Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

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yellowdingo
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Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by yellowdingo »

Oh God...Its driving me mad...I'm almost done with inside the crater now I know it overlaps the Cavern of Steam by miles I am going to have to put in a Volcano (or at least a magma flow from adjacent fissures or cracks in the rock). I didn't map the surrounding surface -I'm mapping the adjacent caverns and the open crater.

Somehow I need to hunt down Andrew Theisen whose 8-mile hex map of the great crater I am using as a basis and poke him with point torture implements.

MODERATOR NOTE (by Big Mac): Topic name changed to match convention requested by Thorf in his Introduction & New Thread Posting Instructions sticky.

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Cthulhudrew
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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by Cthulhudrew »

yellowdingo wrote:Somehow I need to hunt down Andrew Theisen whose 8-mile hex map of the great crater I am using as a basis and poke him with point torture implements.
What did I do? :?

(BTW, I'll be interested to see your map; I always meant to do some mapping of the caverns in and around the Great Crater- even have two in various stages of work, but never finished them.)
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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by Chimpman »

I suspect he means this (found on the Vaults):

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Cthulhudrew
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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by Cthulhudrew »

Oh yeah, I know the map he was referring to, I just wasn't sure what he meant by needing to torture me over it. Is it really that complicated a map to work from? (Or maybe he meant some of the alternative symbols I created specifically for that map.)

I really just wanted to give the map a bit more character than the one in Glantri: Kingdom of Magic.
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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by Havard »

The map looks great 'Drew! :)

Maybe its just that moving from 8mphex to 1mphex is pretty difficult, but that would be true for any hex maps..


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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by Chimpman »

Ahh... got it. I may be wrong, but from reading the original post it sounds like dingo expects that there should be a volcano within the Great Crater. I am not however, familiar with the Cavern of Steam? Is that in the Broken Lands or Shadow Elf territories, or from some other source. I did a quick check on the Gaz 10 and Gaz 13 maps and could not find it (bit I could have easily missed something).
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Cthulhudrew
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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by Cthulhudrew »

I'm not certain what the Cavern of Steam is offhand. There is a steam filled cavern in the SE territories, but by my reckoning it is several thousand feet below the Great Crater (actually two lakes, the Boiling Lake and the Dragon Lake). There is a lava tunnel to the direct east of the Crater, beneath the Broken Lands, but again- by my reckoning- it falls a bit short of the Crater itself.
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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by yellowdingo »

The cavern of continual rain and in particular the crater of sethandor overlaps the great crater by miles and the Depth of the Crater puts them so close that the magma surface is higher than the bottom of the crater by 500 feet. Add 200 feet to the height of the cavern ceiling. So basically the Crater should have collapsed the Cavern and exposed the magma. If it isn't exposed- there are steam fissures and/or lava vents breaching the surface perhaps a few hundred feet above the cavern.

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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by Cthulhudrew »

Ah, I see what you are saying. I'm not entirely certain that I took that into account when making the map, but I do know that I considered at what depth the Great Crater might have been. It's been a while, but from what I recall, my thinking went along these lines:

1) Lower Trollhattan in the Broken Lands sits around -1,300 feet. I'm not certain the depth of Troll Lake, but let's say at least a couple hundred feet deep.
2) The Water Fountains of the City of Stars draw on the same water table as Troll Lake, "the bottom of which is some 1,300 feet above the ceiling of the cavern" (Gaz13 DM's Guide).
3) The City of Stars sits on the top of the Great Cavern, about 2,400 feet above the cavern floor.

Presuming the Cavern of Continual Rain sits at/around a similar depth, it's at or around 5,000 feet below sea level.

I don't recall offhand how deep the Great Crater is said to be (I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in either one of the almanacs or Glantri: Kingdom of Magic), but I think it was still less than a mile deep. It also impacted at an area that would have been significantly above sea level to begin with (the Silver Sierras). All of which combined to make the bottom of the crater still somewhat higher than the Shadowelf caverns, by my reckoning.

