Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

A directory of geographical maps for the world of Mystara.

Moderators: Seer of Yhog, Havard, Thorf

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:01 pm

Maps

Map of Intua, 8 miles per hex by John Calvin, June 2010 (Work In Progress)
Image Image Image Image Image

Comments
This map of Intua in 2300 BC covers portions of current day (1000 AC) Atraughin, Darokin, possibly portions of The Five Shires, as well as lands that sunk beneath the sea in 1700 BC.
The main change is the Great Plateau - which is much smaller than the modern day Atraughin Plateau.


Sources:

Unofficial Maps:Physical Map of Southeastern Brun (c. BC 2000) (2002) by Geoff Gander, Map of Southeastern Brun: 2500 BC (2003) by James Mishler, Taymora BC 2300 with cities by John Calvin.

Notes on XXX
To Do List
  1. Continue to name all major geographical features.
References
  1. [Mystara 2300 BC] Intua - Kingdom of the Sun
  2. Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex
  3. Historical Mapping in the KW and Sea of Dread
  4. Real World Inca Language
  5. Quechua - wikipedia
  6. Inca Names
Thanks to: Thorfinn Tait, for providing some wonderful graphics to use in all of our mapping projects.
Last edited by Chimpman on Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:26 am, edited 4 times in total.
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Outer Being
Posts: 3230
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Gender: male
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:26 am

I like it! It's quite jarring to see Darokin filled with nothing but empty plains.
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:35 am

Thanks! I'm still playing around with some of the terrain - the hills mostly will probably change a bit in the final version (some of the forested ones changing to plain hills and vice versa).

Your map had a second lake beneath the Great Plateau. I'm wondering if I should add that in and shrink the size of Lake Amsorak a bit. Thoughts?
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 20312
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Havard » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:49 am

Great map John! Where can I read more about Intua? :)

Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
multizar
Troll
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:01 am
Gender: male
Location: Texas (This puts me in the Empire of Zuyevo)
Contact:

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by multizar » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:04 pm

Another wonderful map!
I do what I have to do so I can do what I want to do
Check out when you can see the ISS http://www.heavens-above.com

User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Outer Being
Posts: 3230
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Gender: male
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:01 pm

Chimpman wrote:Your map had a second lake beneath the Great Plateau. I'm wondering if I should add that in and shrink the size of Lake Amsorak a bit. Thoughts?
Yeah - I turned Malpheggi Swamp into a lake - made sense to me at the time. I seem to recall somewhere in GAZ 11 that Lake Amsorak was a different shape a long time ago - if I have time tonight I'll check my book.
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!

User avatar
Hugin
Messenger of Odin
Posts: 4154
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:13 pm

Looking really good so far, John! I'll try to make some comments as I can.

[We just moved last night, and have been busy for the last month preparing the new place and packing things up. This real life business stuff keeps interfering with my Mystara projects. :X ]

I like the idea of making Lake Amsorak a very different shape from what it is in the present. One possibility is to make it more elongated; narrower north to south but extending southeast to the Streel and westward (northwestward) a bit. How does that sound?

Regarding the Malpheggi Swamp, the Hollow World set describes the region as "a series of swamps on the southern coast". It should be set up in such a way as to allow a portion of the swampy region to end up as part of the Ierendi Island along with some of the Makai.

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:26 pm

@Havard and multizar
Thanks guys - I've been putting this one off for a while now - intimidated a bit by doing the Great Plateau, but I think it turned out ok.
As for more about Intua (the kingdom) and the Inti (the people)... well, that's coming shortly. One reason I finally tackled this map was to help me put the finishing touches on the Inti entry for the Mystara 2300 BC Campaign Overview doc. I need to spend a bit more time on it before posting though.

@Seer and Hugin
Thanks guys, and please let me know if you find anything on the ancient shape of Amsorak. If we don't find anything solid in canon I think Hugin's idea of elongating it is a good one. I'd probably change the shape of the southern and eastern shores most of all, and stretch the lake further south - possibly covering some of the villages and roads that are currently drawn. It might mean that I would also have to move or change the shape of the Plateau a bit also. I do want some portion of the Plateau up against the shores of the lake (near the capital of Cazcul).

Regarding the Malpheggi Swamp and those series of swamps along the southern coast - I always assumed that those were within the borders of Taymora (all of present day Ierendi and Minrothad fall within that map). In fact I've drawn plenty of swampy areas on that map where lizardmen (refugees from Mogreth and their descendants) could hold up at some point before the BC 1700 cataclysms.

