Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

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Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:07 am

Maps

Map of Adhuze, 8 miles per hex by John Calvin, July 2010 (Work In Progress)
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This map of Adhuza in 2300 BC covers portions of current day (1000 AC) Sea of Dread and Thanegioth Archipelago.


Sources:

Unofficial Maps:Physical Map of Southeastern Brun (c. BC 2000) (2002) by Geoff Gander, Map of Southeastern Brun: 2500 BC (2003) by James Mishler, Taymora BC 2300 with cities by John Calvin.

Notes on XXX
To Do List
  1. Continue to name all major geographical features.
References
  1. Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex
  2. Historical Mapping in the KW and Sea of Dread
  3. [Hollow Moon] Kopru Comfort
  4. Hollow Moon, Aranea vs Kopru
Thanks to: Thorfinn Tait, for providing some wonderful graphics to use in all of our mapping projects.
Last edited by Chimpman on Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:19 pm

A very promising start! i notice that the Isle of the Makers has been clearly marked, so I suppose this is yet another subtle hint that I'm on the hook for something... ;)
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:40 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:A very promising start! i notice that the Isle of the Makers has been clearly marked, so I suppose this is yet another subtle hint that I'm on the hook for something... ;)
:twisted:

Additional notes on the map: Most of the island names are taken directly from the X8(?) back cover, so those names may or may not apply in this time period. Many reef hexes have been placed (and many more yet to come) although not all of them have been cleaned up at this point. My intention is to clean all of those up at some point in the near future.

Also, I've worked up a unique hex icon for this map. A cookie for the first person to find it and identify what it is.
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Ashtagon » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:47 pm

Chimpman wrote:Also, I've worked up a unique hex icon for this map. A cookie for the first person to find it and identify what it is.
Dragon fangs?
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:48 pm

I'll take a stab...those are giant seashell cities/towers, just like in Yavdlom. So, are we implying that Adhuza originated the practice?
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:12 pm

Yep, it's the Dragon's Fangs and they are indeed meant to be seashell towers (just like in Yavdlom). I'll split the cookie between the two of you ;)
Seer of Yhog wrote:So, are we implying that Adhuza originated the practice?
Well... possibly. The idea I had actually stemmed from a conversation that Hugin and I had a while back (I think it was here) about the name of the Sea of Dread coming from the number of reefs from Ierendi to the Thanegioth and all of the trouble they would cause to sailors trying to get past them. I think Hugin found a reference in one of the X modules about the Ierendi being the only ones who could navigate those reefs with much success. Anyway, I figured if that is the case in the modern era, then so much more so back in BC 2300... and of course the kopru must benefit from this in some way!

So yesterday while I was half asleep on the couch, I came up with the idea that the kopru (through their mermen servants) set up a couple of seashell towers at the southern entrance to the Dragon's Maw. They would be visible by day (but not lit at night - to make finding them hard in the dark, and to prevent ships from slipping by the kopru unnoticed). Lighthouses along the eastern edge of the Maw provide sailors with a means of navigating through the dangerous waters, but wouldn't help sailors cross through the western reefs (bypassing the kopru). Adhuza would of course charge some fee (applied at the towers) for crossing through the Maw, but the real purpose is to give the kopru the chance to control anyone important on board the vessels passing through here.

[As an aside, I'm toying with the idea of placing two more towers to guard the eastern channel between the eastern reefs and Adhuza.]

Whether the practice of raising the seashell towers comes from Adhuza, or from the undersea kingdoms that may have proceeded it, I'm not sure.
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:27 pm

Chimpman wrote:Whether the practice of raising the seashell towers comes from Adhuza, or from the undersea kingdoms that may have proceeded it, I'm not sure.
Very nice so far. By the way, I'm not sure who the inhabitants of Adhuza are. I'm hoping it isn't a human nation actually.

I had a similar thought while reading up on the Isle of Dread, what if the spiral towers were of kopru origin and design?

