Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

A directory of geographical maps for the world of Mystara.

Moderators: Seer of Yhog, Havard, Thorf

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Thorf »

Hugin wrote:Thorf, I've always wanted to see those maps as an equirectangular projection! Thanks! I do have to admit though, I'm seriously doubting that the world maps are as true or accurate as the more detailed hex maps, and therefore are not going to match up anyway. I've more recently just viewed them as rough sketches of the world to provide a general overview, nothing more.
Yes, I agree completely. The world maps are our only guides to expanding Mystara outside of the official hex maps, and in that respect they are essential, but the existing hex maps take precedence in all cases. My next step is to plug the hex maps into the world map and revise it, after which I will have an updated guide map on which to base all my maps. Naturally, as I work outwards from the Known World and make new hex maps, those areas' coastlines and precise positions will be reflected back into the evolving world map.
Ambreville wrote:Basically we originally tried doing what Thorf is doing, figuring where latitudes lines should be, and then we *hand-drafted* the coastal outlines. Ha, ha... that was barrel o' fun. I think the hex map really ought to remain regional depictions of Mystara--the smaller the better. Large-scale hex maps are to be avoided precisely because of distortions. Art maps representing continents or planetary view should remain just that: art maps -- especially if one realizes maps of our own RW past were highly inaccurate, I don't suppose maps of Mystara should be any more or less accurate anyway. Since they are based on someone's understanding of the world, each rendition ought to show some bias (a Thyatian map won't look like a Glantria map, or an orcish one, or an elven one, or again a gnomish Serraine version, and so forth ad nauseam).
Sorry Bruce, I wrote my previous post at the same time as you were writing this, and we both said some of the same things. :oops:

In any case, despite all of my insistence on accuracy and cartographic principles, I really should make it clear how much I respect and admire the work you did with the TSR cartographers for Mystara. I can do all this only because I have computers and programs to help me, while you guys did it all by hand! For me that's just astounding. What's even more astounding is the level of accuracy you were able to attain - the world map outlines, for example, look pretty bad in the computer, but when you consider that you actually adapted and indeed reprojected them all by hand, it's nothing short of amazing how close they are to the original world map. I've made almost exact replicas of almost all the official hex maps, including any errors in the originals, and I can testify first hand as to the overall consistency between maps and lack of mistakes.

User avatar
Ambreville
World Soul
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:18 pm
Gender: male
Location: Near Lake Geneva WI
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Ambreville »

@ Thorf -- I think we're in complete agreement here, as regards the uses of hex maps. Thanks again for all the time and effort you've put into this. Hopefully we'll end up with art maps (even if simple line art) giving a better idea of what the coastlines look like near the poles and how the transitional areas overlapping the polar openings between outer and inner worlds are laid out. It's perhaps a good thing that one can't really see much while entering the Hollow World. Since there are no civilizations living there that we know of, the geographic issue remains rather academic.
Last edited by Ambreville on Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bruce Heard otherwise known as Ambreville
My Blog: Calidar on Blogspot,
Calidar Publishing on DTRPG
Calidar on Facebook,
Mystara on Facebook, Princess Ark on Facebook
Twitter @Ambreville (#Mystara #WorldOfCalidar)

User avatar
Ambreville
World Soul
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:18 pm
Gender: male
Location: Near Lake Geneva WI
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Ambreville »

Thorf wrote:In any case, despite all of my insistence on accuracy and cartographic principles, I really should make it clear how much I respect and admire the work you did with the TSR cartographers for Mystara. I can do all this only because I have computers and programs to help me, while you guys did it all by hand! For me that's just astounding. What's even more astounding is the level of accuracy you were able to attain - the world map outlines, for example, look pretty bad in the computer, but when you consider that you actually adapted and indeed reprojected them all by hand, it's nothing short of amazing how close they are to the original world map. I've made almost exact replicas of almost all the official hex maps, including any errors in the originals, and I can testify first hand as to the overall consistency between maps and lack of mistakes.
I'm feeling a little better about this now. LOL! It was a major pain. :facepalm:
Bruce Heard otherwise known as Ambreville
My Blog: Calidar on Blogspot,
Calidar Publishing on DTRPG
Calidar on Facebook,
Mystara on Facebook, Princess Ark on Facebook
Twitter @Ambreville (#Mystara #WorldOfCalidar)

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Thorf »

nerik wrote:Well, my proposal was to use an icosahedral projection and fill each of the equilateral faces with hexes - see here (about 1-third of the way down the page) for a diagram. Further down Thorf provided a nice example of what this would look like in practice. The idea is to minimize the amount of variation in the actual area covered by each hex, but as Thorf pointed out, the actual dirtection of north will vary by hex.
Nerik, I haven't given up on your idea. It's definitely something I want to do, but as you say we need to get the dimensions sorted out first.

