Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

A directory of geographical maps for the world of Mystara.

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Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:21 pm

Maps

Replica of TM1, 8 miles per hex by Thorf, August 2008
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Replica of TM2, 8 miles per hex by Thorf, March 2009
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Combined replica of TM1 and TM2, 8 miles per hex by Thorf, March 2009
Image Image Image

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Sources: GAZ1 The Grand Duchy of Karameikos (1987), GAZ2 The Emirates of Ylaruam (1987), GAZ3 The Principalities of Glantri (1987), GAZ4 The Kingdom of Ierendi (1987), GAZ5 The Elves of Alfheim (1988), GAZ6 The Dwarves of Rockhome (1988), GAZ7 The Northern Reaches (1988), GAZ8 The Five Shires (1988), GAZ9 The Minrothad Guilds (1988), GAZ10 The Orcs of Thar (1989), GAZ11 The Republic of Darokin (1989), GAZ12 The Golden Khan of Ethengar (1989), GAZ13 The Shadow Elves (1990), GAZ14 The Atruaghin Clans (1991), Dawn of the Emperors (1989), TM1 The Western Countries (1989), TM2 The Eastern Countries (1989) and PC3 The Sea People (1990). Also PC1 Tall Tales of the Wee Folk (1989), PC4 Night Howlers (1992), Wrath of the Immortals (1992) and Champions of Mystara (1993).

Notes on TM1
Notes on TM2
  • Fonts - Country/Province names: 15.7-15.9 Feinen Bold; Major Sea names (seas, major bodies of water): 15.7 Feinen Bold; Minor Sea names (minor seas, bays, lakes): 12.7-13 Feinen Italic; Island/Dominion names: 12.7 Feinen Regular; Terrain Features (mountains, hills, fjords, reefs, marshes, plains, mountain passes, deserts, etc): 11.1-11.3 Feinen Bold; Rivers: 9.6-9.7 Feinen Italic; Fauna: 9.7 Feinen Regular; Settlements and Minor Terrain Features: 7.9-8 Feinen Bold. All labels in all capitals (except for a single battlefield label).
  • Spelling Errors - Sandstone Ciffs (should be Sandstone Cliffs).
To Do List
  1. Finish making replica of TM2.
  2. Create a combined replica of TM1 and TM2. (And watch my computer explode from the stress.)
  3. Write notes on all the featured areas, comparing them with other sources.
  4. Update all the individual country maps.
  5. Create an updated trail map of the Known World area.
References
Last edited by Thorf on Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:08 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Reason: Added map and edited To Do Lists.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:25 pm

Update: Minor hex art update to TM1 replicas. Specifically, I have redrawn the following hexes: grasslands, forested hills, swamp, and moor. Also the trees on the jungle symbol have been enlarged slightly. Let me know what you think of the new art.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by CmdrCorsiken » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:07 pm

The art looks great, as alawys.

I was surprised to notice that this map left off the World Elevator. As you know already, it should be directly south of Akesoli. I supose that's one of dozens of details to be added to the Updated map.
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:13 am

CmdrCorsiken wrote:The art looks great, as alawys.
Thanks! I'm slowly getting round to revising all the hexes I've been neglecting for the past few years. With this latest revision, they are almost exactly as I want them to be, although doubtless I will discover more things to improve as time goes on.
I was surprised to notice that this map left off the World Elevator. As you know already, it should be directly south of Akesoli. I supose that's one of dozens of details to be added to the Updated map.
Got it in one. :D The updated trail map will eventually include all of these details. But first I have to finish the updated maps of each country.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:38 pm

Update: Added replica of TM2. Changed the thumbnails to big ones.

This map took a lot of effort. I remember now why I didn't go straight onto TM2 after finishing TM1 last year: the map gets to an almost-finished stage very quickly, but it actually takes upwards of 10 hours from that point to the finish mark. Not very fun. Anyway it's done now.

I'm not entirely happy with all of the original colours, especially compared to TM1. I may make them both the same in the future, although the actual maps probably do differ slightly anyway.

