Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

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Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:12 am

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Map of the Shimmering Lands, 8 miles per hex by John Calvin, March 2009
Image Image ImageImage

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This map of the Shimmering Lands in 2300 BC covers areas of current day (1000 AC) Ethengar, Rockhome, Northern Reaches, Darokin, and Ylaruam, as well as lands that sunk beneath the sea in 1700 BC.


Sources: GAZ6 The Dwarves of Rockhome (1988), GAZ7 The Northern Reaches (1988), GAZ12 The Golden Khan of Ethengar (1989), TM2 The Eastern Countries (1989)

Unofficial Maps: Taymor at the Vaults of Pandius, Physical Map of Southeastern Brun (c. BC 2000) (2002) by Geoff Gander, Map of Taymora (2003) by James Mishler, Map of Southeastern Brun: 2500 BC (2003) by James Mishler, Geopolitical map of Taymora (2004) by Giampaolo Agosta, Taymora BC 2300 by John Calvin, Taymora BC 2300 with cities by John Calvin.

Notes on Shimmering Lands
  • I have placed the land bridge from Brun to the Island of Dawn going through (and incorporating) Ostland. Other maps have placed this land bridge in different locations, but after studying the terrain extensively, this is the location that makes the most sense to me.
To Do List
  1. Add Kogolor settlements to the map (most likely in the Rockhome region) once their history is integrated with the Shimmering Lands timeline.
  2. Continue to name all major geographical features.
References
  1. Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex
  2. Mystara 2300 BC - The Shimmering Lands
Thanks to: Thorfinn Tait, for providing some wonderful graphics to use in all of our mapping projects, Geoff Gander, Havard, RobJN, yellowdingo, Hervé Musseau, Giulio Caroletti (all for providing insight and support on this project).
Last edited by Chimpman on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:19 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Cthulhudrew » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:10 am

Awesome map!
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:49 am

It's very nice, indeed. :)

John, if I can give you a piece of advice: save your map as an 8-bit PNG rather than a JPEG. It should work out being a reasonable size and there won't be compression artifacts everywhere so it'll look much cleaner.

What do all the Palace symbols represent?

And I like your use of the horseshoe symbol as a gate! Amusingly it fits right in. :lol:

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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:45 am

Thanks guys!

I need to find some place to host the images. I've been uploading them to my google pages account, but anything over a meg it appears that google is converting to jpgs and compressing. I'll try uploading to another site.

The Palace symbols are to represent the Moadreg estates, although at the 8mi/hex scale only the largest estates are shown. Estates are run by the servants of a single dwarven elder and exist for the sole purpose of catering to said individual's every want or need. The smallest estates probably cover around 10 square miles, while larger estates can cover up to several hundred.
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Sat May 02, 2009 5:18 pm

Based on discussions in the Kogolor thread I went ahead and modified the glaciers here. They look a little less "blobby" although I'm not sure that they snake enough. I may go back and revise them some more later.

As for the images I'd love to be able to post the png files. When I save as a png, the file size ends up being about 3 megs. Does this sound right? Regardless I have not found a site yet that will let me upload images that large (and that keeps them intact as png files). Do any of you have suggestions? If Shawn's amenable I could send him the png (when it's completed), but that might be a while yet still.
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by metal » Sun May 03, 2009 4:10 am

Very nice looking map!!! ;)
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by stanles » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:57 am

Chimpman wrote:Based on discussions in the Kogolor thread I went ahead and modified the glaciers here. They look a little less "blobby" although I'm not sure that they snake enough. I may go back and revise them some more later.

As for the images I'd love to be able to post the png files. When I save as a png, the file size ends up being about 3 megs. Does this sound right? Regardless I have not found a site yet that will let me upload images that large (and that keeps them intact as png files). Do any of you have suggestions? If Shawn's amenable I could send him the png (when it's completed), but that might be a while yet still.
yeah that would be OK for me
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Havard » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:21 pm

Awesome map John! :)

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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:40 am

Ya, nice map! Somehow I missed the actual map dispite looking at posts in this thread! :oops:

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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:16 am

Ok, it's been a while, but here is another update. I'm going through the Shimmering Lands atlas section region by region, and revising my map accordingly along the way. So far Demevand is updated, along with portions of Dranevar and Gromevand. I've added trails, roads, mines, and other various symbols, as well as changing some of the previously existing symbols.