The main advantage of the icosahedral map is that it allows us to have continuous hexes across the whole surface of the planet, which otherwise is not really feasible.

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Thorf »

Ambreville wrote:@ Thorf -- I think we're in complete agreement here, as regards the uses of hex maps. Thanks again for all the time and effort you've put into this. Hopefully we'll end up with art maps (even if simple line art) giving a better idea of what the coastlines look like near the poles and how the transitional areas overlapping the polar openings between outer and inner worlds are laid out. It's perhaps a good thing that one can't really see much while entering the Hollow World. Since there are no civilizations living there that we know of, the geographic issue remains rather academic.
My project is to make an Atlas of Mystara, complete with all sorts of maps, so you can bet on both line art... and more. :cool: It's a very long-term project, but you can read the overview here.

User avatar
Ambreville
World Soul
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:18 pm
Gender: male
Location: Near Lake Geneva WI
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Ambreville »

Thorf wrote:
Ambreville wrote:@ Thorf -- I think we're in complete agreement here, as regards the uses of hex maps. Thanks again for all the time and effort you've put into this. Hopefully we'll end up with art maps (even if simple line art) giving a better idea of what the coastlines look like near the poles and how the transitional areas overlapping the polar openings between outer and inner worlds are laid out. It's perhaps a good thing that one can't really see much while entering the Hollow World. Since there are no civilizations living there that we know of, the geographic issue remains rather academic.
My project is to make an Atlas of Mystara, complete with all sorts of maps, so you can bet on both line art... and more. :cool: It's a very long-term project, but you can read the overview here.

Sounds like a lifetime's work! :P
Bruce Heard otherwise known as Ambreville
My Blog: Calidar on Blogspot,
Calidar Publishing on DTRPG
Calidar on Facebook,
Mystara on Facebook, Princess Ark on Facebook
Twitter @Ambreville (#Mystara #WorldOfCalidar)

User avatar
Culture20
Bugbear
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:39 pm
Gender: male

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Culture20 »

Thorf wrote: Image

Also note how the latitudes differ. This may be where the problems started, because the Hollow World Set map is slightly skewed northwards - it cuts off more from the north than it does from the south.
The parts that are cut off are the parts that are in the curvature (according to the top and bottom views of the HW world maps). Do you only have the two flat outer/inner images? There is actually the same amount cut off, there's just more ocean between Vulcania and the Icelore elves than between Hyboria and Northern Iciria.

User avatar
nerik
Bionoid
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:55 am
Gender: male
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by nerik »

Thorf wrote:Nerik, I haven't given up on your idea. It's definitely something I want to do, but as you say we need to get the dimensions sorted out first.

The main advantage of the icosahedral map is that it allows us to have continuous hexes across the whole surface of the planet, which otherwise is not really feasible.
Well, Most of the surface, I think we might get some discontinuities in the region of the polar openings, but I'm finding it a bit hard to visualise ATM.

But, as you said, first we need the dimensions.

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Thorf »

Culture20 wrote:The parts that are cut off are the parts that are in the curvature (according to the top and bottom views of the HW world maps). Do you only have the two flat outer/inner images? There is actually the same amount cut off, there's just more ocean between Vulcania and the Icelore elves than between Hyboria and Northern Iciria.
The borders of the image mark the edge of the Master Set map, and the red outlines are the Master Set map's coastlines. Check the empty space at the top and bottom and you'll see that the cut-off in the north is slightly more than in the south. This is the source of our problems with latitude, where the 30 degrees north line falls slightly further south on the Hollow World map than on the Master Set map.

Of course you are right that the cut off parts are the bits in the polar openings. What I'm trying to show here is that the world map was not just clipped and stretched but also skewed southward when the Hollow World Set map was made.

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Thorf »

I've been roughing up a cross-section of the world in Illustrator, using the Document Info panel to tell me the measurements of paths representing various parts of the world. This is a useful feature, although unfortunately it doesn't include area, so we still have to go to Photoshop for that.