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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:38 pm

Hugin wrote:
Chimpman wrote:Whether the practice of raising the seashell towers comes from Adhuza, or from the undersea kingdoms that may have proceeded it, I'm not sure.
Very nice so far. By the way, I'm not sure who the inhabitants of Adhuza are. I'm hoping it isn't a human nation actually.
At the moment, Adhuza isn't well defined. It comes from the Adhuza Dominarchy created by Sharon Dornhoff for her Hollow Moon setting, and could best be described as a conglomerate of different kingdoms (all secretly controlled by the Kopru Dominarchy). The HM setting has them controlling humans, dwarves, mermen, and even minotaurs (and possibly others, but my memory fades). Humans and mermen are definitely part of the Dominarchy at this point. The kopru also have dwarven followers in the Shimmering Lands, and quite possibly control other dwarves on the southern tip of Skothar.

What I'd like to do (and one reason I began the History of Aran thread) is to tie the history of the aranea to Adhuza as well. Since we know there are populations of aranea and phanaton on the IoDread in modern times, it is possible they existed on the island in the distant past.

So here is my (tentative) take on the peoples of Adhuza:
Humans (Oltec)
Aranea (possible offshoot settlers from Aran who stopped here when others migrated to the SC)
Phanaton (brought as servants of the aranea?)
Mermen (Twaelar)
Shark-kin
Sea Giants?
Kopru - These would be the masters of the empire, but I think would stay in the shadows. Most outsiders (and even most of the people of Adhuza) would probably never even have heard of these creatures. But they run the show.
Hugin wrote:I had a similar thought while reading up on the Isle of Dread, what if the spiral towers were of kopru origin and design?
It's very possible that they are. I like the idea.

EDIT:
I've added 2 more links to the first post, referencing kopru/Hollow Moon discussions that may be relevant to Adhuza.
[Hollow Moon] Kopru Comfort
Hollow Moon, Aranea vs Kopru
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:42 pm

Sounds good so far.

Where does the name "Adhuza" come from; what is its meaning? Is it a name for a common region? Culture? If the only thing that ties the "Empire" together is the secretive control of the Kopru, how do the 'controlees' know the empire exists?

(Sorry, just trying to wrap my head around thing!)

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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:45 pm

Hugin wrote:Sounds good so far.

Where does the name "Adhuza" come from; what is its meaning? Is it a name for a common region? Culture? If the only thing that ties the "Empire" together is the secretive control of the Kopru, how do the 'controlees' know the empire exists?

(Sorry, just trying to wrap my head around thing!)
It's no problem... I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole thing too ;) I'll try to answer what I can about it, but I really suggest going through the Kopru Comfort thread, as that contains many of Sharon's original thoughts on the nation. Of course her Adhuza stems from a later date - sometime after the sinking of Taymora, but I think we can use a good portion of what she's written.

The name Adhuza is a derivation of a long lost immortals from kopru legends - Adhuza M'Thaz and O'Hmarn. The kopru don't actually worship these immortals, but they have co-opted the philosophy that they espoused for their own.

The control by the kopru is secret, however there would be visible figureheads representing government officials. After all its much easier to control an individual who himself has control over thousands of others rather than trying to control thousands of thralls at one time. Sharon broke the empire up into different satraps and modeled it after the Persian Empire (but with an amoral twist, as she puts it). One thing she talked about a lot was that the individual nations that made up the empire existed before the kopru exerted their control... however these nations would never have "worked together" without the kopru in the background pulling all the strings.

There is probably an emperor of Adhuza somewhere (it would be interesting to figure out who this is and what original nation he/she would be from), that acts as the titular ruler of all Adhuza (or at least appears to take that role from the outside)... but the real rule lies in the hands of individual kopru. The kopru are in turn divided up in a hierarchy, where the topmost kopru is the one controlling the most or most important thralls, and his subordinates controlling lesser thralls. Each satrap would be the dominion of a kopru hierarchy, with each of them in turn reporting to the kopru queen.