One of the things I find most intriguing about doing these historical maps is that terrain types can be totally different from their current day counterparts. Alfheim, Ylaruan, The Shires, Karameikos, Thyatis and others are all pretty different from their modern maps. I kind of like the idea that the Malpheggi Swamp (where it is today) wasn't always there. That doesn't mean we can't have some other region called Malpheggi... hmmm... I wonder if there would be a good spot for it on the other (Taymoran) map?
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Hugin
Messenger of Odin
Posts: 4154
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:34 pm

Chimpman wrote:That doesn't mean we can't have some other region called Malpheggi... hmmm... I wonder if there would be a good spot for it on the other (Taymoran) map?
True. The only real connection between the two could be the name itself based on the lizardmen that occupied them (at separate times in history). I think I like this approach best, myself.

One other comment I have is that we are told in the Darokin gaz that humans first settle the region that will become Darokin circa 1500 BC. What that means to me is that we should have the region (basically referring to 'Darokin east of the Streel') as undesirable for settlement prior to this time. I think having sparse grasslands pre-LRoF (1750-1720 BC) as the best fit with what we are told. After those events, conditions gradually improved to the point where by 1500 BC the grasslands could support the herds of a nomadic lifestyle.

That means that around 2300 BC, the only human populations in the lands now within Darokin borders would be found along the south shores of Lake Amsorak.

What do you think, chimpman?

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:18 am

Hugin wrote:One other comment I have is that we are told in the Darokin gaz that humans first settle the region that will become Darokin circa 1500 BC. What that means to me is that we should have the region (basically referring to 'Darokin east of the Streel') as undesirable for settlement prior to this time. I think having sparse grasslands pre-LRoF (1750-1720 BC) as the best fit with what we are told. After those events, conditions gradually improved to the point where by 1500 BC the grasslands could support the herds of a nomadic lifestyle.
This all sounds reasonable. I'm sure that when a large chunk of southern Brun sinks beneath the waves circa BC 1700s that the weather patterns in that portion of the world are going to go all haywire. I wonder if this would be an argument for making the Alfheim region more of a desert area pre-BC 1700 and then have it change to grassy plains sometime after BC 1720? It's something I've always wanted to do but have been convinced to the contrary by references from Gaz 5 which state that the Alfheim area was grasslands when the elves moved in. If we take this track the land could well be desert in the BC 2300 era, and then change to grasslands after BC 1720 (and remain as such until the elves arrive). It also gives us an interesting change between the pre and post BC 1700 maps.
Hugin wrote:That means that around 2300 BC, the only human populations in the lands now within Darokin borders would be found along the south shores of Lake Amsorak.
I'm thinking that the grassy lands south and west of Amsorak could house one of the Neathar "great plains" tribes. However if the Streel river (or it's precursor) is still flowing in roughly the same area, I'd think there would be settlements along its shores going pretty far north. I'd agree though that east of the Streel is probably a pretty inhospitable place.

On the other hand, if we want to make this a really barren area we could divert the Streel in some way. I'm just not sure what canon has to say about that river. Does anyone know when the earliest mention of the Streel is placed?

EDIT: Those wanting a bigger picture of the BC 2300 era map can see this map of the BC 2300 Known World. The resolution is smaller, but the entire area is included.
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:55 am

Hugin wrote:One other comment I have is that we are told in the Darokin gaz that humans first settle the region that will become Darokin circa 1500 BC. What that means to me is that we should have the region (basically referring to 'Darokin east of the Streel') as undesirable for settlement prior to this time.
Here's a second thought on this subject (made as I'm looking through some of the other nations in the 2300 BC era setting). What if there were already inhabitants in the region... and they weren't human. Possible candidates could be giants and fey (both from Grondheim), or even lupin and rakasta. It's maybe even possible that humanoids from Urzud roam this far south - though probably not in force.
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Outer Being
Posts: 3230
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Gender: male
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:35 pm

On the matter of vegetation (or lack thereof) in Darokin in BC 2300, I think we could have grassland near the Streel, which then becomes poor grazing land, mixed with some patches of desert (sandy and rocky). I don't think we should have a Ylaruam-style vast expanse of sand.
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!