In any case, my current thinking is as follows: we now have two equirectangular maps worked out, both with latitudes from 0 to 90 degrees, but we have to reduce this to 65-75 degrees to account for the polar openings. There are two ways to do this:
  1. Add 15-25 degrees of empty sea at the top and bottom of the map. To avoid deforming the continents, more empty sea would need to be added in the far east and west, thus further enlarging the overall world size.
  2. Fold the top and bottom 15-25 degrees of the map into the polar openings. No deformation should occur, but the polar openings may contain more land than we previously thought.
From my model, in which the lip began at 69 degrees in each world, I was able to work out that the polar opening contains only about 80% of the land that you would find on a fully spherical planet.

Considering all these things, it seems to me that the Outer World should definitely follow option 2. We don't want to add even more sea to an already sea-dominated map; there is already a little sea that gives space to work with at each pole; and the official version has land from the Outer World folding into the openings in the first place. So the Outer World is pretty much decided.

As for the Hollow World, it will require a bit more thought. In order to keep all the land outside the polar openings, as shown in the official maps, we would have to go with option 1. But this would mean adding sea to the east and west. On the other hand going with option 2 would entail pushing land into the polar openings - most notably the Blacklore Elves, as is currently being discussed in another thread. There is a slight worry that the land from the Hollow World could overlap with the Outer World land, due to the polar openings containing less land, but I am reasonably confident that there's enough sea to prevent this from happening.

So, my conclusion is to go with option 2 for both worlds. Of course, this has the added benefit that I don't have to do painful rescaling of latitudes for either map. :)

My next step is to finish lining up the Iciria hex map with the world map, a job which I started years ago. Unfortunately they do not line up perfectly, but they're pretty good. In the end a judgement call is needed on which parts to line up perfectly and which to have skewed. Once the position is decided, I will adapt the world map to reflect the more accurate hex map.

As an aside, it will also then be possible to reproject the Iciria map, and see how the extreme north and south really look. (You can already see this on some of the images I posted in the previous curvature thread, but I want to see it done to the hex map itself.)

With the hex map's position set in stone, it can be used as a reference to calculate the exact dimensions of the Hollow World as shown on the official maps. The north-south circumference is the easiest measurement to make, since the hexes are easy to count in that direction. I don't expect the final figure to differ significantly from the official figures, because the mapping for the Hollow World is generally a lot more accurate than the Outer World, likely thanks to its all being done by the same people at the same time, while the Outer World was done over an extended period, with a much larger group of people influencing it.

The same size calculation can be done for the Outer World, and in fact it as been done already by various people, most recently Sheldon. My own measurement depends on first placing the existing hex maps on the equirectangular world map and locking them in, so it might vary a little from other people's calculations, but it should be at least similar, I think. This is actually not quite as simple as you might think, because it's contingent on reconciling some alignment issues between the numerous hex maps involved. Obviously the world map is going to require quite a bit of adaptation to bring it in line with all the development that has been done on hex maps since it was originally drawn up over 30 years ago.

Once we have both these size calculations done, a final model can be assembled of the world. Basically this involves drawing two circles of the appropriate dimensions, with the Hollow World inside the Outer World circle. From this we can calculate the new crust width, which may well be somewhat more than the official number, and finally begin work on the polar openings. The final dimensions are a prerequisite for calculating the openings, so it will be some time before we can finalise things.

The only thing that I haven't worked out how to do yet is project the polar openings. Since they are the inside curve of a torus shape, I don't think any real world mapping projections are going to be of help. If someone knows enough of the maths involved, it may be possible to define a custom projection, which would be the best option. Otherwise it will have to be done by eye. Given their dimensions, a hex map covering the whole doughnut shape of each opening might not actually have too much distortion.

User avatar
Hugin
Messenger of Odin
Posts: 4186
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Hugin »

Thorf wrote:Once we have both these size calculations done, a final model can be assembled of the world. Basically this involves drawing two circles of the appropriate dimensions, with the Hollow World inside the Outer World circle. From this we can calculate the new crust width, which may well be somewhat more than the official number, and finally begin work on the polar openings. The final dimensions are a prerequisite for calculating the openings, so it will be some time before we can finalise things.
This is what I've done, based on my assumptions, etc.
Image