That's all I have from memory. I'm going to need to go back and re-read all of that material myself in order to try and extract the core essence of what Adhuza is.
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:39 pm

IIRC, the notion of Adhuza as a state also existed across time periods, too. So, the kopru might control one kingdom in Davania, expand it to cover Thanegioth, lose the Davanian territory for whatever reason, but the core institutions and government processes among the kopru themselves remained unchanged. Thus, multiple states might technically be part of Adhuza and not actually be aware of the fact - all they realise is that they might be friendlier with some nations than others.
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:53 pm

Thanks guys, that helps.

So this 'empire' could really be simply a "Kingdom of Kopru" which rules (via manipulative control of the rulers of) many smaller kingdom/city-states. I like it.

Just a personal preference however; I would keep those other kingdoms small and (relatively) primitive. This would merely be to avoid having so many 'advanced' and powerful nations prior to the rise of Nithia. If there are too many nations of size and might, Nithia's development loses significant. That's in my opinion anyway; YMMV.

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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:38 pm

This is worth dredging up from the Kopru Comfort thread, IMO:
Surprisingly, the humans they subjugated proved more useful than their inherently-corrupt
nature might suggest. By dominating the minds of local leaders, and maintaining that
control over the shoft-lived dryskins' royal dynasties, the kopru could milk their surface
civilizations' riches and manpower. Not only that, but human wizards' knowledge could be
integrated with kopru mind-control abilities, creating magical conduits for kopru
domination-power. That "cursed" statue of a kopru from X1 wasn't cursed: it was a TOOL, once
used to maintain control over humans living too far from volcanic steam-vents for the kopru
to personally supervise their thralls!

No longer limited by the range of their personal domination-powers, kopru could dispatch
human thralls to "recruit" new servants in inland communities, or merfolk statue-bearers
to spread the masters' influence across the seas. Taking advantage of the lack of
range-limitations for controling their mental puppets (in OD&D; for 3E games, DMs should allow
kopru to take feats that enhance their mind-control powers), a half-dozen kopru lounging
in a Vulcanian geyser could reign over an entire small nation in far-off Brun or Skothar,
"switching off" between thralls merely by tricking or forcing new victims into touching
the conduits ... which, BTW, only looked like kopru in places where they ruled
semi-openly; in most subjugated "colonies", the conduits looked innocuous and only the thralls,
themselves, knew the truth.
I think there would have been temples or shrines scattered throughout Adhuza, each of which contained a kopru statuette tended by a handful of priests. Commoners would go there to worship, and in doing so they were brainwashed anew. So, the temples would have been a form of relay station, reinforcing the kopru's lines of control.

The palaces of the various satraps could have been massive mind-control stations, disguised as buildings. Think of them as local power stations, each controlling the network of statues in that domain. If you destroyed the palace, you would knock out all the statues magically connected to it. This arrangement might have been the real reason for having strapies in the first place - it was nothing more than a means of efficiently maintaining the mind control system, so that the loss of one centre would not wipe out the whole system.

When the dominion collapsed, the people could have risen up against the priests (as tools of the regime), destroying many temples in the process. In doing so, they unknowingly weakened the kopru's control.

Just a thought.
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:49 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:This is worth dredging up from the Kopru Comfort thread, IMO:
Absolutely! Thanks!
I think there would have been temples or shrines scattered throughout Adhuza, each of which contained a kopru statuette tended by a handful of priests. Commoners would go there to worship, and in doing so they were brainwashed anew. So, the temples would have been a form of relay station, reinforcing the kopru's lines of control.
I had the exact same thoughts as I read about "area 32: Main Chamber";
"In the center of the wall opposite the entrance is a carved face that fills the area from the floor to the ceiling. It looks like a human or humanoid creature with its mouth agape. The carving has been cut and defaced, making it difficult to determine what kind of creature it once depicted."

My thinking is that this was a kopru face until the rebellion and the natives attempted to 'reshape' it into a human face.

