[Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Zendrolion »

Chimpman wrote:I'd prefer to add as much detail as possible to an Updated map (without overloading it), regardless of whether or not that detail was on the original. Thorf has created Originals as well Updated versions so I don't feel like we are loosing anything by modifying the updated version. As long as there are references that support those changes, the map should still be considered "official". The thing to keep in mind is that when these were originally done, they were created on a timeline and strict budget. The original authors didn't have time to get it perfect... just enough time to get it to be "good enough." Details will suffer for this. But as a community we can spend all the time and effort that we want on these projects, so I don't see adding more details as taking anything away from the map's officialness. ...And I know you said this half in jest, but I wouldn't be averse to adding badlands or broken lands hexes around Nithia either... ;)
Understand me, I'm not saying that adding the forested hill hexes in Piedmont is the ultimate evil. :D

I'm only saying that, if we're to respect strictly (and that could not necessarily what we want to do) the canonic informations extrapolated from maps and/or modules, we should accept that in this single case the map's implication is that those Nicostenian woods should cover less than half each 8-m hex on the GAZ2 map.

Obviously, as Thorf said above, there are a lot of cases in which maps don't match the descriptions given in the GAZs - Karameikos' hills being the most evident example. In that case, an update of the map is mandatory; but in Piedmont's one, is it really? Or can we just explain Ylaruam's source of lumber as many small separated patches of woods, each of whom isn't large enough to fill an 8-m hex?

By the way, if Thorf decides to keep the forested hill hexes, I'd rather use the alternative Chipman suggested 8-) :
How would it look if we had 4 or 5 forested hill hexes interspersed with the normal hill hex. That would still give the visual cue that there are trees here, but may also imply that they are sparsely populated? I'm trying to think "what would I do if I were going to take that area and create a 1mi/hex map?" If I saw all those forested hills hexes together I would probably just create one big lump of forested hexes. However if I saw forested hills hexes interspersed with normal hills I might start to think, "Hey, why did they do that? This must not be a single large area covered by forested hills."
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Re: Outer World: Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog »

Love the map - much better than the original!

Now then...let's get the history of Ennaej worked out... :geek:
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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf »

I just posted the finished updated map over at the Atlas of Mystara.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread! The map is far better for it. :D

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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by fabriziohockey »

Hello,

First, I must thank Thorfinn for his generosity, the biggest work of mapping Mystara and ... for giving me this chance to modify it. :oops:

Second, my 0,01 euros :)

I modified Thorfinn Ylaruam's 8 miles map in this way:
1) I added human's population levels:
- (green = settled;
- yellow = borderlands;
- light blue = wilderness;
- other colours = no human population (but … what about monsters?? :evil: ).
2) I created n. 2 vassals of Alasiya and n. 1 vassal of Nicostenia (bordered in red and withe): Alasiya and Nicostenia resource's income are really huge, so them have to create vassals or lose a part (more than 15.000 gp/month "resource's" income, according Rules Cyclopedia dominion's economic);
3) even Nithia needs its vassal (Cinsa Men Noo), but due to the significant differences between the coastal part and the internal area;
4) I added Barimoor's Underground Complex (mapped in Gazetter 2);
5) I added 300 people as Dar El Tamyya population (these 300 people are the difference between 229.700 in Gaz. 2 and 230.000 in PWA1 and TM2);
6) I placed Kirkuk in Makistan Emirate, instead in Dithestenia (*).

Image

(*) About Kirkuk's placement:
- Dithestenia is a really an under-populated Emirate: I think we cannot place here the Kirkuk village (400 people, with other people in surronding area), simply because this Emirate hasn't enough population (and not enough military strenght to protect its territory);
- there are at least 650 nomads living around Kirkuk, plus a group of 130 bandits: too many people (400+650+130 = 1.180) for the under-populated Dithestenia (total population of 7.600);
- Barimoor's Agents strike Kirkuk (this means Kirkuk must be close the "Barimoor's underground complex"; the hills in the middle of Dithestenia aren't);
- Gaz. 2 describes Kirkuk as a city in an hilly region close to the Altan Tepes (there are rains), but it's also very close to the desert;
- placing Kirkuk in Makistan, we meet all the conditions described in the Gazetter 2 (even the presence of the the ruins of the Thyatian fort could be reasonable) and makes the city a "key-place" to keep away the Barimoor's enemies;
- another good placement could be in Nicostenia (the 2nd hex, south/west Cubis) but, again, Cubis seems far from the " Barimoor's underground Complex".