I calculated the crust's thickness between the outer and hollow world at 2293 miles. One of the biggest differences between my cross-section and most others is that I didn't use a uniform curve (i.e. part of a circle) inside the polar openings. It is more of funnel shape. At its narrowest point, the openings are 840 miles across.
The only thing that I haven't worked out how to do yet is project the polar openings. Since they are the inside curve of a torus shape, I don't think any real world mapping projections are going to be of help. If someone knows enough of the maths involved, it may be possible to define a custom projection, which would be the best option. Otherwise it will have to be done by eye. Given their dimensions, a hex map covering the whole doughnut shape of each opening might not actually have too much distortion.
For my interpretation of Mystara's structure, the polar openings would have to be done by eye. The two 'edges' of the openings (one being adjacent to the outer world, the other adjacent to the hollow world, while the middle is relatively flat) are not equally curved. The outer edge is a bit sharper but still gradual in the grand scale of things. The inner edge is actually very gradual which would allow us to easily 'extend' the Hollow World lands into the opening a bit (such as the lands of the Blacklore Elves and Beastmen).

I like the idea of the world maps only being done up to the point at which the surface curves into an opening; that being at 68 degrees for the outer world. In the Hollow the curvature begins at around 65 degrees, but since the curve here is very gradual, the world map could be mapped further to at least 68 degrees to to keep it the same as the outer world.

Then, the area in between the world maps which we'd call the polar regions, could be mapped out as separate maps.

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Thorf »

Interesting calculations, Sheldon. From my playing around with a similar diagram today, I can mostly see where you're coming from. One question: what are you basing the starting latitudes of 65/68 degrees on?

User avatar
Hugin
Messenger of Odin
Posts: 4186
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Hugin »

Thorf wrote:Interesting calculations, Sheldon. From my playing around with a similar diagram today, I can mostly see where you're coming from. One question: what are you basing the starting latitudes of 65/68 degrees on?
From the diagram I sketched above which is basically arbitrary on my part. If I have the curvature begin earlier, the curvature decreases. If later, the curvature gets sharper. I decided that having it begin within the (ant)arctic circles was a good compromise.

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Thorf »

I see. My model will likely be done in Illustrator using simple shapes to build more complex shapes (standard practice for Illustrator), so I will likely go with a regular, constant curve. It also simplifies the already complex mapping problems, which should help a little. I was finding that the curve could begin quite a bit later without any problems, although it will depend on the final sizes of the inner and outer worlds. I think I'd rather it began in the 70s rather than the 60s, although it doesn't make a huge difference either way.

User avatar
Hugin
Messenger of Odin
Posts: 4186
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Hugin »

Hmm... If your Outer World is roughly the same size as what I'm using, you make your Hollow World smaller, and you use a 'circular' polar opening, I think you are going to find one of two things: a) the openings begin even further away from the poles than I have them, or b) the width of the opening itself at its narrowest is going to be very small.

If you look at my sketch you'll see what I mean. Try to draw a circular open on it. Now try it with a thicker crust (smaller Hollow World). This is precisely why I used a funnel-like shape.

The other thing I use is known as an "easement" in the curve. That means there is a gradual change between the curve of the outer world to the curve of the polar opening - the curvature of the surface slowly increases, beginning at ~68°, until it reaches its sharpest curvature about 500 miles away, where it then begins to slowly flatten out again.

If I were to use a circular opening (instead of my funnel-like opening) with my surface measurements, here are some results:
A polar opening that's 1000 miles wide at its narrowest - the openings begin at 56.5°
500 miles wide - 62°
0 miles wide - 67.4°

This is all based on an outer world circumference of 25920 miles and inner circumference of 11520 miles. What sizes have you been working with?
Last edited by Hugin on Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ambreville
World Soul
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:18 pm
Gender: male
Location: Near Lake Geneva WI
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Ambreville »

By the way, a silly thought just crossed my mind. If you're having a problem fitting everything inside the Hollow World, what if everything and everyone entering the Hollow World actually *shrank* to the appropriate scale -- a bit like a cross between the Hollow World and Lilliput? Naturally, traveling back out, one would regain the original size. As a result, the actual size of the Hollow World becomes completely irrelevant. :P
Bruce Heard otherwise known as Ambreville
My Blog: Calidar on Blogspot,
Calidar Publishing on DTRPG
Calidar on Facebook,
Mystara on Facebook, Princess Ark on Facebook
Twitter @Ambreville (#Mystara #WorldOfCalidar)

User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Outer Being
Posts: 3253
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Gender: male
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Seer of Yhog »

...except Kubitts, who, due to the weirdness of the Alphatian spells that created them, become 20 foot tall hulking brutes if they ever go to the outer world! :lol:

(sorry, couldn't resist)
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Thorf »

Hugin wrote:This is all based on an outer world circumference of 25920 miles and inner circumference of 11520 miles. What sizes have you been working with?
In case anyone is wondering, we're currently discussing the issue of world size over in the World Dimensions thread. We'll bring the discussion back here once we have reached a satisfactory conclusion.