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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Cthulhudrew » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:14 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:IIRC, the notion of Adhuza as a state also existed across time periods, too. So, the kopru might control one kingdom in Davania, expand it to cover Thanegioth, lose the Davanian territory for whatever reason, but the core institutions and government processes among the kopru themselves remained unchanged.
Interesting. I know that at one point I had theorized about a Kopru Chronarchy that existed across time (run by a group of kopru who had discovered and utilized the then-functional time travel device hidden beneath the Serpent Peninsula). Klarkaszh the Corrupter was one of the Chronarchs, but the Immortals eventually arranged for the time travel device to be damaged because of the kopru's heedless tinkering with space/time, and thus brought the Chronarchy to its end. I don't know if Sharon ever used any of that information in her Dominarchy writings (I'm not sure how much if any I ever really discussed it outside of my own imaginings for that matter, save for the brief mention in Klarkaszh's entry).

In any event, if anyone thinks its a good idea and wants to run with it, feel free. I've never developed it as much as I'd have liked, primarily because I get too bogged down with the concept of temporal paradoxes and the like. :P

(Though I have had an epic story in mind for a long time about the origins of the Kopru Chronarchy, the history of the Brute-Men and the Serpent Peninsula, the Kopru Empire under the sea and the origins of merfolk, the Carnifex Tyranny in Davania, and the ascension of a fledgling Immortal. I really need to write that one someday.)
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Hugin » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:56 pm

Cthulhudrew wrote:Interesting. I know that at one point I had theorized about a Kopru Chronarchy that existed across time (run by a group of kopru who had discovered and utilized the then-functional time travel device hidden beneath the Serpent Peninsula).
Hmm... Another connection between the kopru and the spiral towers?

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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:30 pm

Cthulhudrew wrote:(Though I have had an epic story in mind for a long time about the origins of the Kopru Chronarchy, the history of the Brute-Men and the Serpent Peninsula, the Kopru Empire under the sea and the origins of merfolk, the Carnifex Tyranny in Davania, and the ascension of a fledgling Immortal. I really need to write that one someday.)
Speaking from personal experience, I'd recommend you go for it. My original gameplan was to try to get published after I retired, but personal events in 2007 led me to decide to go for my dream now, and if I make it I'll quit my day job. I haven't got there yet, but I'm much happier with my life now.
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:34 pm

The benfits of being a packrat - here is an email Andrew sent in 2000 - it's a bit long, but relevant to the discussion, I think:

