Mapping Issues: Module Placement Labels

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Thorf
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Mapping Issues: Module Placement Labels

Post by Thorf » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:19 am

The Expert Set (1983) Known World map included various labels showing the locations of modules. I'd like to expand this to placing all the modules on First Era maps, and perhaps later to placing all the possible adventures on maps, regardless of their mapping era.

Raiding my old thread at the Wizards MMB, I came up with the following notes:

Notes on Module Placement in First Era maps - Basic Series
  1. B1 - the Expert Set (1983) Known World map has it marked north-north-east of Luln.
  2. B2 - the Expert Set (1983) Known World map has it marked near the Castellan Keep.
  3. B3 - the Expert Set (1983) Known World map has it marked in the hills of eastern Karameikos.
  4. B4 - the Expert Set (1983) Known World map has it marked along the trail west of Ylaruam.
  5. B5 -
  6. B6 - explicitly set in Specularum, Karameikos.
  7. B7 -
  8. B8 -
  9. B9 -
  10. B10 - should be placed in Karameikos, probably in the Lost Valley.
  11. B11 - should be placed in Karameikos.
  12. B12 - should be placed in Karameikos.
Notes on Module Placement in First Era maps - Expert Series
  1. X1 - this label should be added to the Isle of Dread. It was featured with an arrow pointing southwards from western Minrothad on the Expert Set (1983) Known World map.
  2. X2 - the location for X2 is marked on the Expert Set (1983) Known World map in Glantri, near the Broken Lands border. However, the premise of X2 is that wherever the PCs are, they are spirited away by the mists and end up in the "prison dimension" of Castle Amber. Therefore the adventure could start in any location, and this label is meaningless.
  3. X3 - should be placed in Rhoona in Vestland, where it is shown on the Expert Set (1983) Known World map.
  4. X4 - should be placed in Sind. On the Expert Set (1983) Known World map, X4 and X5 labels are located in a strange place, pointing in the wrong direction. They would have been better located in western Darokin, near Akesoli, and they should have pointed westwards towards Sind and Hule, instead of north-westwards into the wilderness beyond the Adri Varma Plateau.
  5. X5 - should be placed in Hule. On the Expert Set (1983) Known World map, X4 and X5 labels are located in a strange place, pointing in the wrong direction. They would have been better located in western Darokin, near Akesoli, and they should have pointed westwards towards Sind and Hule, instead of north-westwards into the wilderness beyond the Adri Varma Plateau.
  6. X6 - should be placed on the Serpent Peninsula.
  7. X7 - a label could be added in the Sea of Dread south of Minrothad.
  8. X8 - should be placed on Teki-Nura-Ria southeast of Thyatis.
  9. X9 - should be placed somewhere on the Savage Coast.
  10. X10 - a label could possibly be added in Sind, but isn't the location really the whole Known World?
  11. X11 - a label could be added in Wendar and/or Denagoth.
  12. X12 - should be placed in Karameikos (IIRC it's Skarda's Mirror set in... Verge?).
  13. X13 - should be placed in Vestland.
Notes on Module Placement in First Era maps - Companion Series
  1. CM1 - should be placed in Norwold.
  2. CM2 -
  3. CM3 -
  4. CM4 - should be placed in Norwold.
  5. CM5 -
  6. CM6 -
  7. CM7 - should be placed on the northwest coast of Brun. This is probably the only label for the old modules that needs to be placed on a world (or continental) map.
  8. CM8 - should be placed in Glantri.
  9. CM9 - should be placed in Darokin, very close to the southern Alfheim border.
Notes on Module Placement in First Era maps - Master Series
  1. M1 -
  2. M2 -
  3. M3 -
  4. M4 - should be placed in Norwold.
  5. M5 - should be placed on the Isle of Dawn - possibly at the Temple of Dawn on the Great Escarpment.
References
  1. Mystara Module and Placement by Andrew Theisen at the Vaults of Pandius

    Thanks to: Marco Dalmonte (DM), Joe Mason (JoeNotCharles), Sheldon Morris (Hugin), Simone Neri (Zendrolion)

    I have a couple of questions here:

    In the case of a travelling adventure, where are the labels placed? At the start of the journey, along the way, or at the final destination?
    It seems to me that usually the official maps chose the final destination for the label. We could expand this by marking both, with a dotted line along the likely path of travel.

    What are the exact locations for each of these labels? Are any of these points wrong?
    If you can suggest a location for those not listed, please post it here and I'll add it to the list. Similarly, if there are any mistakes, please post and discuss.
Last edited by Thorf on Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:32 am, edited 6 times in total.
Reason: Marked the thread with an "issues" (question mark) icon.

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Zendrolion
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Re: Mapping Issues: Module Placement Labels