Another thing to note - I've added a png link (the jpg link is pointing to an old image). The new google sites tool allows me to upload pngs of any size. The old pages tool would convert anything larger than a meg into a jpg. So enjoy the better quality pics :D I'll be going through the rest of my images and updating them as I get the chance.
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:22 am

This map was due for an update - mostly just clean up, but I did add a obelisk icon on the World Mountain to mark the location of a Blackmoorian era outpost.

Also the links to these images were broken. If anyone comes across any other broken BC 2300 images, please let me know.
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:32 pm

Studying the map again, I wonder what happened in the Forest of Tears to give it that name...
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:43 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:Studying the map again, I wonder what happened in the Forest of Tears to give it that name...
Unfortunately my atlas section for the region of Thallyste is pretty sparse at the moment, and I'm not sure exactly what I was thinking when I labeled that region (if anything). It is very close the blighted land caused by the Gate of Light, which might suggest that the radiance is affecting it in some way. It is also likely that the dwarves fought many early battles here (with the giants or perhaps others) during the formative years of the nation.

One concept I've been playing with while revising my timeline is an animosity between the Brunian dwarves already occupying the area (mostly Yardark), and the Skotharians migrating over through the Dawn Lands and the Bridge of Oost. The interesting thing, is that the stretch of land containing the Forest of Tears is the only piece of land that connects the Bridge of Oost with the mainland. That would make it the perfect location for any Brunian dwarves not wanting to welcome their Skotharian cousins to set up a line of defense.

So perhaps the Forest of Tears is a location where the early dwarven settlers were fighting (and killing) each other... and due to the proximity of the Radiance (and the association of the Radiance with the Spirit World), perhaps there are some restless dwarven spirits trapped in those woods...
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:36 am

The map is filling out. I made the latest update last night. There are probably 2-3 more map updates in this one before I'm ready to remove that "Work in Progress" icon :D
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:24 am

Posted final Shimmering Lands map (which also happens to be the first of my BC 2300 maps that gets the "Work In Progress" button removed!). This latest rendition has most of the major settlements named, additional landmarks/battles added, and a shiny new "castle" border.
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Sturm » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:44 am

Well done! Following with great interest!
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:23 pm

Sturm wrote:Well done! Following with great interest!
Thanks Sturm! I think with the castle borders added, it gives the map a very clean look... but I'm not too sure about all that white space. I'd love to fill it up with something - heraldry, religious icons, city maps (though they would be very low resolution - there's not that much space), or perhaps some kind of stats table. Still not sure yet.
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by RobJN » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:47 pm

I am keenly interested in the "Gate of Light," the lands surrounding it, and especially the little town, there....

The flat gray hexes: are they wasteland?
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:08 am

RobJN wrote:I am keenly interested in the "Gate of Light," the lands surrounding it, and especially the little town, there....
What? Himnem? Oh... you may get to find out more about that place...
RobJN wrote:The flat gray hexes: are they wasteland?
They are. I had in my mind something equivalent to the Land of Black Sands in Ethengar - a blighted area that grows in diameter a little bit each year (every time the Gate of Light opens).

Actually Himnem is the seat of power for radiomancers in the area, and a semi-mecca/pilgrimage destination for dwarven masters who are curious about their heritage. It's said that when the Gate opens you can peer back in time and see Blackmoor at the moment of its destruction (which is where all the radiance comes from actually ;) ). Himnem has a few other things going for it as well - it's the Chapter-head for the Seekers of Redemption (more on them later...), and the center for studying radiance based magic and diseases (like the Wasting).

Also of note (possibly) - if you compare that location to a modern era map of Mystara, you'll see that both Himnem and the Gate of Light should be located in the ocean somewhere off the coast of Ostland. It is possible that some remnants have survived even into the present... :twisted:
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:04 pm

Well, it's been a while since I visited this thread, but Robin has recently been asking me some questions about the area (I think she is working on compiling a history of Ethengar at the moment). As luck would have it, I'm also working on a AP in the area (the first two installments have been in Threshold 16 and 17), so I've been thinking about the area at least a little bit.