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andrew Theisen
>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 4:31 PM
>To: Aaron English; [me]; George Hrabovsky
>Subject: Kopru Chronarchy
>
>
>All right- this has been sitting in the back of my mind for weeks now, but
>it's starting to come together. Thought I'd run my initial ideas for the Kopru
>Chronarchy past you guys.
>
>Basically, it's based on the tenet that the Kopru utilized the "time artifact"
>underneath the Serpent Peninsula to establish a trans-chronal empire. The
>Immortals eventually broke the artifact, and the Kopru became a distant
>memory... in many different eras.
>
>Anyway, I've got a few such eras listed in the preliminary timeline below, but
>it can obviously stand to be fleshed out quite a bit. It also deals (finally,
>I hope) with the "true" origins of the Karimari.
>
>I've also taken the stance that their time travels didn't really alter
>history... sort of. Which is to say that they didn't alter their own destiny
>(of being destroyed). Why not? For a couple of reasons-
>
>1) The Kopru arrogance. It simply never occurred to them that Immortals, or
>Outer Beings, or whatever, would dare interfere with their race.
>
>2) The eras the Kopru establish themselves in are eras in which there is no
>Kopru Chronarchy (why would they need to set up in a time when they already
>hold sway after all?) This ties in with #3-
>
>3) The peoples the Kopru enslave are mostly primitive with little or no
>written histories. Thus, the Kopru wouldn't be able to determine precisely
>what happened to their Chronarchies of past eras and thus prevent the
>inevitable downfall of their hegemony.
>
>also 4) the Kopru were never really all that concerned with anything except
>immediate gratification anyway.
>
>One other note- bear in mind that, due to physiological concerns, the Kopru
>Chronarchy couldn't ever really establish itself too far outside of the
>oceanic regions- hence, I've limited them to the Serpent Peninsula/Thanegioth
>Regions. They could establish themselves nearer to the coasts of the Known
>World, but I don't have any dates for such a thing as yet.
>
>Open to suggestions, hints, additions, etc. Also- a possibility is that the
>Kopru Chronarchy will pop up in the modern world- advance scouts from the
>height of the Empire!
>
>Here's the timeline-
>
>BC 7150: The Kopru overlords in Va'ath-Zhemoth discover a powerful artifact in
>the midst of the Serpent Peninsula. They begin to study the artifact, which
>seems to have power over time itself.
>
>BC 7100: Shipments from the islands stop reaching Carnifex ports in
>Y'hegg-T'uhath and other regions completely. Concluding that the domesticated
>dinosaurs guarding the farms had rampaged and wiped out the troglodytes, the
>Y'hog Carnifex soon forget about the islands. (DW)
>
> Unknown to the Carnifex, the Kopru have utilized the powers of the time
>artifact to send themselves into the future, to an era where the Carnifex no
>longer exist. There, they will begin to establish their own empire,
>independent of the influence of their "lesser" allies.
>
> Abandoned by their Carnifex and Kopru overlords, the troglodytes
> migrate to
>other lands, seeking true freedom from. Many sail north to Brun, their
>descendants becoming the troglodytes known to most denizens of the Known
>World. Others sail south to Davania, offering their services as freemen to the
>Lhomarrians. Others turn to piracy. A fourth group migrates to the eastern
>islands in the archipelago, and tries to build their own civilization. (DW)
>
>BC 6500: The Kopru reappear on Mystara from the past. Revisiting the ruins of
>their former homes, they once more begin the process of rebuilding their
>empire on the Serpent Peninsula.
>
>BC 6450: A Kopru uses the artifact to travel forward in time. He returns with
>news of a potential new servitor race for his people.
>
> Soon thereafter, the Kopru begin bringing Tanagoro slaves back from the
>future.
>
>BC 6000: After a long study and debate about the Kopru Chronarchy, the
>Immortals decide that the violation of the Temporal Prime cannot be allowed to
>continue. They cause earthquakes in the Serpent Peninsula that damage and bury
>the time artifact.
>
> Cut off from the other eras of the Chronarch dominion, the Kopru struggle
>to maintain control of their empire. The Tanagoro slaves revolt, and retreat
>inland where the Kopru cannot follow. Millenia of interbreeding cause their
>growth to become stunted and for them to lose most memories of their former
>enslavement; images of tentacled evil creatures still persist in racial
>memory. These Tanagoro become the ancestors of the Karimari.
>
>BC 3000: Great Rain of Fire. Climactic changes in the Serpent Peninsula
>region, combined with the loss of contact with the Chronarchy due to the
>damage to the artifact, results in the collapse of Kopru hegemony.
>
>BC 2200: A Kopru emerges into the present while on a time travel expedition.
>He returns to the past with news of the newly arrived Tanagoro settlers.
>
>BC 2100: Having given the Tanagoro colonists time to establish themselves and
>reproduce, the Kopru arrive from the past and begin to enslave them.
>
>BC 900: The Kopru Chronarchy conquers the islands of the eastern Thanegioth
>Archipelago, and enslaving the Milenian and Makai peoples in the region.
>
>BC 800: Prompted by their patron Immortals, the merrow of Twaelar wage a
>savage war against the Kopru Chronarchy in the Thanegioth Archipelago. Now cut
>off from contact with their fellows due to the destruction of the time
>artifact, the Kopru are left to fend for themselves. The merrow and the
>Kopru's human servitors clash in a period known as the Aquapopulous Wars. The
>wars end with the destruction of the Kopru hegemony (reduced to a single
>colony on the Isle of Dawn). The human cultures revert to stone-age ways, and
>are driven off to a small few islands in the region.
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:45 pm

Wow, there are a lot of ideas germinating in this thread. I'm going to pick a single topic to address first, and then move on to others in subsequent posts.

