Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

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Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Thorf » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:16 am

Maps

None as of yet. (But see Unofficial Sources below.)

Comments
This thread is for development of a chronological map of Taymora in 2300 BC. It was started at John Calvin/Chimpman's request. I will update this post with information periodically as the project progresses, and eventually the maps will be presented here.

Sources: GAZ4 The Kingdom of Ierendi (1987), GAZ12 The Golden Khan of Ethengar (1989), PC3 The Sea People (1990).

Unofficial Maps: Taymor at the Vaults of Pandius, Physical Map of Southeastern Brun (c. BC 2000) (2002) by Geoff Gander, Map of Taymora (2003) by James Mishler, Map of Southeastern Brun: 2500 BC (2003) by James Mishler, Geopolitical map of Taymora (2004) by Giampaolo Agosta, Taymora BC 2300 by John Calvin, Taymora BC 2300 with cities by John Calvin.

Chronological Notes on GAZ12
  • 3000 BC - "The Great Rain of Fire obliterates Blackmoor; the planet shifts and the ice caps recede from the steppes." (GAZ12 DM's Guide page 5b) "After the ice caps shifted following the Great Rain of Fire, the steppes were a fertile plain". (GAZ12 DM's Guide page 6a)
  • 2000 BC - "a sheltered land where the grass grew tall and all manner of animals roamed." (GAZ12 DM's Guide page 3b)
  • 1700 BC - "Elves in Glantri trigger a cataclysm that has a profound affect [sic] on the lands of the steppes. The Land of Black Sand is formed." (GAZ12 DM's Guide page 5b) The Land of Black Sand is not yet present in 2300 BC. The World Mountain may be present, but as a normal mountain.

Notes on PC3
  • Colhador - "To the south of Utter Island, for example, is Colhador. Once upon a time this was an island, inhabited by elves as I'm told, but it sunk untold centuries ago, and now the whole place is filled with muck and monsters." (PC3 page 50) However, the map depicts Colhador as sitting on the edge of a depression. On the other hand, the depression has a line indicating that it's a plateau, so the map seems confused on this issue.

Notes on Physical Map of Southeastern Brun (c. BC 2000) by Geoff Gander
Quotations are notes by the cartographer.
  • Asanda River Delta - "I ... extrapolated a huge delta at the mouth of the Asanda River..."
  • Blight Swamp - "I also enlarged the Blight Swamp and turned it into a shallow lake fringed by cliffs on its southern shore (like a basin). When the tremor hit, the cliff-face collapsed, draining the lake and creating the swamp we know today. This, of course, didn't please the critters who lived in the lake, some of whom remain to this day..."
  • Coastlines - "I followed the continental shelf..."
  • Colhador - "I also dropped in a small, lush island off the southern coast (you can see it on the map) where Colhador would have been. This is in accordance with the timeline I put together on the sunken city, which tried to weave together the conflicting official accounts of its history."
  • Malpheggi Swamp - "I ... turned most of the Malpheggi Swamp into a lake (just to make it interesting)."

Notes on Taymora BC 2300 by John Calvin
Quotations are notes by the cartographer.
  • "Rivers and other water features are still not filled in, nor is most of the terrain in Taymoran territory. I'm also playing around with different mountain configurations - that's just one of them. When you take a look focus on the southern coastline. I tried to use the contours given in the PC3 map along with most of the sunken ruins to determine a good shoreline. I still need to go back and position ruins further inland to try and derive river configurations (which may change my mountain layout)."

Notes on Taymora BC 2300 with cities by John Calvin
Quotations are notes by the cartographer.
  • "I missed quite a few underwater ruins while I was devising my shoreline. I've revised it in this map, and included the ruins (now shown as cities in black)."

To Do List
  1. Update sources list to include all products with references to Taymora.
  2. Research official sources for details of Taymora and write notes for creating a map.
  3. Develop historical map as far as possible based on official sources.
  4. Complete development using fan sources and personal judgement.

References
  1. Sea of Dread ancient cultures - LoZompatore's map at the Vaults of Pandius.
  2. Timeline of the Taymoran Age at the Vaults of Pandius.
  3. Taymora Timeline at the Vaults of Pandius.
  4. Cultural articles Taymora, Land of the Dead and Lukka, the Beast-men at the Vaults of Pandius.