I'm pretty sure I've talked about this somewhere else (though I can't find the thread at the moment), but I had always intended that several of the northern locations marked as "dwarven estates" in the Shimmering Lands map would eventually become the "bad magic" or hakoman sites in modern day Ethengar. The basic premise is that the dwarves of this time are masters of the arcane arts (and a little dark and possibly crazy) and after the dwarven people get remade by Kagyar (in BC 1800) and the Shimmering Lands is long forgotten, these sites will continue to radiate a menacing presence.

The site marked "Hrokyrdran" will become the World Mountain (I believe caused by a backlash of power from the circa BC 1700 Lesser Rain of Fire in the Broken Lands - caused by elves meddling with an ancient Blackmoorian device). Using that you should be able to match up several of the estates with the bad magic areas of Ethengar.

What those estates consist of is still up for debate... although at least one of them is being detailed in the AP I mentioned above (Layhash will feature prominently in the adventures to come). Most should probably conform to standard dwarven estates of this time (a central compound reserved for the dwarven master and ancillary workshops and living areas in the surrounding countryside). The compound/stronghold in the center would be where most of the magic and power of this time is stored.

In the modern era I suspect that many of these sites are partially to mostly destroyed, or in some way buried or covered by the ravages of time, although a portion of their power remains (and can be made use of by those brave enough to explore these sites).

Another item of note, is that most marked locations on this map are not major population centers, but rather major power centers (being held be a relatively small percentage of the population). In the north of the map the largest population centers are Kairhyeld and possibly Kroduhg.
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Robin » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:04 pm

I am working on a 1 mile Hex map of Ethengar....and as working in this scale gives and needs much, much more detail, I had to dig into Mystara history of the Region. To see what did change, and how, to enable making an ecological pathway towards the 1000AC+ era, together with all sociopolitical changes with regional effects; like cities turning to ruins, being plundered to make other settlements or castles, which war is set upon, until it is abandoned or altered...eitherway, all these actions leave behind traces (which all could be great adventure seeds in one way or another.

I already did similar with the Geomorphological history of the Broken Lands. This I created from only the few existing maps before and the single one after the 1700 BC disaster. all this research (of which most were part of my schooling, so I would think I know something about) thus enabled to create the 1 mile hex maps of the Broken Lands. I hope it will do the same with Ethengar

See the growth/evolution thus far in this topic
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15023&p=220605#p219689

The maps created thus far ust to show what I already did with Chimpman's maps towards the current 1000AC+
I made a historic timeline composition thus far
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -763398401
World Mountain thus far
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -765030823
South Ethengar (Krandai River) thus far
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -763936216
Southwest Ethengar
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -765746310
The Ethengar map, with the names in Ethengerian (aka Real World Mongolian)?
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -763137342

keep in mind, they are far, very far from completion, but much of the detailing is already drawn from Chimpman's maps (as far as I could see it clear enough)

You mention Hrokyrdran as being the Future world mountain. As in the 1 mile Hex topic I already discovered World Mountain must be a Carbonatite volcano becoming activated by the 1700BC disaster(s), and 3050BC and earlier, and 2300BC gave variant material, which I desire to combine in one way or another. See here; viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15023&p=220605#p220605
As the 1 mile hex maps need detailing, all the older ruins/settlements and other longerlasting locations I like to inter into the map. The more detail, the better the endresult.