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Thorf »

Note: I split off the posts regarding the problems caused by expansion of the Far End Ocean, and moved them to a new thread in the main Mystara forum: The Far End Ocean Conundrum.

LoZompatore
Stone Giant
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 8:40 am
Gender: male
Location: Fano, Italy

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by LoZompatore »

LoZompatore made a reference map for this a while back. Does anyone have a link?
I suppose you are looking for this picture. Let me know if it's the right one, or I'll search again in my HD.

About latitude issues I also found this one. It is the picture of reference for the first post in this old topic about Mystara's dimensions.

About ichosaedral projection, I found this old map of mine where the ichosaedron is unfolded in a quite unconventional way in order to avoid cutting the existing official mapped area. Such a solution also grants the hex scale is true and identical for the whole available official maps (i.e = when you read 72 mile/hex the distance is really 72 mile for every hex everywhere, without bothering about polar distortions and the like). Unluckily this unfolding could conflict with existing HW global map (about the shape of continents close to the poles) and with most fan made maps outside the offical area (where you would be obliged to place the cuttings), so I don't think this could be a viable solution after all.

See if something here could be useful for you. ;)
Just to make my little contribution to this always very intriguing topic! :)

User avatar
Thorf
Cartomancer
Posts: 2485
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 2:41 am
Gender: male
Location: Akita, Japan
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Thorf »

Thanks Michele, that's exactly what I was looking for.

I must say I'm really interested to hear your opinion of what we've been discussing here. The more we look into this issue, the more complex it becomes, but I think we're starting to see some solutions on the horizon.

The overall conclusion, though, is that the official maps contradict themselves in so many ways that it's impossible to accept all the official sources as correct - in the end, we will have to make a decision as to which is correct. I have another replica map ready to post when my site comes back online along with some analysis which further explores this topic.

User avatar
AllanP
Storm Giant
Posts: 1644
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 6:20 pm
Gender: male
Location: England

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by AllanP »

Ambreville wrote:By the way, a silly thought just crossed my mind. If you're having a problem fitting everything inside the Hollow World, what if everything and everyone entering the Hollow World actually *shrank* to the appropriate scale -- a bit like a cross between the Hollow World and Lilliput? Naturally, traveling back out, one would regain the original size. As a result, the actual size of the Hollow World becomes completely irrelevant. :P
Bruce - that's a wonderful thought. It really evokes the spirit of Mystara and VoPA!

Hmmm... if this is some sort of Magic, what happens on the Day that Magic Doesn't Work? Could someone moving betweeen the Outer and Hollow Worlds end uo at the wrong size? That might be an interesting situation for a =DM to put their PCs imto... :twisted:

regards,
AllanP
"...a wanderer on the streets of Specularum"
My Specularum website includes Specularum City maps and FC1 Work In Progress

User avatar
Ambreville
World Soul
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:18 pm
Gender: male
Location: Near Lake Geneva WI
Contact:

Re: Mapping Issues: Sorting out the Outer World

Post by Ambreville »

AllanP wrote:
Ambreville wrote:By the way, a silly thought just crossed my mind. If you're having a problem fitting everything inside the Hollow World, what if everything and everyone entering the Hollow World actually *shrank* to the appropriate scale -- a bit like a cross between the Hollow World and Lilliput? Naturally, traveling back out, one would regain the original size. As a result, the actual size of the Hollow World becomes completely irrelevant. :P
Bruce - that's a wonderful thought. It really evokes the spirit of Mystara and VoPA!

Hmmm... if this is some sort of Magic, what happens on the Day that Magic Doesn't Work? Could someone moving betweeen the Outer and Hollow Worlds end uo at the wrong size? That might be an interesting situation for a =DM to put their PCs imto... :twisted:

regards,
That's an easy one! If magic prevents the change, it is delayed until magic resumes, like in Gulliver's Travels. It's obviously going to be extremely rare as so few people travel through the polar openings, let alone while magic happens to fail.
Bruce Heard otherwise known as Ambreville
My Blog: Calidar on Blogspot,
Calidar Publishing on DTRPG
Calidar on Facebook,
Mystara on Facebook, Princess Ark on Facebook
Twitter @Ambreville (#Mystara #WorldOfCalidar)

Post Reply

Return to “Geographical Mapping”