User avatar
Hugin
Messenger of Odin
Posts: 4154
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:34 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:On the matter of vegetation (or lack thereof) in Darokin in BC 2300, I think we could have grassland near the Streel, which then becomes poor grazing land, mixed with some patches of desert (sandy and rocky). I don't think we should have a Ylaruam-style vast expanse of sand.
This is exactly what I had in mind. The land will be more fertile near the river, without question.
chimpman wrote:On the other hand, if we want to make this a really barren area we could divert the Streel in some way. I'm just not sure what canon has to say about that river. Does anyone know when the earliest mention of the Streel is placed?
What if the Streel were to have entered the Amsorak in the northeast and exited out the southeast (keeping in mind the Amsorak extends farther east, say to the hills)? If the Streel followed those hills out of Glantri, basically 'hugging' just to the east of them all the way south to that first 'gap' in the hills, we could have it enter Lake Amsorak immediately on the other side of those hills. (Hope that made sense)

:idea: I just had a thought - could we set up a google doc image for the three of us to use as a sketch pad to mark ideas on?
Here's a second thought on this subject (made as I'm looking through some of the other nations in the 2300 BC era setting). What if there were already inhabitants in the region... and they weren't human. Possible candidates could be giants and fey (both from Grondheim), or even lupin and rakasta. It's maybe even possible that humanoids from Urzud roam this far south - though probably not in force.
That did cross my mind too. My only reservation with this is 'why would they be there?'. Unlike the modern Known World, there is still quite a bit of more desirable land that is not inhabited/claimed/defended. However, having some kind of non-human population (perhaps lupin?) along the northern stretch of the Streel between Glantri and Lake Amsorak could work out very well.

Another thought I'm toying with is having that lake in Ethengar bust through the broken lands region during the second cataclysm (1720 BC) and temporarily flooding that glassland desert. This could be tied directly with "Akkila-Khan invades and conquers the southern steppes of Ethengar" which also happens in 1720 BC. The flooding of the grasslands could bring nutrients and soil aiding the ground's fertility slightly. Then, as a result of the LRoF circa 1700 BC , the flow is redirected within the broken lands and joins up with the Steel River, creating the great river we have today.

Thoughts?

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:22 pm

Had to respond to this part first ;)
Hugin wrote:Another thought I'm toying with is having that lake in Ethengar bust through the broken lands region during the second cataclysm (1720 BC) and temporarily flooding that glassland desert. This could be tied directly with "Akkila-Khan invades and conquers the southern steppes of Ethengar" which also happens in 1720 BC. The flooding of the grasslands could bring nutrients and soil aiding the ground's fertility slightly. Then, as a result of the LRoF circa 1700 BC , the flow is redirected within the broken lands and joins up with the Steel River, creating the great river we have today.
:mrgreen: I'd been planning something very similar for the LRoF (which I imagine will alter the terrain you see in BC 2300 making it more closely resemble that of the modern day terrain. I pretty much figured such a blast would either vaporize the lake or cause it to disappear as it flows into underground passages. I actually like splitting this out into multiple events though, and your suggestion for tying this to the quakes in BC 1720 (and Akkila's invasion) is pretty brilliant!

I've got some problems with moving all that water south through those mountains the way the map is drawn no though. I might be able to reposition things to make it more believable. Another option is to just have the quakes alter the flow of the Streel itself, sending it on a winding trip through the Alfheimer plains (which I'm calling the Pampa Ichu in this period), and making things a bit greener. This could actually happen in BC 1750, which gives the land 30 years to become more productive before Akilla decides to invade in BC 1720.

Anyway, I really like this idea, and I think we'll find some variation that is going to work well!

Hugin wrote:What if the Streel were to have entered the Amsorak in the northeast and exited out the southeast (keeping in mind the Amsorak extends farther east, say to the hills)? If the Streel followed those hills out of Glantri, basically 'hugging' just to the east of them all the way south to that first 'gap' in the hills, we could have it enter Lake Amsorak immediately on the other side of those hills. (Hope that made sense)
Yeah, makes total sense. I like this idea. It'll definitely help give the area a different shape from the modern era, which is something I'm shooting for. I'll change the river so that it hugs the mountains/hills on its journey south and eventually empties in the Amsorak.