I like the idea of control statues... I think we're all thinking along similar lines with that one. One question that this raises though (and that I think was alluded to earlier in this thread), is what does that mean for the actual national borders that get drawn up? We know that Adhuza is an amalgamation of several subject nations all under the kopru control... but does this amalgamation have a visible figurehead, or not?

1) Do the nations of Adhuza refer to themselves as such? Or are some subject nations not even aware that they are part of the empire? How would the borders be drawn on the map above?

2) Is there a centralized Adhuzan figurehead ruler? Or does each nation see themselves as an independent entity? [Answer probably depends on the answer above.]

3) Do the kopru reveal themselves to others, or are they always hiding in the shadows?

My own personal take would be (if we are treating Adhuza like M-Persia), that there is some centralized figurehead ruler referred to as the King/Emperor of Adhuza. The core subject nations would all pay lip service to this figurehead, and regard he/she/it as their ultimate ruler. Other nations (newer acquisitions) may be under kopru control to one degree or another, but would only be pulled under the "Adhuzan Umbrella" after kopru control has been thoroughly solidified. The kopru themselves may be visible to thralls/subjects in their innermost sanctums, but otherwise would be unknown (even to the undersea races).

As far as drawing borders go, I'm thinking that each satrap should be drawn with the thinner (inside border) and the nation of Adhuza (encompassing all of the satrapies) be outlined with the thick border. As far as the satrapies that make up the nation, here are my tentative thoughts:
Oltecs - This would encompass at least the western portion of the super-IoDread.
Aranea - This would encompass Spider Isle, portions of the central norther IoDread, and everything in between. Phanaton may be included within this satrap, possibly not earning their own.
Twaelar - The Sea of Dread directly north of the IoDread. This should include the deeper waters.
Shark-kin - The shallower portions of the Sea of Dread, as well as possibly the island chain leading up to Brun. The shark-kin need lots of small islands as breeding grounds.
Sea Giants - Perhaps the deepest portion of the Sea of Dread?
Suthus - this may be a satrap in its own rights. Not quite sure how to include this city, but I really think it should be part of Adhuza.
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:10 pm

I agree with most of what you say here. I'd also have arrows pointing south, with the caption "Southern Satrapies".
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:29 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:I agree with most of what you say here.
:twisted: How about the parts you don't agree with...
Seer of Yhog wrote:I'd also have arrows pointing south, with the caption "Southern Satrapies".
Yeah, this is a good idea. I get the feeling that Adhuza needs to be more like Dawn of the Empires rather than a standard Gaz. As far as the maps are concerned, I think to get an overview of the whole nation we're going to need to zoom out a bit... at least to 24mph... possibly to 72mph. Here are some more questions:

1) Regarding the southern satrapies, how many should there be, and where would they be located? What other races/nations have fallen under the dominance of the kopru and should be listed under the umbrella of Adhuza during this time period?

2) If there is a figurehead emperor, who (or what) is he? What race and what nation does he hail from?

3) How cosmopolitan are the kingdoms of Adhuza? Would races from one kingdom be allowed to travel freely throughout the lands, or would they be more insular? What would the kopru desire? [FWIF, I like the idea of a cosmopolitan Adhuza, but I just don't know if it makes sense or not.]
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:35 am

Now for comments about the Chronarchy - which I love! Since I've been basing most of my thoughts and ideas on Sharon's original work, I'd have to tweak the timeline a bit to get everything to mesh together, but I don't think it's impossible to include both ideas. In fact I think that (especially if you are playing an undersea campaign ala PC3), chronomantic kopru make for perfect internal villains to the setting.