Gazetter 2 indicates the following human population levels (people/sqm):
- coastal plain (settled): 40-70 people/sqm (more in Nithia-Abbashan-Nicostenia biggest cities);
- grassland (settled): 10-20 people/sqm;
- upland (settled): 5-10 people/sqm;
- upland (and every other) "borderlands" hex: 1-5 people/sqm;
- upland/desert (and every other) "wilderness" hex: less than 1 people/sqm;
- desert borderland hex: 30-60/sqm (this is surely wrong: we know borderland hexes cannot have more than 5 people/square mile)
I've added:
- plain (settled): 10-40 people/sqm (or more);
- oasi (settled): 10-20 people/sqm.

We know an 8 miles hex has 55,426 square miles (sqm).

Knowing this, for each Emirate, we can calculate how many people lives in each settled/borderland/wilderness hex.

Note 1: vassals must have enough population to substain their expenses.

Note 2: considering all the Emirates, it's difficult for me only to respect a density of 40-70 people/square mile for settled coastal plains in Nithia and Abbashan; seems I have to reduce the number of settled plains (coastal and not) in these Emirates ...

(as soon as possible I will add Emirates population statistics)
Last edited by fabriziohockey on Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:10 pm, edited 42 times in total.

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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Robin »

fabriziohockey wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:34 pm
Hello,

First, I must thank Thorfinn for his generosity, the biggest work of mapping Mystara and ... for giving me this chance to modify it. :oops:
.............................
Great Information...very useful when I finish Ethengar 1 mile hex map and begin with Ylaruam 1 mile hex map (and Nithia era based on my earlier Nithia 8 mile hex map, and Morgreth era to locate all the former ruins, settlements, features).
One question; in some of the last Threshold Magazines, I believe to remember Sturm had also created Bolderland, wilderness and civilized areas in this very region, Do you intend to use those to mix together?....I would probably)
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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Sturm »

Yes I did, here is the article of Threshold issue 16 http://pandius.com/uknwntm4.html and here are the maps: http://pandius.com/Ylaruam_people.png and http://pandius.com/Ylaruam_wilderlands.png
I described wilderlands regions with the possible population of non-human intelligent creatures.
In general I prefer a rather high density of intelligent creatures.
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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by fabriziohockey »

I saw this map very few time ago, on Pandius, while I was looking for a suitable map for my demographic representation.
Sturm wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:47 am
... http://pandius.com/Ylaruam_wilderlands.png
The demographic informations on which I rely are essentially those of Gazetteer 2, with something from PWA1 and TM2.

In fact, I resumed my old work that I had interrupted in 2007 and I'm happy to see other people with the same old questions: when players go around the world, where are the people? where are the monsters? who controls what? where a player can create his kingdom? and so on ...

(p.s. actually I made similar jobs for Norwold, Karameikos and Glantri; but Ylaruam is the most updated)
Last edited by fabriziohockey on Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Sturm »

Indeed, canon sources are quite lacking on this aspect, so it most depends on each DM's preferences. I like to have my wilderlands quite populated :)
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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by fabriziohockey »

Sturm wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:05 am
I like to have my wilderlands quite populated :)
This is in the spirit of the game: the DM builds his world :D

At the beginning, even I placed some people along the trade road between Chtesiphon and Tameronikas (surely there is someone, but with a really hard life).

I think Ylaruam is really interesting for this reason: is the Kingdom with lesser food and water capacity in the Known World.
If we ask, "how much food is needed for these people to live?", Ylaruam is at the bottom (Dythestenia or Nithia)

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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Sturm »

Sure, nevertheless real world constraints are not necessarily true for fantasy where clerics for example can create food and water...
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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by fabriziohockey »

Sturm wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:58 pm
Sure, nevertheless real world constraints are not necessarily true for fantasy where clerics for example can create food and water...
You are right, but seems we are going away.

In my campaign I thought to give a bonus to the Emirate's food production, due to the clerical power to create food and water.
This doens't mean that clerics can substain "automatically" most or all the population; clerical power helps, but could be not enough … :|
As ex. Abbashan: there, the "clerical power" generates about 10% food (obviously I'm using an Excel file to calculate all).