Next up - well, hopefully sometime soon, that is - is a combined replica of these two. I'm not sure how easy or hard it will be yet. But right now it's time for bed. ;) :D

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:31 am

I really thought I'd get more of a reaction out of this. Perhaps no one realised what maps were included in this thread...? :? :cry:

(It sure is getting lonely up here in the clouds... ;) )

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Havard » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:36 am

Thorf wrote:(It sure is getting lonely up here in the clouds... ;) )
They are awsome man! Do you even have to ask? Lol :)

I am really excited about the combined version though!

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:55 pm

Me too! I think in some ways you've become a victim of your own success, Thorf. You've blown our minds with your maps for so long now that re-creating the Trail Maps was probably something that (in the minds of most) was pretty much expected. Having said that, I did look at them, and enjoyed them immensely because taking mine out of their boxes and unfolding them is a real pain. Consider them saved to my memory stick!

I think the real thrill will be seeing them merged!
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Ashtagon » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:17 pm

On another mailing list I was on once, we had what was called the "black hole of quality". Anything that was just awe-inspiringly good received very few comments, because people were just so astounded that something so excellent was humanly possible. All that could be heard would be the whirr of hard drives quietly saving the post in question.
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:06 pm

To be honest, I've been staring at the TM2 map for the past couple of days... I just don't know what to say. "It's very good" just doesn't come close ;) This is one of those maps that I've been waiting for (I'm sure along with many others), for a long time, and I am not disappointed. I have already put the map to good use, using it to clean up some of my 2300 BC shorelines in the area. Those changes should see their way into my next update.
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:25 pm

Thanks for the feedback, everyone! :)

Update: I posted a preliminary version of the combined replica map. (See above for the map, and below for some comments on it.)
Havard wrote:They are awsome man! Do you even have to ask? Lol :)
Hehe. That's good to hear. The reason I want to hear feedback (even if it's just "Cool!") is that it links directly to my motivation. Especially after such a long slog, it really helps to get me going again. This is one of the things I am thanking people for in my "Thanks to" lists in each thread. :)
I am really excited about the combined version though!
It took a good three hours or so, but I just posted it. The actual join was extremely simple; the problem comes from the massive file that results, which makes every little action take many times longer than it should.

Incidentally, there's a problem with outputting files this big: for some reason Illustrator doesn't seem to be able to anti-alias them right. Consequently, the image I just uploaded is actually less pretty than the two individual maps. At some point I will split it into two files, output them separately, then stick them together in Photoshop, but I don't have time tonight.
Seer of Yhog wrote:Me too! I think in some ways you've become a victim of your own success, Thorf. You've blown our minds with your maps for so long now that re-creating the Trail Maps was probably something that (in the minds of most) was pretty much expected. Having said that, I did look at them, and enjoyed them immensely because taking mine out of their boxes and unfolding them is a real pain. Consider them saved to my memory stick!
I totally sympathise with the unwieldiness of the paper maps. Scanning them in was extremely problematic too, and it's great to have them in the computer all neat and easily accessible at last. (And without fold marks all over the place, too!)

You may be right about the success thing. I have noticed that lately when I talk about how long it takes to get a map done it feels like I'm somehow going against the grain. :? :lol:
Ashtagon wrote:On another mailing list I was on once, we had what was called the "black hole of quality". Anything that was just awe-inspiringly good received very few comments, because people were just so astounded that something so excellent was humanly possible. All that could be heard would be the whirr of hard drives quietly saving the post in question.
I guess I should be happy then. :geek:
Chimpman wrote:To be honest, I've been staring at the TM2 map for the past couple of days... I just don't know what to say. "It's very good" just doesn't come close ;) This is one of those maps that I've been waiting for (I'm sure along with many others), for a long time, and I am not disappointed. I have already put the map to good use, using it to clean up some of my 2300 BC shorelines in the area. Those changes should see their way into my next update.
The shorelines on my latest maps (well, anything from 2008 onwards really) are all exceedingly accurate to the original sources. Also this year I've started turning up the sensitivity of the pencil tool when I trace them, which makes them much more detailed - which of course for coastlines means rougher.

If it would help you I can send you them on their own, in whatever format you like (vector, PNG, etc.). I'm going to have to put together a thread providing different map parts at some point - preferably using bits from my updated maps, so that we have good consistency between different people's maps.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Zendrolion » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:21 pm

I'm sorry for the late answer, but I must say that a combined TM1-2 map is truly something materializing out of my dreams!!! 8-)
A wonderful work, as usual anyway! ;)

Just a couple of things: it's possible that both TM2 replica and TM1-2 combined map have a few leftovers from Ylaruam's updated map?
For example, the forested hill hexes in Nicostenia (both TM2 and TM1-2); the empty hill hex where "The Dead Place" stood (both TM2 and TM1-2); and the ruin symbol (Ennaej?) south of Sulba (TM2).