I'll post there tommorrow a list post about the Hakomon sites. I derived thus far...I like the interpretation of Chimpman where Dwarves were at least partially responsible for the Hakomon locations, yet I also feel there are too many too far apart to be all done by them...I suspect some to be spawned naturally by biological processes of the living planet, the 2300 disaster, the Spirit Realm, and Sphere of Death Effects rawn in, and maybe even some other. I compose this list with as much detail as I discoverec canon and fanon, with some creations created by me out of geological, Sociological, historical and biological logic (one of the locations for example is composed of the skeleton of a wurm like creature, maybe a Burrower, which I derived from AD&D2 Dragonlance Tales, where I found Dwarves killing such a creature. I simply found this fitting on this location). More on this in a few days.
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Robin » Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:03 pm

Chimpman wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:04 pm
Well, it's been a while since I visited this thread, but Robin has recently been asking me some questions about the area (I think she is working on compiling a history of Ethengar at the moment). As luck would have it, I'm also working on a AP in the area (the first two installments have been in Threshold 16 and 17), so I've been thinking about the area at least a little bit.
AP?? I am delving through your awesome sources as we speak.
Chimpman wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:04 pm
What those estates consist of is still up for debate... although at least one of them is being detailed in the AP I mentioned above (Layhash will feature prominently in the adventures to come). Most should probably conform to standard dwarven estates of this time (a central compound reserved for the dwarven master and ancillary workshops and living areas in the surrounding countryside). The compound/stronghold in the center would be where most of the magic and power of this time is stored.
I see you mentioned a few in your 2300BC DM book. That greatly helped in determining the effects of the locations today. Yet not all of them.
Would you think these (not mentioned in 2300BC DM book) would have had influence of Dreamwalkers or Shadowmancy??
Chimpman wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:04 pm
In the modern era I suspect that many of these sites are partially to mostly destroyed, or in some way buried or covered by the ravages of time, although a portion of their power remains (and can be made use of by those brave enough to explore these sites).
In effect these would thus all be ruins in one shape or another if I am correct?
Chimpman wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:04 pm
Another item of note, is that most marked locations on this map are not major population centers, but rather major power centers (being held be a relatively small percentage of the population). In the north of the map the largest population centers are Kairhyeld and possibly Kroduhg.
As Hrokyrdran is apparently located on the same location of the 3050BC and earlier maps as the Blackmoor mining city of Grassdale, would you think the dwarves created Hrokyrdran within these ruins (maybe even build with these ruins) or settle very close. I assume that Kairhyeld is located firther down the former river...am I right?
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:07 pm

Robin wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:04 pm
I'll post there tommorrow a list post about the Hakomon sites. I derived thus far...I like the interpretation of Chimpman where Dwarves were at least partially responsible for the Hakomon locations, yet I also feel there are too many too far apart to be all done by them...I suspect some to be spawned naturally by biological processes of the living planet, the 2300 disaster, the Spirit Realm, and Sphere of Death Effects rawn in, and maybe even some other.
I quite agree.
Robin wrote: I compose this list with as much detail as I discoverec canon and fanon, with some creations created by me out of geological, Sociological, historical and biological logic (one of the locations for example is composed of the skeleton of a wurm like creature, maybe a Burrower, which I derived from AD&D2 Dragonlance Tales, where I found Dwarves killing such a creature. I simply found this fitting on this location). More on this in a few days.
This is very interesting and could maybe be tied into JTR's 5000 BC setting (where he has brute-men combating the machinations of Burrower worshiping cultists and the like). This kind of thing would have been going on both on the Outer World and inside the Hollow World until the SoP put all of the Burrowers in stasis.

Anyway, I very much like the idea that some of the dwarves of BC 2300 stumbled upon the remnants of a Burrower (or something related) and turned the site into a stronghold of their own. The kind of magic that would come from such a site could be very powerful (and quite disturbing) - perfect for the 2300 BC setting!

Since Mystara has such a long (and fairly well fleshed out history - especially by the fans) I think we could come up with several possible origins for the hakomin sites, with dwarven occupation being just one of many.
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:24 pm