Post by Zendrolion » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:17 am

Thorf wrote:Notes on Module Placement in First Era maps - Basic Series
Many modules of the "B" series don't have a precise placement (sometimes they give suggestions only), but there's a later product (which thereby could be considered the more accurate) that places the first nine "B" adventures rather well in Karameikos, that is B1-9. So, according to it, we could have:
  1. B5 - Karameikos. Guido's Fort is found on river Shrill, which by itself seems to be a tributary of River Highreach, coming down into it by the Haven region (in B1-9 the PCs embark on B5 after the conclusion of B3). Guido's Fort should be on the east side of the Shrill, while the monastery on "The Hill" should be on the west side of it.
  2. B6 - Karameikos, city of Specularum (the map of the city found in the module has to be updated, however).
  3. B7 - Karameikos, elven village of Kota-Hutan; the village should be found in a forested area (probably in the hills) east of the tract of the Duke's Road which links Penhaligon and Selenica, just before climbing up the mountains.
  4. B8 - Karameikos. Original module suggested to place the adventure in the hills west of Threshold or north of Lake Amsorak in Darokin, but B1-9 place it in the mountain region north of Threshold (which is said to be "several hours of travel south of the Forest of Carm"). In my map of the area I found that placing the whole area of B8 north-east of Threshold works very well.
  5. B9 - These are four adventures in truth, three of which have been placed by B1-9 in Karameikos. "The Sanctuary of Elwyn the Ardent" is found in the Threshold area (Elwyn's fortress is found "three days' ride east" of the town). "The Clearing of Castle Caldwell" and "Dungeon of Terror" are located in Old Antilles Castle, "five miles west of Threshold". "The Great Escape" has been set as the escape from a border outpost in the Black Eagle Barony. While "The Abduction of Princess Sylvia" has never been placed at all (and it's placement is difficult indeed).
  6. B11 - should be placed in Karameikos, more precisely at Stallanford, a village some miles north of Penhaligon.
  7. B12 - should be placed in Karameikos, see B11.
X2 - the location for X2 is marked on the Expert Set (1983) Known World map in Glantri, near the Broken Lands border. However, the premise of X2 is that wherever the PCs are, they are spirited away by the mists and end up in the "prison dimension" of Castle Amber. Therefore the adventure could start in any location, and this label is meaningless.
I don't think the label is meaningless, becouse the adventure starts with these words:

Your party has been traveling overland to Glantri City, tracking down rumors that one of the Princes of Glantri is looking for brave adventurers willing to undertake a special mission (for a suitable fee, of course).

So they've chosen a reasonable location on the road to Glantri City. Of course one could decide (as I did, for example), that the PCs start somewhere else, but that's true for most D&D adventures.
X10 - a label could possibly be added in Sind, but isn't the location really the whole Known World?
Doesn't this adventure start in Akesoli, do it? :?:
X12 - should be placed in Karameikos (IIRC it's Skarda's Mirror set in... Verge?).
Yes, the PCs are called to investigate the Antonics' stronghold at first.
CM1 - should be placed in Norwold.
I'd say the label would be OK in Alpha.

Regarding other CMs, Ms, and IMs:

CM2 - Two Lakes' Vale, but first of all one has to decide in which part Norwold the barony is found.
CM3 - A county along the Sabre River, which is said to be one of the main rivers of Norwold; I had it be the the easternmost of the two which flow south of the Alpha peninsula.
CM4 - Duchy of Vyolstagrad, but where would it be?
CM5 - Tarylon region, which is tricky becouse of the presence of gyerians and other things. On the Italian MMB we thought a good placement could be an area north of the Black Mountains (Ozungan Plateau by Christian Constantin?).
CM6 - World of Aelos (not on Mystara).
CM8 - "a road somewhere in the Principalities of Glantri, at least four days' ride from Glantri City". I thought some woods in the Wendarian Ranges or in Boldavia could do, given the module's historical references.

M1 - Norwold, the PCs should start at Alpha with the king's royal fleet, heading for Qeodhar.
M2 - Norwold, scattered locations as the PCs are supposed to begin each in his own dominion.
M3 - The adventure starts in Corunglain, then carries the PCs in the Scar Mesa in the Broken Lands (and from there to the Pits of Banishment, a prison outer plane).
M4 - Town of Lighthall, which according to the module should be half-way between Landfall and Oceansend, and on the coast.
M5 - Again, start in Alpha (PCs are supposedly called to carry out the diplomatic mission), when Edairo, Temple of Dawn, and Helskir.
In the case of a travelling adventure, where are the labels placed? At the start of the journey, along the way, or at the final destination?
It seems to me that usually the official maps chose the final destination for the label. We could expand this by marking both, with a dotted line along the likely path of travel.
If only one lable had to be placed, I'd like to have it at the adventure's starting location. After all, all the labels from the Expert Set's continental map seem to be found at the modules' starting points. "Paths" could be useful, but they're not always clear in the adventures themselves (many times the PCs can choose their own path).
"The prince should study historical accounts of the actions of great men, to see how they conducted themselves in war; he should study the
causes of their victories and defeats, so as to avoid the defeats and imitate the victories" N. Machiavelli, The Prince, XIV, 5

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Re: Mapping Issues: Module Placement Labels

Post by JoeNotCharles » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:13 pm

Zendrolion wrote: I don't think the label is meaningless, becouse the adventure starts with these words:

Your party has been traveling overland to Glantri City, tracking down rumors that one of the Princes of Glantri is looking for brave adventurers willing to undertake a special mission (for a suitable fee, of course).

So they've chosen a reasonable location on the road to Glantri City. Of course one could decide (as I did, for example), that the PCs start somewhere else, but that's true for most D&D adventures.
I always interpreted it that the PC's happened to stop at the real-world location of Castle Amber (which has now vanished) and when the adventure concludes the castle reappears there. So the location for X2 should be exactly where Castle Amber is on the Glantri detail maps.

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Re: Mapping Issues: Module Placement Labels

Post by Hugin » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:10 pm

JoeNotCharles wrote:I always interpreted it that the PC's happened to stop at the real-world location of Castle Amber (which has now vanished) and when the adventure concludes the castle reappears there. So the location for X2 should be exactly where Castle Amber is on the Glantri detail maps.
This is a good point. I think the location should be of the main adventure itself and not necessarily the introductory location. So for X1 it would be the Isle of Dread and not Specularum (IIRC ?). That's my thoughts on it anyway.

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