Another DM could think: "let's calculate how many clerics there are in a Kingdom, with enough power to substain its population!".
I remember there are such rules in D&D 3.0 (DM Book) but, again, we need the "Excel power" :D

And, obviously, another DM could easily say to his players: "don't worry for your 500.000 people in your new wonderful city in the desert! you have clerics!".

But seems Barimoor wins all: "just" a wizard with enough food/water to substain 100-200.000 "followers" hidden in the underground complex ... :o
Last edited by fabriziohockey on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Sturm »

I'd like such calculations, want to share them?
In medieval times, clerical population could be up to 2% of the population, but it depends in fantasy at what levels such clerics are...
Ylaruam could have such a percentage, or nearly so but 8-9th level clerics are not gonna be so many indeed
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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by fabriziohockey »

Hi again,

I changed something on the coast, reducing the civilization levels.
This was necessary due to the demographic levels indicated for the settled coastal plains (40-70 people/sqm).

This is my map (last edited 21th June 2019: creating Kuznetz barony wasn't necessary):
Image

1) Alasiya (58.800):
- plain (settled): 10 hexes, 16.750 pop. (30,22/sqm) + 23.950 in cities/suburban;
- oasi (settled): 7 hexes, 4.900 pop. (12,63/sqm);
- upland (borderland): 1 hex, 200 pop. (3,61/sqm) + 300 in Dar El Tamyya;
- upland (wilderness): 5 hex, 250 pop. (0,90/sqm);
- desert (borderland): 45 hexes, 9.000 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- desert (wilderness): 69 hexes, 3.450 pop. (0,90/sqm).

2) Deraan (10.750):
- plain (settled): 3 hexes, 5.025 pop. (30,22/sqm) + 1.100 in Deraan;
- oasi (settled): 1 hex, 675 pop. (12,18/sqm);
- upland (settled): 3 hexes, 1.200 pop. (7,22/sqm);
- upland (borderland): 4 hexes, 800 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- upland (Wilderness): 7 hexes, 350 pop. (0,90/sqm);
- desert (borderland): 6 hexes, 1.200 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- desert (wilderness): 8 hexes, 400 pop. (0,90/sqm).

3) Hedjazi (8.750):
- plain (settled): 2 hexes, 3.400 pop. (30,67/sqm) + 1.200 in Hedjazi;
- oasi (settled): 2 hexes, 1.400 pop. (12,63/sqm);
- desert (borderland): 10 hexes, 2.000 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- desert (wilderness): 15 hexes, 750 pop. (0,90/sqm).

4) Nicostenia (44.000):
- plain (settled): 4 hexes, 7.700 pop. (34,73/sqm);
- coastal plain (settled): 7 hexes, 24.325 pop. (62,70/sqm) + 4.000 in Tameronikas;
- upland (settled): 15 hexes, 6.375 pop. (7,67/sqm);
- upland (borderland): 6 hexes, 1.350 pop. (4,06/sqm);
- upland (wilderness): 5 hexes, 250 pop. (0,90/sqm).

5) Cubis (21.000):
- plain (settled): 2 hexes, 3.000 pop. (27,06/sqm);
- coastal plain (settled): 6 hexes, 15.450 pop. (46,46/sqm) + 1.000 in Cubis;
- desert (borderland): 6 hexes, 1.200 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- desert (wilderness): 7 hexes, 350 pop. (0,90/sqm).

6) Makistan (31.500):
- grassland (settled): 23 hexes, 18.400 pop. (14,43/sqm) + 6.500 in 4 cities;
- grassland (borderland): 9 hexes, 2.250 pop. (4,51/sqm);
- upland (borderland): 2 hexes, 450 pop. (4,06/sqm);
- upland (wilderness): 8 hexes, 400 pop. (0,90/sqm);
- desert (borderland): 12 hexes, 2.400 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- desert (wilderness): 14 hexes, 700 pop. (0,90/sqm).

7) Abbashan (30.000):
- plain (settled): 6 hexes, 6.150 pop. (18,49/sqm) + 4.300 in Abbashan;
- plain (borderland): 3 hexes, 600 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- coastal plain (settled): 3 hexes, 6.750 pop. (40,59/sqm) + 4.500 in Jaboor and Fabia;
- coastal plain (borderland): 5 hexes, 1.000 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- oasi (settled): 4 hexes, 2.500 pop. (11,28/sqm);
- desert (borderland): 17 hexes, 3.400 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- desert (wilderness): 16 hexes, 800 pop. (0,90/sqm).