The Artifact of Time has also been forefront in my mind, although originally I was thinking that it might be used against the kopru, rather than being used by them. The fact that it's an artifact of Time though, means we can do both :twisted:
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:39 am

Chimpman wrote:1) Regarding the southern satrapies, how many should there be, and where would they be located? What other races/nations have fallen under the dominance of the kopru and should be listed under the umbrella of Adhuza during this time period?
Not Varellya (it won't rise for several centuries), but perhaps the kopru influenced Manacapuru on the northern coast of Davania, or the Yasuko tribes (see the map from PWA II). Parts of Ochalea might also be under their influence, too. I see Varellya and the Lost Valley region falling under their sway after this version of Adhuza falls apart - the kopru simply moved their game further south, and kept playing.
Chimpman wrote:2) If there is a figurehead emperor, who (or what) is he? What race and what nation does he hail from?
Probably originally a leader of the dominant tribe or clan on the island - their people suddenly got blessed with wondrous knowledge from their "gods", which could fuel a rapid civilisation rise. The kopru are basically playing god, so I could see them doing this (imparting philosophy and magical knowledge, rather than technology at first - the tech knowledge would come later, as representatives from more advanced cultures were ensnared). But there should be a figurehead.
Chimpman wrote:3) How cosmopolitan are the kingdoms of Adhuza? Would races from one kingdom be allowed to travel freely throughout the lands, or would they be more insular? What would the kopru desire? [FWIF, I like the idea of a cosmopolitan Adhuza, but I just don't know if it makes sense or not.]
I think there would be free movement as long as the kopru thought it would enhance their game, and I don't see why they would oppose it. To them, all surface dwellers are corrupted, so they wouldn't see anything wrong in mixing everything up - it might even introduce the blessed water element into them, after all. It would all depend on the personality of the kopru controlling that given territory, I would think. That said, geographically isolated regions (i.e., the south) might be more insular only because of the distance. Commoners would view the far-off lands as distant colonies, but if the kopru decided that they needed more playing pieces down there, the great king might suddenly "decide" to send more people there to strengthen Adhuza's claims.
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Cthulhudrew » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:02 am

Wow- I'd completely fogotten that I'd even gotten that far with the Chronarchy stuff- not even sure I still have that original email. Thanks for posting that, Geoff!

One thing I'll add to my vision of the Chronarchy- the Chronarchs themselves were a smallish group of kopru that split from the main kopru empire (at the time located in the seas between Davania and the Serpent Peninsula), in order to establish themselves as powers separate from their imperial overlords. Essentially, then, a faction of the larger kopru empire, but one that established itself well outside of the confines of that original kopru dynasty.

The "first" kopru dynasts, as I saw them, developed in the seas near to the Carnifex holdings on the coasts of Davania. The eventually established themselves somewhat as go-betweens between the Carnifex of Davania and early (and ultimately abortive) efforts by the Carnifex to expand onto Brun via the Serpent Peninsula. The kopru, in turn, gained the usage of Carnifex servitors (notably Troglodytes) in order to establish their colony on the Serpent Peninsula. Eventually the kopru turned away from the trogs and enslaved groups of Brute-Men instead, finding it more rewarding and easier to control the mammalian mind over the reptilian one. (Those Brute-Men, as I had it, were themselves fleeing the ever expanding Neathar tribes). The Brute-Men servants were the ones who uncovered the time artifact while working for the kopru, and the kopru (with some outside help, though I'm not sure whether I will reveal where/who it was just yet, in case I actually do write that tale), were able to finally utilize the artifact, at least that particular faction. They end up disappearing into the time stream shortly after an early cataclysm devastates the kopru colony there.

I also really enjoyed the image of kopru being carried around in special "pots" full of heated water by their servants that Geoff came up with, and figure that's how they traveled on land.
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Re: Outer World: Adhuza 2300 BC, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:11 pm

Cthulhudrew wrote:Wow- I'd completely fogotten that I'd even gotten that far with the Chronarchy stuff- not even sure I still have that original email. Thanks for posting that, Geoff!
My pleasure! I have lots of cra- er....sweepings from the cutting room floor lying about - figuratively speaking. For example, I logged into my old Yahoo mail account, and checked the Drafts folder - there were notes for two spells I'd been working on! I'll have to finish them up.

On the other hand, I don't know what the fact of possessing 10-year old emails says about me... :P
Cthulhudrew wrote:I also really enjoyed the image of kopru being carried around in special "pots" full of heated water by their servants that Geoff came up with, and figure that's how they traveled on land.
It makes for a nice picture. I'd love to see someone draw that, actually.
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