By the way, the Inti name for the Amsorak is Amaruyaku - which literally means "snake water". I chose it (using real Inca words) because it sounds the most like Amsorak, but if we can get the lake to wind and curve like a snake, so much the better.
Hugin wrote::idea: I just had a thought - could we set up a google doc image for the three of us to use as a sketch pad to mark ideas on?
I can just pull the png from the website and post it on Google Docs. Never done that before, but we can give it a try. I'll post here when it's ready.
Hugin wrote:That did cross my mind too. My only reservation with this is 'why would they be there?'. Unlike the modern Known World, there is still quite a bit of more desirable land that is not inhabited/claimed/defended. However, having some kind of non-human population (perhaps lupin?) along the northern stretch of the Streel between Glantri and Lake Amsorak could work out very well.
As for the giants - they are being pushed from their ancestral lands by the dwarves (and possibly also the Antalians) up north. Most of the central mountains (through Darokin, Rockhome, Northern Reaches, etc) would have been (and many still are) part of the nation of Grondheim. I just can't see the giants or fey of that nation having any desire to move onto a flat grassland.

The more I think of it though, the more I like the lupin angle. The SC mentions that the Yazak Steppes are their ancestral homes, and the land we're talking about on this part of Brun (I imagine) would be very similar. It's possible that the lupin culture expanded out here all the way from Yazak - especially if the Sindi region/Sea of Fire is more habitable in this time period.

In addition I'm already planning on adding lupin to the fringe of Taymoran society as well - so they're going to be in the area anyway.
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Hugin
Messenger of Odin
Posts: 4154
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:27 pm

Chimpman wrote: :mrgreen: I'd been planning something very similar for the LRoF (which I imagine will alter the terrain you see in BC 2300 making it more closely resemble that of the modern day terrain. I pretty much figured such a blast would either vaporize the lake or cause it to disappear as it flows into underground passages. I actually like splitting this out into multiple events though, and your suggestion for tying this to the quakes in BC 1720 (and Akkila's invasion) is pretty brilliant!
Thanks! There's no way that amount of water could be vapourized but I had thought about it flowing into the broken lands region and underground (helping to form the region's caverns). The downside to using that is that it then has to be reversed to allow the river to stay on the surface and connect to the Streel. As for going through the mountains, I had in my mind deep canyons ripped open during the cataclysm.
Another option is to just have the quakes alter the flow of the Streel itself, sending it on a winding trip through the Alfheimer plains (which I'm calling the Pampa Ichu in this period), and making things a bit greener. This could actually happen in BC 1750, which gives the land 30 years to become more productive before Akilla decides to invade in BC 1720.
This could work as well. It kind of reminds me too that the Streel should have changed courses many times in its 4000 year history. Looking at any slowish moving river will show that.
By the way, the Inti name for the Amsorak is Amaruyaku - which literally means "snake water". I chose it (using real Inca words) because it sounds the most like Amsorak, but if we can get the lake to wind and curve like a snake, so much the better.
Hmm... time for a legend about a great 'lake monster'? Perhaps an Immortal manifested him/herself there? *brain-wheels a-churning*
The more I think of it though, the more I like the lupin angle. The SC mentions that the Yazak Steppes are their ancestral homes, and the land we're talking about on this part of Brun (I imagine) would be very similar. It's possible that the lupin culture expanded out here all the way from Yazak - especially if the Sindi region/Sea of Fire is more habitable in this time period. In addition I'm already planning on adding lupin to the fringe of Taymoran society as well - so they're going to be in the area anyway.
I had a lupin connection in this region quite some time ago involving them with both the Azcan/Atruaghins and the Nithians. I believe it was a post on the WotC boards that may now be lost unfortunately. Anyway, this should work out well.

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:50 pm

Hugin wrote:Thanks! There's no way that amount of water could be vapourized but I had thought about it flowing into the broken lands region and underground (helping to form the region's caverns). The downside to using that is that it then has to be reversed to allow the river to stay on the surface and connect to the Streel. As for going through the mountains, I had in my mind deep canyons ripped open during the cataclysm.
Hmmm... just brainstorming here - what if those canyons that were "ripped open" in BC 1720 also open up something that was long sealed underground - the Blackmoorian device that causes the LRoF. Once these new passages are created, elves can find the device and will end up triggering it some 20 years later to cause the LRoF.
Hugin wrote:
By the way, the Inti name for the Amsorak is Amaruyaku - which literally means "snake water". I chose it (using real Inca words) because it sounds the most like Amsorak, but if we can get the lake to wind and curve like a snake, so much the better.
Hmm... time for a legend about a great 'lake monster'? Perhaps an Immortal manifested him/herself there? *brain-wheels a-churning*
:twisted:
Hugin wrote:I had a lupin connection in this region quite some time ago involving them with both the Azcan/Atruaghins and the Nithians. I believe it was a post on the WotC boards that may now be lost unfortunately. Anyway, this should work out well.
The nice thing about this is that if we come up with something for lupins living on the Darokin/Alfheim plains we can easily port that culture over to the SC as well.
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Hugin
Messenger of Odin
Posts: 4154
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:24 pm