8) Nithia (12.600):
- upland (settled): 2 hexes, 900 pop. (8,12/sqm);
- upland (borderland): 4 hexes, 800 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- upland (wilderness): 9 hexes, 450 pop. (0,90/sqm);
- plain (settled): 1 hex, 700 pop. (12,63/sqm);
- plain (borderland): 4 hexes, 800 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- plain (wilderness): 2 hexes, 100 pop. (0,90/sqm);
- coastal plain (settled): 3 hexes, 6.750 pop. (40,59/sqm) + 2.000 in Surra-Man-Raa;
- coastal plain (wilderness): 2 hexes, 100 pop. (0.90/sqm).

9) Cinsa-Men-Noo (5.000):
- upland (borderland): 3 hexes, 600 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- upland (wilderness): 4 hexes, 200 pop. (0,90/sqm);
- desert (borderland): 4 hexes, 800 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- desert (wildernaess): 5 hexes, 250 pop. (0,90/sqm);
- plain (settled): 1 hex, 1.450 pop. (26,16/sqm) + 1.100 in Cinsa-Men-Noo;
- oasi (settled): 1 hex. 600 pop. (10,83/sqm).

10) Dithestenia (7.600):
- upland (settled): 7 hexes, 3.360 pop. (8,66/sqm) + 1.000 in Ctesiphon;
- upland (borderland): 9 hexes, 1.800 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- upland (wilderness): 11 hexes, 550 pop. ( 0,90/sqm);
- desert (borderland): 4 hexes, 800 pop. (3,61/sqm);
- desert (wilderness): 2 hexes, 90 pop. (0,81/sqm).

Total population 230.000 (*)
(*) PWA1 and TM2 indicate the Emirates population in 230.000 people; Gaz. 2 indicates in 229.700 people.
I considered the 300 more as Dar El Tamiyya inhabitants.

GMs that want a larger civilization area, could reduce the density of wild hexes to 0.45/sqm (you will have twice the wilderness hexes); as ex. you may want to assign 0.45 to the wilderness hexes of Dithestenia, in order to distribute some of the population on the trade route hexes (which are now without population).
However, in this way there would be areas with a stable presence (nomads) even 24 miles away in the desert (too much?), as well as involving "very hot points" such as the Barimoor's underground complex. Anyway, it's a GMs choice.

PS 1: I apologize for the many changes in my first post.
PS 2: I would like share calculations on the support of the population when ready (I'm still working on it) and in antoher topic.
Last edited by fabriziohockey on Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:09 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by fabriziohockey »

Sturm wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:53 am
I'd like such calculations, want to share them?
In medieval times, clerical population could be up to 2% of the population, but it depends in fantasy at what levels such clerics are...
Ylaruam could have such a percentage, or nearly so but 8-9th level clerics are not gonna be so many indeed
Ok, my "real work" it's taking more time than I thought … :mrgreen:

But we can agree this: referring to the rules, an "8" HD cleric can create food for 12 people each day (+12 for each level more).

As example: Dhytestenia has 7600 inhabitants
We could also assume at least 2% are clerics (= 152).
We could assume an higher percentage: Ylaruam is a clerical Kingdom

Surely, most of these 152 are low levels; only a few of them will have 8HD or more.

We can calculate Dythestenia has 31 "deputy chaplain" (1/250 inhabitants as described in CM2) and at least 1 chaplain.
We can immagine deputy chaplain are low level clerics; just the chaplain could create food.

So, let's think 1 cleric out of 30 has 8 HD or more: with a 2% rate, Dythestenia will have 5 of such clerics.

This means the clerical power in Dythestenia can create food for only 60 people each day … unfortunately, too few.

Clerical power creates only 10% in my calculations, but I mistaked thinking it so big :oops:
I will remove it … :(

Otherwise, we can think to the Elven Kingdoms, where all the inhabitants are elves.
Here we could apply a bonus ("magic") to the food (animal) production: each inhabitant could use sleep or magic missile to hunt
Last edited by fabriziohockey on Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Sturm »

Personally I would assume a much higher population in Ylaruam, but the calculation still stand about high level clerics, so probably not enough to feed the whole population. Still it improves things, and what could have been in a non clerical nation a devastating famine with thousands of deaths could become a much less devastating famine.
About elves, I'm inclined to think to them as an ancient civilization who probably has developed complex and efficent methods of food production in the forest, and probably hunting is just a minor source of food, carried out more to check excessive populations than as a primary need.
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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by fabriziohockey »