I'm going break up my responses, as this seems to be getting large:
Robin wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:03 pm
AP?? I am delving through your awesome sources as we speak.
The pressures of Real Life have caused me to miss a few issues, but I do have an overall plan that I intend to flesh out. There are some related threads on the 2300 BC forum as well.
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Robin wrote:
Chimpman wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:04 pm
What those estates consist of is still up for debate... although at least one of them is being detailed in the AP I mentioned above (Layhash will feature prominently in the adventures to come). Most should probably conform to standard dwarven estates of this time (a central compound reserved for the dwarven master and ancillary workshops and living areas in the surrounding countryside). The compound/stronghold in the center would be where most of the magic and power of this time is stored.
I see you mentioned a few in your 2300BC DM book. That greatly helped in determining the effects of the locations today. Yet not all of them.
Would you think these (not mentioned in 2300BC DM book) would have had influence of Dreamwalkers or Shadowmancy??
I did ;) Most of the hakomin/bad magic sites would fall under the region of Karghthyne, and I tried to detail a few locations from each region (although not all). Part of the reason was because those were the ideas that stuck in my head, and partly because I wanted other folks to fill in some of the blanks with their own ideas. I particularly love the Burrower idea you had above (consider it appropriated ;) ).

I envisioned most of the area being dominated by Felwig dwarves (devoted to radiomancy), but that's not an absolute. Dreamwalkers would predominate on the Bridge of Oost (Qivar province). Shadowmancy (primarily the dwarves of Hurgon) might predominate in Thallyste, though I honestly hadn't given it much thought. Regardless, both arcane specialties could have migrated into Karghthyne to some degree, so having one or more of those sites be related to those disciplines seems reasonable.

The exceptions would probably be:
Kairhyeld = radiomancy
Heldfyst = radiamancy
Hrokyrdran = radiamancy (and also may be a nexus to the Ethereal Plane)
Thaghdyt = radiamancy

Another site I am currently detailing is Layhash.
Layhash = Fey magic (could be related to Dreamwalkers)

Other sites are fair game! Keep in mind that these are only the largest estates listed on the map (and detailed in the Gaz), but there should exist several other estates of varying sizes across the landscape.
Last edited by Chimpman on Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Outer World: Shimmering Lands 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:43 pm

Second part ;)
Robin wrote:
Chimpman wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:04 pm
In the modern era I suspect that many of these sites are partially to mostly destroyed, or in some way buried or covered by the ravages of time, although a portion of their power remains (and can be made use of by those brave enough to explore these sites).
In effect these would thus all be ruins in one shape or another if I am correct?
In modern times definitely.

The dwarven strongholds were probably ravaged during the conflicts (closer to a civil war) that leads up to BC 1800, when the victors (the Chosen of Kagyar) are essentially transformed into a new dwarven species. Those dwarves (for the most part) abandon much of their former arcane ways, though some remnant of dwarven magic (mostly related to their forges) still remains. I don't think that dwarves after BC 1800 would have sought out those locations to rebuild, so many would have remained largely abandoned whether they had been destroyed in the conflicts or not.

Having said that, other folk could have moved in, seeking to gain the secrets of the dwarves. Anyone could have been occupying those sites between BC 1800 and BC 1700 (most probably Antalians or humanoids), however once the Land of Black Sands is generated circa BC 1700 many of those sites would probably have been abandoned. Note that the Land of Black Sands did not form fully generated, but has grown over the years, so again some of those sites (most notably those along the outer edge) could have been occupied for longer.
Robin wrote:
Chimpman wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:04 pm
Another item of note, is that most marked locations on this map are not major population centers, but rather major power centers (being held be a relatively small percentage of the population). In the north of the map the largest population centers are Kairhyeld and possibly Kroduhg.
As Hrokyrdran is apparently located on the same location of the 3050BC and earlier maps as the Blackmoor mining city of Grassdale, would you think the dwarves created Hrokyrdran within these ruins (maybe even build with these ruins) or settle very close. I assume that Kairhyeld is located firther down the former river...am I right?
Correct. Hrokyrdran would have been discovered by the dwarves moving into that area - the idea was always that it was a former Blackmoorian outpost of some kind. The AP I'm working on will tie it into planar travel and the Lightning Road (of RobJN's creation).

Kairhyeld is a stronghold of purely dwarven design, and would have been created further down the base of the mountain along the river. It essentially serves as the "capital" of the region of Karghthyne, though it's not really a city. Many dwarven adventuring bands of the time used it as a base of operations from which to explore the surrounding region (including Hrokrydran).
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