I could be wrong, it's just that I noticed them. :ugeek:

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:56 pm

Thorf wrote:If it would help you I can send you them on their own, in whatever format you like (vector, PNG, etc.). I'm going to have to put together a thread providing different map parts at some point - preferably using bits from my updated maps, so that we have good consistency between different people's maps.
Thanks Thorf. I'm doing all my work in Photoshop Elements (which does not support vector graphics), so I've either been just grabbing the png versions or using the pdfs to extract certain layers (and then converting them to pngs and scaling for my own use). For 2300 BC in most cases I'm extending shorelines out, so I don't really have to be that careful about things, however the Northern Reaches shorelines are fairly complex, and need to be extended carefully. The other thing that I'm relying on fairly heavily from these maps are the hills and mountain placements. Although climates may change over the course of 3000 years, I want the general topography to remain the same as much as possible.

I had gone through and taken the 8mi/hex maps for the Northern Reaches, Ethengar, Rockhome, and Ylaruam and pieced those together myself several weeks ago. After you posted TM2 I took that and compared it to what I had already and was pleasantly surprised with the results. It seems that I was able to finesse things into place fairly well ;). The biggest help that TM2 provided for me though was having a portion of the IoD on the map! This was my biggest concern as I had been taking maps of differing scales and using them to try to get the placement right.

Anyway I think the idea of providing a "working parts" thread is great, and would be a real benefit to people. Things like shorelines I think can already be gotten from the pdfs, however what might be really nice is providing things like the hex graphics, compass rose, the scroll (used for many map titles), in a pdf where they can be retrieved individually.
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by happylarry » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:06 pm

hey - just to say these maps are lovely - and great to finally see Tm1+2 together (like they should always have been)

you must have immense patience waiting for those big files.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:30 pm

Zendrolion wrote:I'm sorry for the late answer, but I must say that a combined TM1-2 map is truly something materializing out of my dreams!!! 8-)
A wonderful work, as usual anyway! ;)
Thanks! :D
Just a couple of things: it's possible that both TM2 replica and TM1-2 combined map have a few leftovers from Ylaruam's updated map?
For example, the forested hill hexes in Nicostenia (both TM2 and TM1-2); the empty hill hex where "The Dead Place" stood (both TM2 and TM1-2); and the ruin symbol (Ennaej?) south of Sulba (TM2).

I could be wrong, it's just that I noticed them. :ugeek:
You are of course entirely correct! :oops: :lol:

Actually it seems I forgot to change back all of the stuff on the Map layer, which is to say hex art other than settlements. And I even missed removing one settlement too.

To tell the truth, with a map this size, it's very hard to make sure that it's absolutely accurate - and it's so easy to forget something and overlook it. That's why your help is so invaluable to me. :)
Chimpman wrote:Thanks Thorf. I'm doing all my work in Photoshop Elements (which does not support vector graphics), so I've either been just grabbing the png versions or using the pdfs to extract certain layers (and then converting them to pngs and scaling for my own use). For 2300 BC in most cases I'm extending shorelines out, so I don't really have to be that careful about things, however the Northern Reaches shorelines are fairly complex, and need to be extended carefully. The other thing that I'm relying on fairly heavily from these maps are the hills and mountain placements. Although climates may change over the course of 3000 years, I want the general topography to remain the same as much as possible.
Interesting... I'm happy to hear that you're making use of the PDFs. Their layer features are really quite powerful tools, so it's great to hear that they're being put to use. And I'm really enjoying your historical maps so far.
Anyway I think the idea of providing a "working parts" thread is great, and would be a real benefit to people. Things like shorelines I think can already be gotten from the pdfs, however what might be really nice is providing things like the hex graphics, compass rose, the scroll (used for many map titles), in a pdf where they can be retrieved individually.
That's actually pretty easy for me to do. I hadn't really thought about presenting it in PDF form. I'll look into it. :D
happylarry wrote:hey - just to say these maps are lovely - and great to finally see Tm1+2 together (like they should always have been)

you must have immense patience waiting for those big files.
It does get really frustrating at times, and it sometimes gets to a point where you have to say enough is enough and publish it regardless. (That would be why TM2 still has updated Ylaruam stuff in it! ;) ) But in the end I think the results are worth it - and hearing that people like it and use it makes it all the more worthwhile for me. :D

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by CmdrCorsiken » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 am

Wow! That's huge!