Hi,

I made my "last" modification to my demographic map (and some Emirates populations: Alasiya, Deraan, Hedjaz) in my previous post :oops:
This because I realized that creating Kuznetz barony wasn't necessary :facepalm:

fabriziohockey wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:36 pm
Image


Below I share my Emirates Economics translated to english: please, excuse me for any mistake.
(I didn't translate Alasiya's "5) Official Informations": you can read on the Gazetter. ;) )

01) Alasiya: https://ibb.co/n1DfhFS

02) Deraan: https://ibb.co/Czx7JFs

03) Hedjazi: https://ibb.co/rG53pM2

04) Nicostenia: https://ibb.co/VgWsdDN

05) Cubis: https://ibb.co/4tGTn74

06) Makistan: https://ibb.co/jg1sPQL

07) Abbashan: https://ibb.co/ZKJ8b6C

08) Nithia: https://ibb.co/K0xTs6m

09) Cinsa-Men-Noo: https://ibb.co/ZWxKwPS

10) Dithestenia: https://ibb.co/MfzYnfR

Emirates Informations are taken from Gazetter 2, TM2 and PWA1.
Emirates Economics are based mostly on BECMI-Rules Cyclopedia, but referring to 8 miles hex (instead 24) and with some add on (as ex. Artisans, Merchants and Wealthy families).
All Emirate's "Land" and "Sea" armies are composed as described in PWA1.

The Food Balance is based on rules I wrote, reading several articles (and I'm still working on it); all Emirates, except Nithia, benefit from "Garden in the Desert" technology bonus (+10% crops production): we could immagine clerics helping people to increase cultivations.

Below is my summary for this Country:

Image

Surely you will notice "my" Emirates have complexively more "peace time" troops (Defensive troops of 1,300 + Land army of 5,040 in 14 Divisions + Sea Army of 600 in 10 fleet's Divisions), than indicated in TM2 (2,860 military) or in PWA1 (1,5% of 230,000 inhabitants = 3,450) (*).
This depends on my choice about the 2 HD (and 3 HD) troop's cost: I add + 10 g.p. for a 2HD soldier (and + 20 g.p. for a 3HD soldier) to the base cost (D&D Expert Set).
I think this could be reasonable for low level troops, because I assume a 3 HD sergeant will cost 60 gp/month (following BECMI rules, a sergeant would cost 20/month), and I don't want exceed too much the armie's numbers shown in gazetters and PWAs series (actually, my Ylaruam has twice peacetime military than described in PWA1).
My wish is also that even the poorest emirate (Dithestenia) is able to deploy at least 1 regiment (120 mounted bowman 2HD): to doing so, in Ylaruam has been necessary setting the salt tax at 10% (instead 20%) for Nicostenia, Makistan, Abbashan, Nithia and Dithestenia; otherways some of these Emirates would have any (or very small) army ... and Alasiya would have too big!
I'm testing this system on other countries too, with different Army's type.

I hope you will enjoy this arid and dangerous land ... :evil:

----
(*) I didn't consider informations from the X10 Red Arrow Black Shield, that runs in 1200 a.c. and gives to the Ylaruam's army the following 'wartime' strenght: 14 divisions of 715 personnel, each with a BR of 151 (the expedition army counts 10.010).
Last edited by fabriziohockey on Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by fabriziohockey »

Hi again,

I publish here myDEFINITIVE version of Ylaruam economics (ver. 7.3).
I assure you that I will no longer work on Ylaruam because, by now, my PCs are plagued by constant nightmares themed "sun burning!" and "sandstorms" (...). :o
The next simulation will be Vestland (Gaz. 7): mountains, woods, water and snow!!! :lol:

Compared to my previous post, I changed the management file a lot, I increased the number of vassal fiefdoms (both to represent the differences between the various territories, and to show a more complex feudal system) and I took into account some advice that I was given.
About the latter, in particular, I considered a "minimal" (but sometimes decisive) production of food magically created by clerics (the rules of the game, however stretched, don't allow to feed many people by magic), just as I put areas of stable settlement (some wilderness hexes) on the commercial way between the emirates of Dithestenia and Nicostenia (actually, as described in Atlas 2).

As in my first post, I must thank Thorfinn Tait for the biggest work of mapping Mystara and his generosity, giving the chance to modify it.