Chimpman wrote:Hmmm... just brainstorming here - what if those canyons that were "ripped open" in BC 1720 also open up something that was long sealed underground - the Blackmoorian device that causes the LRoF. Once these new passages are created, elves can find the device and will end up triggering it some 20 years later to cause the LRoF.
Brilliant! Makes perfect sense.
Hugin wrote:I had a lupin connection in this region quite some time ago involving them with both the Azcan/Atruaghins and the Nithians. I believe it was a post on the WotC boards that may now be lost unfortunately. Anyway, this should work out well.
The nice thing about this is that if we come up with something for lupins living on the Darokin/Alfheim plains we can easily port that culture over to the SC as well.
I had a connection (can't remember the source of it though) where lupins were a subject race to the Oltecs and Azcans when they colonized the Black Mountain/Gulf of Hule region. There was also a connection between the Nithians and lupins in a similar fashion, but again I can't remember how it all worked exactly. I do remember that the Hutaaka were created as a replacement/substitute for the lupins. Oh, and I think the gnolls were also created along these same lines. Basically, I contribute the 'dog-headed man' (and subsequently the various animal-headed man) concept to the Nithians discovering the lupins.

Well, I think that's how it went. I really wish I could find that post...

User avatar
Hugin
Messenger of Odin
Posts: 4154
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:48 pm

Found it!
Hugin; from the WoTC forum wrote:"I wonder if the Minotaurs are another one of animal-headed human creations/modifications. In another thread I surmised that it was the Azcan-Lupin interaction that birthed the animal headed fascination."

Continuing my train of thought that began at work, and now that I've had a chance to look up some material, I was thinking that when the Manscorpions were driven from the Savage Coast by the Nithians and into the Orc's Head Peninsula, Minotaurs were discovered by the Nithians and brought back home.

These were descendants of the cursed followers of Gildesh who had fled Nimmur. The Nithian culture is fascinated with animal-headed humanoids and naturally brought many of these new creatures home to determine their significance.

Azcan-Lupin connection: After the GRoF, many Azcans and their Coyotl lupin slaves migrate east from the Sind Desert region to the KW area. Some take refuge in a massive plateau (becoming the Atruaghins) while others continue on to settle in the Nithian basin and merge with the Neathar arriving there. As the Nithian culture develops, the lupins end up being servants only to the rulers, leaders and the wealthy, and are carefully breed to reflect their station. The lupin are educated and revered despite the fact they are basically slaves.

Unfortunately, by the time Nithian explorers bring Minotaurs back home around 700 BC, the Nithian culture has began it's moral decline and the lupin servants (now known as Hutaaka) are unvalued and mistreated. Many escape, band together and flee to the southwest to create their own civilization.

The Minotaurs on the other hand are quickly recognized as formidable combatants and are used as guards and shook troops. They find themselves shipped nearly throughout the Nithian Empire, however, their numbers are never large. This gives rise to various results such as legends in Vestland, now extinct minotaurs in Thyatis, populations on the southern Isle of Dawn, Northern Davania, and a cult that develops on the small island of Vacros. Minotaurs also end up in Milenia and are also brought to Minaea on Skothar during their migration and subsequent trading.

Finally, the midlands are also populated by minotaurs that fled Nimmur in 700 BC.

Any holes?
There will need to be obvious changes made but it should still work in general.

User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Outer Being
Posts: 3230
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Gender: male
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:55 pm

Chimpman wrote:By the way, the Inti name for the Amsorak is Amaruyaku - which literally means "snake water". I chose it (using real Inca words) because it sounds the most like Amsorak, but if we can get the lake to wind and curve like a snake, so much the better.
This is a great way to explain the origin of the lake's name, which doesn't make any sense when you look at current Darokinian place names (Ardelphia, Corunglain, etc). The Streel is probably a bastardisation of a different name, too.
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:12 pm

Hugin wrote:Found it!

snip...