Thanks to: Jim Calvin (Chimpman) for developing this map. Also: Michele C. (LoZompatore), Havard Faanes, Geoff Gander (Seer of Yhog), Roger Girtman (Gawain_VIII), Sheldon Morris (Hugin), Hervé Musseau (Andaire), Shawn Stanley (stanles).
Last edited by Thorf on Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added notes.
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby LoZompatore » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:27 am

Mybe this link could be also useful to you:

http://pandius.com/sdancult.html

Unluckily the map is corrupted (I tought I posted the clean version months ago, but I noticed it is still in the original version... :( ), but see if it could be of any help to you.

Red dots could be Taymora cities (unofficially, except from cities labelled 1 and 2); they corresponds to undersea ruins from PC2 map.
;)
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Hugin » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:21 pm

Hurray for historical maps! Eventually, that is.

But still, very excited to see these.
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Havard » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:24 pm

Oh man, is this something I would love to see! 8-)

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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Chimpman » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:01 pm

These may also prove useful in developing the region:
Timeline of the Taymoran Age
Taymora Timeline

Some cultural articles:
Taymora, Land of the Dead
Lukka, the Beast-men
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Chimpman » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:27 pm

Some quotes I found for Nithia BC 1000, that I thought also might be relevant for this thread:

Gaz12 wrote:BC 3000
The Great Rain of Fire obliterates Blackmoor; the planet shifts and the ice caps recede from the steppes. Spirits are drawn in to merge with the world.
Gaz 12, DM pg 5

BC 1700
Elves in Glantri trigger a cataclysm that has a profound affect on the lands of the steppes. The Land of Black Sand is formed.
Gaz 12, DM pg 5


So at this point in time the Land of Black Sand does not actually exist (though I suppose that the World Mountain might). However the Spirit World is in contact with the KW, although I don't know how (or if it needs to be) represented on the map.
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Thorf » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:10 am

Chimpman wrote:Some quotes I found for Nithia BC 1000, that I thought also might be relevant for this thread:

Gaz12 wrote:BC 3000
The Great Rain of Fire obliterates Blackmoor; the planet shifts and the ice caps recede from the steppes. Spirits are drawn in to merge with the world.
Gaz 12, DM pg 5

BC 1700
Elves in Glantri trigger a cataclysm that has a profound affect on the lands of the steppes. The Land of Black Sand is formed.
Gaz 12, DM pg 5


So at this point in time the Land of Black Sand does not actually exist (though I suppose that the World Mountain might). However the Spirit World is in contact with the KW, although I don't know how (or if it needs to be) represented on the map.


I'd say you're probably right in thinking that it doesn't need to be (or can't be) represented on the map. So no Land of Black Sand in this time period yet. Interesting stuff. :)
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:29 pm

For what it's worth, you can also check out the map I drew up a few years ago. It's a slightly different take, but I followed the continental shelf, extrapolated a huge delta at the mouth of the Asanda River, and turned most of the Malpheggi Swamp into a lake (just to make it interesting).

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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Havard » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:52 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:For what it's worth, you can also check out the map I drew up a few years ago. It's a slightly different take, but I followed the continental shelf, extrapolated a huge delta at the mouth of the Asanda River, and turned most of the Malpheggi Swamp into a lake (just to make it interesting).


That's a pretty cool map. I hadn't looked at it for a while :)

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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:20 pm

Thanks!

FWIW, I also dropped in a small, lush island off the southern coast (you can see it on the map) where Colhador would have been. This is in accordance with the timeline I put together on the sunken city, which tried to weave together the conflicting official accounts of its history.

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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Chimpman » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:10 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:Thanks!

FWIW, I also dropped in a small, lush island off the southern coast (you can see it on the map) where Colhador would have been. This is in accordance with the timeline I put together on the sunken city, which tried to weave together the conflicting official accounts of its history.

