Page 1 of 3

[Project] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:16 pm
by Argentmantle
Petition to remove all the mountains of Skothar!!!

I'm in the process of putting together a different map style and just noticed the huge number of mountain chain that runs along the spine of the continent.

I should have a new set of maps to show off today. The idea behind these is to be the same or similar in style from world to region to national to local in all things

Moderator Note: Changed thread title. Was: Petition & Mapping Style.

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:02 pm
by Havard
Yes, it does look a bit weird with all thuse mountains. I would assume tons of cool valleys and interesting adventure locations between the mountains :)

-Havard

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:43 pm
by Argentmantle
Not as nice as I had hoped, gonna go back and tweak most or all of it.

Image

At the end of the day, it involves a lot of 'eyeballing' the mountains. Which, I'm trying to get away from.

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:33 am
by Argentmantle
AH!!!!!

Finally...

Image

And the more artistic for interior art.

Image

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:36 am
by Thorf
My view on this is quite simple: http://www.thorfmaps.com/skothar-continental-hex-map/

The second map shows the major ridges in each range, derived from the Jurassic Earth map — which is where almost all of Mystara's (world map's) mountain ranges come from in the first place.

By the way, I love these maps! Great stuff. :D

Edit: Also of course I'm biased but I prefer the regular sized Skothar. ;)

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:27 am
by Morfie
Thorf wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:36 am

Edit: Also of course I'm biased but I prefer the regular sized Skothar. ;)
I was going to say you (Argentmantle) appeared to have used the fanon-made bloated Skothar. I also prefer the regular size one that Thorf made.

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:18 am
by Thorf
Morfie wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:27 am
I was going to say you (Argentmantle) appeared to have used the fanon-made bloated Skothar. I also prefer the regular size one that Thorf made.
I can't take credit for that — it's just the original one from the Master Set. ;)

It's also modelled on Eurasia, and expanding it has unintended effects on its shape, which is the real reason why I dislike the big expanded Skothar.

By the way Argentmantle you have good timing — I was just looking at the mountain ridges on the world map last night. This comes up in my Let's Map Mystara 1985 article, because I'm including the Jurassic Earth map, which has three aspects we can adapt to Mystara: the projection, the coastal shelves/ocean depths, and the mountain ridges.

I'm going to publish the article pretty soon, and the maps for 1985 include all three of these features. :mrgreen:

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:56 am
by Sturm
Beautiful!
I prefer instead the way Skothar looks in your map which more or less follow Thibault Sarlat early mapping of the continent based on the shape it had in the HW map. I do not like basing the continent too close on the Master Set because it creates a ocean as big as half the world where basically there is nothing canon or fan made to put into. A bigger Skothar has more room for interesting cultures as those outlined in Threshold issue #20.
That said, the Master Map is certainly easier to align with other canon maps, while the HW boxed set map has clearly wrong planet dimensions and continental shapes, hence I made my own take (which is here http://pandius.com/motrwrld.html)

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:16 pm
by Big Mac
Very nice work Argentmantle!
Argentmantle wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:16 pm
To remove all the mountains of Skothar!!!

I'm in the process of putting together a different map style and just noticed the huge number of mountain chain that runs along the spine of the continent.
...and...
Thorf wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:36 am
The second map shows the major ridges in each range, derived from the Jurassic Earth map — which is where almost all of Mystara's (world map's) mountain ranges come from in the first place.
Has anyone looked at the real-world geological processes that were happening back in the Jurrasic Earth and looked at how that sort of process might still work on a planet that is actually a hollow world?

Could the Known World still have continental drift and all that other stuff going on without land needing to go in and out of the Polar Openings?

Or could the idea of things being "moved into the Hollow World" happen literally sometimes?

If you don't have that going on, how else can the Skthar mountain ranges be explained?

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:26 pm
by Argentmantle
What's great is that the whole process is pretty straightforward. This was more or less a trial run for a new series of photoshop actions and techniques to get a consistent map set that works from World to Local (down to about the 1 mile per inch scale).

It's set up as like 27 photoshop actions/automatic laters and something like 19 manual steps to go from another map to this. The largest step being culling the terrain types (hills, mountains, forests, and oddities).

I'm going to plug a different map or 3 later to make sure the process holds up!

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:19 pm
by Argentmantle
It works!!!

Image

Here is the Master Set map. I skipped painting in the deserts, forests, and dolling up the oceans. This makes it quite easy to build a good looking elevation style map, very quickly.

I think it took about 30 minutes.

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:48 pm
by Havard
Very nice!

Wow, only 30 mins? :o

-Havard

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:32 am
by Wangalade
Big Mac wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:16 pm

Has anyone looked at the real-world geological processes that were happening back in the Jurrasic Earth and looked at how that sort of process might still work on a planet that is actually a hollow world?

Could the Known World still have continental drift and all that other stuff going on without land needing to go in and out of the Polar Openings?

Or could the idea of things being "moved into the Hollow World" happen literally sometimes?