There will need to be obvious changes made but it should still work in general.
Yeah, in general I think having the lupins and Azcans migrate into the area at or around the same time makes a lot of sense. That puts them both in the area as early as BC 2800 (possibly a bit earlier), when the Azcans (at least) took refuge under the Great Plateau. I'm not sure what the lupins would have done - some may have also found refuge underground, while others could have been left to their own devices in the post GRoF world.

The minotaurs I have other plans for - especially considering that our Taymora will be Minoan based (and that the Minoans have a thing for bulls). I have plans to bring them onto the scene much earlier and integrate them into Taymoran society sometime around BC 2000 (shortly after their creation). Of course that doesn't stop the Nithians from integrating them into their society later on. The only difference is where the minos come from.. ...Perhaps the Nithians learn of the manscorpions from the minotaurs in the first place. They could be a factor in driving the manscorpions back to their ancestral lands, putting them in conflict with the Nimmurian enduks. Anyway, this is probably a topic best left for another thread.
Seer of Yhog wrote:
Chimpman wrote:By the way, the Inti name for the Amsorak is Amaruyaku - which literally means "snake water". I chose it (using real Inca words) because it sounds the most like Amsorak, but if we can get the lake to wind and curve like a snake, so much the better.
This is a great way to explain the origin of the lake's name, which doesn't make any sense when you look at current Darokinian place names (Ardelphia, Corunglain, etc). The Streel is probably a bastardisation of a different name, too.
Cool. If there are any other "outcast" place names, let's list them here. We might be able to tie them in with Inti language/history somehow.
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:19 am

Ok, I've updated the map with some of the suggestions given by Hugin. Tell me what you think.
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Hugin
Messenger of Odin
Posts: 4154
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:19 pm

Chimpman wrote:Ok, I've updated the map with some of the suggestions given by Hugin. Tell me what you think.
Here's my first criticism; I love it! ;)

Re: Lupins - I agree with your assessment, they came with the Azcans but most managed to free themselves and separate from them, most likely heading more north in the direction of Glantri.

Re: Minotaurs - Definitely best as a separate thread. They were mentioned simply because the thread from which those thoughts came from was regarding the pockets of wide-spread populations of Minotaurs; how they ending up in so many different and distant locations.
If there are any other "outcast" place names, let's list them here. We might be able to tie them in with Inti language/history somehow.
Definitely something the GazH project would be interested in! :ugeek:

User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Outer Being
Posts: 3230
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Gender: male
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:55 pm

Here's a quick run-through of some Darokinian place names that need some explanation, IMO:

- Akesoli (no etymological link to other Daro cities)

- Fort Nar (ditto - other forts have generally English names)

- Razak's Rock (who was Razak? I think it would be a good name for an orcish warlord who was infamous, and died there)

- Greenleaf Island (it makes sense, but why is it named Greenleaf when the island doesn't appear green?)

- Malpheggi (I don't think we ever derived the name)

- Mond River (most of the other rivers - Highlake, Helleck, Greyhare - are English-sounding, and the Elstrick is close enough to Elstrich that the name has some logic to it).
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!

User avatar
Ashtagon
Hierarch
Posts: 3745
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 5:45 pm
Gender: female
Location: Hillvale, Isle of Dawn
Contact:

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Ashtagon » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:03 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:- Greenleaf Island (it makes sense, but why is it named Greenleaf when the island doesn't appear green?)
Greenleaf (possibly a nickname) was an elf adventurer who performed a notable quest on the island. The island was subsequently renamed in his memory. Legend has it that his grave is somewhere on the island, although the exact location has never been determined. Another legend has it that upon his death, he was compelled to replace the undead guardian whom he defeated.

ETA: Yet another legend has it that, knowing he was cursed to become undead, he returned to the island where he made his name, in order to live out his days in isolation far from civilisation.
- Malpheggi (I don't think we ever derived the name)
The various Malpheggi swamps were all named after a single tribe of lizardmen that once held a large kingdom in the area, before becoming little more than a cultural memory.
Emma Rome, otherwise known as Ashtagon
Image
Overall site admin for The Piazza. My moderator colour is pink!

User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Outer Being
Posts: 3230
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Gender: male
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Outer World: Intua 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:06 pm

These work. I especially like the first one!
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!

Post Reply

Return to “Geographical Mapping”