Geoff


Thanks Geoff! I like this map as well, and really like the Malpheggi as a lake. I actually read your timeline a few weeks ago, but have to admit I'm still a little conflicted over the history of Colhador. It's something I have to think over a little more.
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Seer of Yhog » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:21 pm

I also enlarged the Blight Swamp and turned it into a shallow lake fringed by cliffs on its southern shore (like a basin). When the tremor hit, the cliff-face collapsed, draining the lake and creating the swamp we know today. This, of course, didn't please the critters who lived in the lake, some of whom remain to this day, as the protagonists in our little story will soon find out.

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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby stanles » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:04 am

LoZompatore wrote:Mybe this link could be also useful to you:

http://pandius.com/sdancult.html

Unluckily the map is corrupted (I tought I posted the clean version months ago, but I noticed it is still in the original version... :( ), but see if it could be of any help to you.

Red dots could be Taymora cities (unofficially, except from cities labelled 1 and 2); they corresponds to undersea ruins from PC2 map.
;)


yes I see the original post http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=598650 still has the same corruption. If you send me a new version LoZomaptore, I'll put it up on the Vaults.
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby LoZompatore » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:31 am

yes I see the original post http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=598650 still has the same corruption. If you send me a new version LoZomaptore, I'll put it up on the Vaults.


What about this? It seems good to me:

http://it.geocities.com/lutetius00/Mapp ... d_full.jpg

If the image is still corrupted I'll try to send you this file by e-mail ;)
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby stanles » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:02 pm

LoZompatore wrote:
yes I see the original post http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=598650 still has the same corruption. If you send me a new version LoZomaptore, I'll put it up on the Vaults.


What about this? It seems good to me:

http://it.geocities.com/lutetius00/Mapp ... d_full.jpg

If the image is still corrupted I'll try to send you this file by e-mail ;)


thanks LoZompatore, I've uploaded that now
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Chimpman » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:38 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:I also enlarged the Blight Swamp and turned it into a shallow lake fringed by cliffs on its southern shore (like a basin). When the tremor hit, the cliff-face collapsed, draining the lake and creating the swamp we know today. This, of course, didn't please the critters who lived in the lake, some of whom remain to this day, as the protagonists in our little story will soon find out.


Hmmm... I'm starting to think that the upheavals that happened ~1700 BC could have had a profound impact on the surrounding lands as well (not just those nearest to the shoreline). That would mean that many of the features we see in present Mystara were very different before BC 1700. One feature I'm thinking of in particular are the lakes in Rockhome (Stahl and Kilntest). Could these have been a single large lake that was partially drained away during the upheaval?

Are there any other features that could have changed? I'm thinking mostly water (shorelines, rivers, and lakes) but there may be others?
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Chimpman » Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:12 pm

Ok, it's taken me a while to do my Taymora map, and I'm still not completely happy with the results, but I figure I'll post it here and let folks take a look at it.

Taymora BC 2300

Rivers and other water features are still not filled in, nor is most of the terrain in Taymoran territory. I'm also playing around with different mountain configurations - that's just one of them. When you take a look focus on the southern coastline. I tried to use the contours given in the PC3 map along with most of the sunken ruins to determine a good shoreline. I still need to go back and position ruins further inland to try and derive river configurations (which may change my mountain layout).
Last edited by Thorf on Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed a typo.
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Havard » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:06 pm

Chimpman wrote:Ok, it's taken me a while to do my Taymora map, and I'm still not completely happy with the results, but I figure I'll post it here and let folks take a look at it.

Taymora BC 3200

Rivers and other water features are still not filled in, nor is most of the terrain in Taymoran territory. I'm also playing around with different mountain configurations - that's just one of them. When you take a look focus on the southern coastline. I tried to use the contours given in the PC3 map along with most of the sunken ruins to determine a good shoreline. I still need to go back and position ruins further inland to try and derive river configurations (which may change my mountain layout).



I love these historical maps Chimpan. Well done! Wow, its almost difficult to recognize the good old Known World with all the changes it has seen over the centuries :)

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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Chimpman » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:34 am

My eyes must have been pretty tired last night because I missed quite a few underwater ruins while I was devising my shoreline. I've revised it in this map, and included the ruins (now shown as cities in black).

Taymora BC 2300 with cities

I've also found some evidence that the World Mountain may have been volcanic in nature (although it's not shown that way on the map. What do you think?

Gaz 12 pg 54 wrote:Underfoot is what feels like fine volcanic dust.