My attempt is to display on the Thorfinn's maps the settlement zones of the human populations and other "friendly" peoples, based as much as possible on the official informations available; then, simulating their economies.
This could be useful for both the "campaigns" of the game ("where are the bad guys?") and for creating domains ("how many inhabitants could there be in that map hexagon?" or "how many troops can hire that contry?"); or this is just a waste of time ... :D

This is my LAST map of Ylaruam, based on Thorfinn's update map:

Image

On the map you may see:
1) colored population levels:
- (green = settled;
- yellow = borderlands;
- light violet = wilderness;
- other colours = no human population (but … what about monsters?? :evil: ).

2) several vassals (more than before) all bordered in red and withe:
- n. 4 vassals of Alasiya (*): before there were only two (Deraan and Hedjazi) having thought only of the "surplus limit" (*) and distances from the capital Ylaruam; but I had to create two NEW vassals (Sulba and Kuznetz) to better represent the feudal system and ... prevent the inhabitants of Yalruam from being able - in fact - to cultivate the fields near Sulba or Kuznetz ... :roll: (you may observe that the "mansus" close to Ylaruam are smaller than before: now, each family living close to Ylaruam cultivates 27,29 acres, instead 43,34 acres!);
- n. 1 vassal of Nicostenia (Cubis) (*);
- n. 1 vassal of Nithia needs its vassal (Cinsa_Men_Noo), due to the significant differences between the coastal part and the internal area;
- n. 2 NEW vassal of Abbashan (Jaboor and Fabia), due to the significant differences between the coastal part and the internal area;
(*) Alasiya and Nicostenia resource's income are really huge, so them have to create vassals or lose a part (more than 15.000 gp/month "resource's" income, according Rules Cyclopedia dominion's economic);

3) the Barimoor's Underground Complex (mapped in Gazetter 2, but not on the Thorfin's map);

4) the village of Dar El Tamyya (already present on Thorfinn's map, but of which I have set the population in 300 inhabitants: the difference between the 229,700 indicated in Gazetteer 2 and the 230,000 indicated in PWA1 and TM2););

5) the village of Kirkuk (already present on Thorfinn's map, BUT now placed in Makistan Emirate instead in Dithestenia) for the following reasons:
- Dithestenia is a really an under-populated Emirate: I think we cannot place here the Kirkuk village (400 people, with other people in surronding area), simply because this Emirate hasn't enough population (and not enough military strenght to protect its territory);
- there are at least 650 nomads living around Kirkuk, plus a group of 130 bandits: too many people (400+650+130 = 1.180) for the under-populated Dithestenia (its total population is 7.600);
- Barimoor's Agents strike Kirkuk (this means Kirkuk must be close the "Barimoor's underground complex"; the hills in the middle of Dithestenia aren't);
- Gaz. 2 describes Kirkuk as a city in an hilly region close to the Altan Tepes (there are rains), but it's also very close to the desert;
- placing Kirkuk in Makistan, we meet all the conditions described in the Gazetter 2 (even the presence of the the ruins of the Thyatian fort could be reasonable) and makes the city a "key-place" to keep away the Barimoor's enemies;
- another good placement (there is a Thyatian fort) could be in Nicostenia (the 2nd hex, south/west Cubis) but, again, Cubis seems far from the "Barimoor's underground Complex".

The Gazetteer 2 indicates the following levels of civilization, expressed in inhabitants per square mile (sqm):
- coastal plain (settled): 40-70 inhabitants/sqm (more in the major cities of Nithia-Abbashan-Nicostenia);
- steppe (settled): 10-20 inhabitants/sqm
- hills (settled): 5-10 inhabitants/sqm;
- hills (and any other territory) "borderland": 1-5 inhabitants/sqm;
- hills/desert (and any other territory) "wilderness": less than 1 inhabitants/sqm;
- desert/borderland: 30-60 inhabitants/sqm (this is definitely a MISTAKE: borderland areas cannot have more than 5 inhabitants/sqm).
I had to INTEGRATE these values with the following:
- plain (settled): 20-30 inhabitants/sqm;
- oasis (settled): 10-20 inhabitants/sqm.

Now, knowing that an 8-mile-diameter hex has an area of 55,426 square miles (sqm), we can calculate an "average" of how many inhabitants might be in a given hexagon of maps (settled/borderland/Wilderness).