I must say, that the Isle of Dawn at 8 mph really does look large, when connected to the mainland maps.

Thorf, don't worry about the imperfections you know are there. I would have a hard time noticing them....

Your work is appreciated! Thank you.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by metal » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:23 am

I can't think of anything to say other than, WOW!!!!!!! :shock:
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Andaire » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:08 pm

I noticed in the Orclands that there is Xorg, but not the other humanoid fort (the name escapes me). Is it really that way in TM2? I think it is present in all other maps of the area.

Well now I can't wait for the revised map :) That will be the ultimate KW map!
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Havard » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:33 pm

Andaire wrote:I noticed in the Orclands that there is Xorg, but not the other humanoid fort (the name escapes me).
Dast?

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:38 pm

From what I can see: the Orclands don't appear on TM2 at all. So presumably you meant TM1...? But in that case the other three settlements (Dast, C'Kag and Grukk) are all present and accounted for.

Maybe I didn't understand you right...? Anyway thanks for trying to spot mistakes - it's a big help. :)

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Andaire » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:42 pm

Thorf wrote:From what I can see: the Orclands don't appear on TM2 at all. So presumably you meant TM1...? But in that case the other three settlements (Dast, C'Kag and Grukk) are all present and accounted for.

Maybe I didn't understand you right...? Anyway thanks for trying to spot mistakes - it's a big help. :)
I meant C'Kag, and yes TM1, but you're right it's there, I just missed it in the hugeness of the map :oops: I was looking for it more to the south, among the hills, when panning the map.
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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:46 pm

Andaire wrote:
Thorf wrote:From what I can see: the Orclands don't appear on TM2 at all. So presumably you meant TM1...? But in that case the other three settlements (Dast, C'Kag and Grukk) are all present and accounted for.

Maybe I didn't understand you right...? Anyway thanks for trying to spot mistakes - it's a big help. :)
I meant C'Kag, and yes TM1, but you're right it's there, I just missed it in the hugeness of the map :oops: I was looking for it more to the south, among the hills, when panning the map.
So the map was just too big to find it. :D Actually that explains precisely why it's so hard to maintain accuracy with these maps! They're so big that it's hard not to miss some little things. :? :geek:

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Havard » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:11 pm

Thorf wrote:So the map was just too big to find it. :D Actually that explains precisely why it's so hard to maintain accuracy with these maps! They're so big that it's hard not to miss some little things. :? :geek:
Fortunately, you have a scrutious Frenchman to help you with these things ;)

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Thorf » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:17 pm

Update: I fixed the Ylaruam mistakes on TM2 (but not on the combined replica yet) that Zendrolion pointed out a few posts above. (Thanks, Simone! :D )

Namely:
  • Deleted Ennaej ruins and base rocky desert hex
  • Deleted Cynidicea base desert hex
  • Reverted Dead Places, Dar el-Tamyya and Kirkuk base hexes back to normal hills hexes
  • Reverted Piedmont forested hills back to normal hills
I think that's about all.

Oh, and just before bed I also did something I've been meaning to do for absolutely ages, and revised the art of a popular hex. You can see a preview of it on the TM2 map. (If you can't spot it, try comparing it with the original colours variant and you'll probably work it out.) 8-)

So to sum up: all the TM2 maps (both types, in both PNG and PDF) have been updated.

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Re: Outer World: Known World, 8 miles per hex

Post by Chimpman » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:16 am

Thorf wrote:Oh, and just before bed I also did something I've been meaning to do for absolutely ages, and revised the art of a popular hex. You can see a preview of it on the TM2 map. (If you can't spot it, try comparing it with the original colours variant and you'll probably work it out.) 8-)
Hmmm... something I just noticed. You made a change to the Poor Grazing hex. Don't know if this is what you're referring to above though...
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