire » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:58 pm

Zendrolion wrote:Makistan = northern Iran, west or east of Caspian Sea (areas influenced by Ethengarian = Mongol/steppe-peoples culture)
Like the Timurid, and later Mughal?
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