For those who want a setting with a greater extent of human presence, it would be enough to halve the density of wilderness hexagons to double the number.
In fact, in my representation I specifically indicated a density of 0.90 inhabitants/sqm (= 50 inhabitants per hexagon) for each wilderness areas; the rules of the game set a maximum limit of 0.99 inhabitants/sqm.
However, in this way, you would have a more or less stable human presence even in "very hot" areas (primarily the underground complex of Barimoor) as well as a considerable distance from the most important population centers (up to 24 miles in the desert maybe it would be too much ... but that, of course, is just my opinion.)

Here are my LAST Emirate's economics:
Alasiya: https://ibb.co/t3cjKrZ
- Sulba: https://ibb.co/tc79PgP
- Deraan: https://ibb.co/FDFFnJW
- Hedjazi: https://ibb.co/vk9xZ6L
- Kuznetz: https://ibb.co/qn2HLXp
Nicostenia: https://ibb.co/FByJzV5
- Cubis: https://ibb.co/2kbt7QK
Makistan: https://ibb.co/FxqrCKN
Abbashan: https://ibb.co/DR7ZXVr
- Jaboor: https://ibb.co/8PMzxCC
- Fabia: https://ibb.co/SV4pfgZ
Nithia: https://ibb.co/PhdgCRt
- Cinsa-Men-Noo: https://ibb.co/RT8ByMQ
Dithestenia: https://ibb.co/Vj0Y5T7

Emirates Informations are taken from Gazetter 2 and TM2.
All Emirate's "Land" and "Sea" armies are composed as described in PWA1.

About the dominion economics: I based mostly on BECMI-Rules Cyclopedia, but referring to 8 miles hex (instead 24 miles hex).
There are some add on (as ex. Artisans, Merchants and Wealthy families), but for the specific profile of economic reconstruction (i.e., the "assignment of the population to resources" and "relative taxes and income"), I must point out that was my interest applying the official BECMI-RC rules (so, gp in abundance for all!!), with which we have all been passionate; wasn't my wish develop different appropriate rules.

About the cost of officers and specialists: I had to integrate the official rules of the game. As example:
- I assume 2HD (and 3HD) troop's cost is + 10 gp for a 2HD soldier (and + 20 gp for a 3HD soldier) to the base cost (D&D Expert Set).
- I assume a 3HD sergeant will cost 60 gp/month (following BECMI rules, a sergeant would cost just 20gp /month).

Surely you will notice "my" Emirates have complexively more "peace time" troops (1,200 Defensive troops + 4,920 Land army in 14 Divisions + 600 Sea Army in 10 fleet's Divisions = 6,700 TOTAL), than indicated in TM2 (2,860 military) or in PWA1 (1,5% of 230,000 inhabitants = 3,450) (*).
My wish is also that even the poorest emirate (Dithestenia) is able to deploy at least 1 regiment (120 mounted bowman 2HD): to doing so, in Ylaruam has been necessary setting the salt tax at 10% (instead 20%) for Nicostenia, Makistan, Abbashan, Nithia and Dithestenia; otherways some of these Emirates would have any (or very small) army ... and Alasiya would have too big!
(*) I didn't consider informations from the X10 Red Arrow Black Shield, that runs in 1200 a.c. and gives to the Ylaruam's army the following 'wartime' strenght: 14 divisions of 715 personnel, each with a BR of 151 (the expedition army counts 10.010).

About other matters, however, I tried to make a realistic simulation; as example, the Food Balance is based on rules I wrote, reading several articles (and I'm still working on it).
But always keeping an eye on the game: near all Emirates (not Nithia) benefit from "Garden in the Desert" technology bonus (+10% crops production): we could immagine clerics helping people to increase cultivations. And, in every emirate, Deputy Chaplains create some food to help the rulers.

A last note: the order of "Eternal Truth" receives 161,728 gp from the tithes; to this, we should also add some coins from the faithfuls.

Below is a SUMMARY for the whole country, were it is also possible to compare the densities for the different types of land in each Emirate:
Image

I hope you will enjoy this arid and dangerous land ... :twisted:

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Gecko
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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Gecko »

Fabrizio- what family size do you use? Seems to be around 5.56 people/family, or does it vary by settlement/terrain?

That looks like a beautiful spreadsheet- every time I try to make one it comes out usable but ugly format.

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Hugin
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Re: [Outer World] Ylaruam, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin »

Thanks for sharing, fabriziohockey. I'm always messing around with this kind of thing as well and its always neat to see what others are producing.

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