Also, I believe the Crater itself is located somewhat more to the west of the Crater of Sethandor; I think I modified it somewhat from the map in Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, but for the most part I followed the outlines of the crater as depicted on that map (I'd have to double check though).

Now, that said, Old Firemouth in the Crater of Sethandor must emerge somewhere, presumably in the caverns that would have already been extant beneath Glantri even prior to the meteor impact (an underground volcano, I guess, or at least some kind of lava tube).

Another thing to consider is that, according to Gaz13, the Cavern of Continual Rain isn't one giant cavern, but a large complex of linked caves and tunnels that connect to the volcano shaft. There also appears to be some kind of magic in the area, so perhaps that magic is keeping things in check? But yeah, Old Firemouth must exit somewhere, but I don't think the Great Crater itself is where it should be, but in the caverns beneath.

At least that was my reasoning.
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yellowdingo
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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by yellowdingo »

Actually its below surface - not below sea level in the gazetteers, so its all a lot closer to the Surface world than you think. Lower broken lands have ceilings at around -800 ft, the floors about -1200 ft, another 800 ft of rock strata to get to the ceilings of the Shadow elf caverns...and you are looking at around -2000 ft where the ceiling of the crater of Sethanon sits beneath the great crater. The great crater edge drops -800 ft almost sheer, then descends another 800 ft in the first two miles from the edge. That puts the fissures in the Great Crater at 400 feet above the Crater of Sethanon - Iv'e put Fissures symbolized by the red triangle as opposed to a volcano.
Fortunately the Magma sink in the Lower Broken lands is about four miles from the Cliffs of the Great Crater.

Now I've dealt with that, on to drawing dashed lines to indicate tunnels and there is one area in the north east that newly opened cracks would allow humanoids to descend slowly over 4 miles to a Shadow elf Cavern with a Keep.

A Subterranean River that crossed the Crater area is now severed and flows into lake marrow from the base of the northern cliffs, The Southern end of that river is now a bone-dry tunnel with no water flow that pretty much runs from the Great Crater to Caverns under the Atruaghin Plateau. Once the Humanoids find that they will be able to raid all the way down into the bottom of Darokin (and even across to the Shires) - at least until the Nucleus of the Spheres incident collapses the Subterranean realms in a day long Super-Quake.

I'll post the Map on Vaults of Pandius when I'm Done.

As to new symbols I assume the two gray symbols are ASH, and BOULDER STREWN


Updated:

The Crater is actually 20 miles larger in Diameter and further west that yours Andrew. You are back on my naughty list. I used the Square Grid Map in the Poor Wizard's Almanac's (AC1011) Geographical Regions update - though the Map is flawed compared to Thorfins hex-maps, the Scale of the Actual Crater and its size against the Square Grid is useful. It now crosses the southern border almost all the way to the lakeside which is why on the Almanac Map the New Border drops down to the southern edge of the Silver Sierras separating the mountains from The Darokin District of Lakeside. It now comes no where near Shadow-elf Caverns to the east (except maybe in the north East), and Blackstone Keep is no longer 10-20 miles from the Crater - it is half buried in the outer edge of the Crater Rim (where the rock and dirt were thrown up against it).

yellowdingo
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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

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Cthulhudrew
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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by Cthulhudrew »

Well, as I said, I used the hex map from the Glantri boxed set as the basis for my own (albeit slightly modified) map. There were always a lot of discrepancies about the Great Crater in various sources, anyway (it was originally mentioned to have been centered on Corran Keep, but that obviously didn't hold between WotI and later sources).

The map looks good. I'll have to take a closer look when I get home from work!
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yellowdingo
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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by yellowdingo »

Hi all, how are you liking the new crater map?

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Carillion
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Re: Outer World: Great Crater, 1 mile per hex

Post by Carillion »

Good job, yellowdingo! I bet that took a while to draw.

Your map has made me want to revisit and finish my map of the Black Mountains region. If only I could get some free time these days!

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