Of course this could just be attributed to the strange properties of the Spirit World, but there could be some basis for it in the non-spirit world as well.

Another anomaly under the Ruins heading
PC3 pg 50 wrote:To the south of Utter Island, for example, is Colhador. Once upon a time this was an island, inhabited by elves as I'm told, but it sunk untold centuries ago, and now the whole place is filled with muck and monsters.

The text describes Colhador as on an island, however the map clearly shows it as sitting on the edge of a deep pit in the sea - something that would have made a perfect naturally deep bay when the land was elevated, but not something that would have made an island! On my map therefore, I depict it on the edge of a bay (1 hex east and directly south from Halag).
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Gawain_VIII » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:51 pm

Chimpman wrote:I've also found some evidence that the World Mountain may have been volcanic in nature (although it's not shown that way on the map. What do you think?

Gaz 12 pg 54 wrote:
Underfoot is what feels like fine volcanic dust.
Of course this could just be attributed to the strange properties of the Spirit World, but there could be some basis for it in the non-spirit world as well.


Possible, but I would take a look at the description of Thelvyn & company's trip to the World Mount near the end of Dragonlord of Mystara. While the black sand appears to be volcanic, the mountain itself doesn't seem to have the same qualities.

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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Seer of Yhog » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:42 pm

While we're on the subject of the map, I seem to recall that Lake Amsorak's shape may have changed in the distant past. I may have read this in Gaz 11 or 14.

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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Havard » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:32 pm

Chimpman wrote:My eyes must have been pretty tired last night because I missed quite a few underwater ruins while I was devising my shoreline. I've revised it in this map, and included the ruins (now shown as cities in black).

Taymora BC 2300 with cities



It is great seeing this map with cities marked. It also gives some ideas for placing ruins in an AC1000 campaign. :twisted:

I am looking forward to seeing a complete map with the cities of the Shimmering Lands marked off as well... 8-)

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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Chimpman » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:32 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:While we're on the subject of the map, I seem to recall that Lake Amsorak's shape may have changed in the distant past. I may have read this in Gaz 11 or 14.

I may take a look there as well (it's been a while since I opened either up), but let us know if you find something.

Havard wrote:It is great seeing this map with cities marked. It also gives some ideas for placing ruins in an AC1000 campaign. :twisted:

I am looking forward to seeing a complete map with the cities of the Shimmering Lands marked off as well... 8-)

I'll probably end up removing a few of those cities, at least on this map... they were taken from an 8mi/hex map and placed on a 24mi/hex map so some are pretty crowded. For now they are helping me set my mountain ranges and river paths.

And yes, the Shimmering Lands cities are coming :twisted: I've got two so far that will make it onto the 24mi/hex map, although I suspect that an 8mi/hex map will be more informative (but that may take a little longer).

... oh, and I have at least 3 Mogreth cities that I know of that can be placed as well :mrgreen:
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Chimpman » Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:34 pm

Gawain_VIII wrote:Possible, but I would take a look at the description of Thelvyn & company's trip to the World Mount near the end of Dragonlord of Mystara. While the black sand appears to be volcanic, the mountain itself doesn't seem to have the same qualities.


This isn't one that I have. Could you post any of the relevant snippets?
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Re: Outer World: Taymora 2300 BC, 24 miles per hex

Postby Seer of Yhog » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:34 pm

Chimpman wrote:The text describes Colhador as on an island, however the map clearly shows it as sitting on the edge of a deep pit in the sea - something that would have made a perfect naturally deep bay when the land was elevated, but not something that would have made an island! On my map therefore, I depict it on the edge of a bay (1 hex east and directly south from Halag).


Here's my proposal to iron things over...we should assume that the great quake that destroyed Taymor was pretty traumatic, geologically speaking. We're talking about thousands of square miles of land slipping into the sea. I think its perfectly reasonable to expect that parts of the continental shelf subsided, or collapsed, during a quake of that magnitude. Thus, the original continental shelf might have extended much further south. If Colhador had been an island, as official sources indicate, the quake might have sheared off part of the continental shelf, carrying a portion of the island with it. The end result would be a sunken ruin on the edge of a cliff.

What do you think?

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