If you don't have that going on, how else can the Skothar mountain ranges be explained?
yeah . . . . the hollow world screws with tectonic plates and continental drift, basically it wouldn't happen. continental drift is dependent on the heat and pressure derived from the layers of superheated liquids and solids. Specifically the Athenosphere(upper Mantle) is what causes the tectonic plates to shift and expand and contract; as it is, the hollow models created by thorf just don't have a thick enough shell to support the athenosphere, and even if it did, the density of the material would have to be drastically increased to make up for the hollow center. the physics and geology of the whole situation is the main reason I'm hesitant to have the hollow world in my version of Mystara. I've been thinking about just transplanting the general cultures of the hollow world to a corresponding place in davania or skothar(nithia to Arypt). I have been searching for any scientific/pseudo-science explanation that would support the hollow world AND maintain the presence of tectonic plates, and none I have seen are remotely plausible. The closest I have come is this jewish guy who rejects western/christian science and in the process throws out gravity and explains the effects of gravity with electro-magnetism and some other weird stuff. I don't think his work is really correct or logical, but he's the only person I've seen who works through the equations and everything in a rigourously scientific manner.

So the bottom line, either the world is solid and has tectonic plates, ergo continental drift, or the world is hollow and has a static surface (therefore not being earth in the age of magic). Of course you could always say 'because magic!' and have both

Re: [Outer World] Argentmantle's Topographic Mapping Style

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:23 pm
by Argentmantle
Overall the mapping technique seems to hold up pretty well.

Image

Image

Image

Big problems are replicating the altitudes correct of the mountains...

Re: Petition & Mapping Style

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:09 am
by Thorf
Wangalade wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:32 am
Specifically the Athenosphere(upper Mantle) is what causes the tectonic plates to shift and expand and contract; as it is, the hollow models created by thorf just don't have a thick enough shell to support the athenosphere, and even if it did, the density of the material would have to be drastically increased to make up for the hollow center.
Obviously you have a point, in that by its very nature the Hollow World precludes the real life model of the Earth. However, Aaron Allston did come up with an explanation that at least explains gravity and volcanism, and could probably be extended to include plate tectonics: the magical material of the World Shield, which is basically just a way of compressing what should be the extremely thick core into a vastly thinner layer.

Whether you accept this as an explanation of course is entirely up to you, but at the very least the explanation is there in official sources. And let's face it, the whole idea of the Hollow World is so entirely beyond the realms of science that there's only so far we can go in "explaining" it anyway. ;)

One more thing: although the core is clearly not there, or rather has been hugely compressed into a very thin layer, the asthenosphere and the layers immediately below it do indeed have enough space. Checking this article at Wikipedia:

Image

Image

Official sources tend to give the crust as 1,200 miles, I believe. That's enough to provide Mystara with all the top layers (inside as well as out), and the top of the mantle.

My model currently has a depth of 3,414 miles, which is enough depth to provide the outer and inner worlds with the top layers plus the full mantle — everything but the core, really.

One last thing: it seems clear from Mystara's underground realms that its underworld is already vastly different from the real world's. Isn't this true of all fantasy that has people living well below the surface world? In reality, things get hotter and hotter, with more and more pressure as you go further down, do they not? Clearly this is not the case in D&D underworlds, which tend to be depicted as cold caves and caverns.

In conclusion, I'd argue that none of this really matters anyway. After all, whether or not the planet currently has plate tectonics, Mystara's mountains are clearly based on plate tectonics since they're inspired by a map of the Earth. Unsatisfactory as this may be as an in-world explanation, it's certainly rather useful to us cartographers in terms of terrain design. :D

Re: Petition & Mapping Style

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:13 am
by Thorf
Love these last maps. :mrgreen:
Argentmantle wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:23 pm
Image
Where is this one? I can't seem to work out.
Big problems are replicating the altitudes correct of the mountains...
I don't think you need to worry about that too much at this scale. Zooming in, on the other hand...

Re: Petition & Mapping Style

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:34 am
by Argentmantle
It does, this is a very low res version of the map. The 300 DPI version is a bit better than 1500 px for forum size.

The map started from the regional map around Slagovich. Its the tip of the Black Mountains along the coast.

Re: Petition & Mapping Style

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:36 am
by Thorf
Argentmantle wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:34 am
The map started from the regional map around Slagovich. Its the tip of the Black Mountains along the coast.
Thanks! Now I see it. I guess this shows just how little I'm used to seeing Mystara in this way.

I'd definitely want to go in and do some development on the zoomed in maps.

Would you mind sharing some details of the conversion process you're using here?

Re: Petition & Mapping Style

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:15 am
by Argentmantle
And a section of Slagovich...

Image

Re: Petition & Mapping Style

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:26 pm
by Argentmantle
Image

The city of Slagovich!!!

Re: Petition & Mapping Style

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:20 pm
by Havard
This looks amazing! :)

-Havard

Re: Petition & Mapping Style

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:14 pm
by Argentmantle
Going into Threshold in its full glory!!!

Re: Petition & Mapping Style

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:33 am
by Big Mac
Havard wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:48 pm
Wow, only 30 mins? :o
That's amazingly fast!

Is that just rendering time?

Re: Petition & Mapping Style

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:18 pm
by agathokles
Great maps, Argentmantle!
GP

Re: Petition & Mapping Style

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:05 pm
by Robin
Argentmantle wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:26 pm
Image

The city of Slagovich!!!
Wow
Great work Argentmatle. really :o :mrgreen:

I imagine many cities deserving such a treatment. :ugeek:
Some might be already Fan created or even (partially) canon, yet I assume this be best to do with all the major cities
And then post all these in a lexicon on Pandius. :geek:
It would be a great resource to all Mystara fans;) :lol: :mrgreen: