[Bibliography II] Unofficial Maps - Any Ideas?

Discussion of the Political and Economic Atlas, Gazetteer, Geographic Overview, Cartographic Chronology, and the Appendices.

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[Bibliography II] Unofficial Maps - Any Ideas?

Postby Thorf » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:09 am

I've been thinking that it's about time I started this list. It would be very useful to know exactly what maps are out there. It's quite a daunting task in some respects, but I hope I can simplify it by referring to the maps on the Vaults of Pandius; I will upload thumbnails of those maps to my own site, but the links will point to the maps at the Vaults.

I do wonder how I should be organising the list, though. Arranged by geographical region and scale would perhaps be the most useful, but the Geographical Mapping forum already handles that. And in the context of the Atlas of Mystara, the sources are probably better arranged in another way.

With official sources I split them into sub-groups and then ordered then by date. Perhaps a similar convention could be applied to unofficial maps... for example splitting them by author and then date (although the date is not always known, nor does it always remain constant for fan-made maps), or author and then alphabetically (although that raises problems when maps have to be added, and end up out of order at the end of the list).

Does anyone have any good ideas for how to do this? What do you think about the idea of splitting the maps first according to their cartographer? I quite like how this would work out, giving us a separate section (and a separate thread) for each Mystaran cartographer presenting their work mapping our favourite world.

I think that in the end I will have to accept some form of entropy creeping into these lists, because unlike official maps, unofficial maps are still being made and edited. So whatever system we choose it will end up having stuff tacked on to the end before long.

One other question: for the official sources, I gave each individual source its own post. This allows direct linking/attribution to that source, which is really pretty cool - if you want to check back on the sources for a map, you just click and can see them right away, along with all the other maps that came in that product, and scroll up and down to see the rest of the product line. For unofficial maps, in many cases it may be possible to put them into logical groups and post them together (for example Geoff's Davania maps), but in other cases the maps will stand alone in their own post. This is good because it allows direct linking, and eventually each map can have other information as well as just a link to the map itself (for example linking to the map's key). On the other hand there could be benefits to having one map per post, too. But it makes it quite a bit more work to make a new post each time.

I have already collected a lot of maps, and Shawn's excellent Mystaran Maps page is a great help too. So I want to start getting this list done as soon as possible.

Please let me know what you think. Any feedback at all will be greatly appreciated. :D
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Re: [Bibliography II] Unofficial Maps - Any Ideas?

Postby metal » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:59 am

If it is possible (not sure, that is why I said "IF").......could you have a "sub-forum" or "section" or whatever it is called for each cartographer, with a thread for each of their maps? Revisions or updates of maps would be in the correct thread and new maps could get new threads.

Would this make the Piazza (especially Thorf's map forums) an unwieldy mess? :?

Just throwing an idea out there.........
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Re: [Bibliography II] Unofficial Maps - Any Ideas?

Postby Thorf » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:41 am

metal wrote:If it is possible (not sure, that is why I said "IF").......could you have a "sub-forum" or "section" or whatever it is called for each cartographer, with a thread for each of their maps? Revisions or updates of maps would be in the correct thread and new maps could get new threads.

Would this make the Piazza (especially Thorf's map forums) an unwieldy mess? :?

Just throwing an idea out there.........


I see what you mean. But it would be a bit too much - remember that the Geographical Mapping forum is already here effectively for that purpose, dividing maps up into threads based on location and scale. The only catch is that currently it only features my own maps and replicas of other people's maps that I've made... To be honest I have thought about opening it up to include maps made by other people too. But that would take the focus away from my project, and ultimately make it even harder to maintain.

In any case, I can't presume to ask people to post their maps in my project's forum, so I think the Mystara forum will remain the place for most maps to be posted. And my bibliography thread will serve to index the maps people post.

Going with a different thread for each catrographer is probably going to be the best way to go. Within each person's thread, I could always organise things by roughly chronological order - the Vaults do provide dates for the posting of most maps, even if it's the posting to the Vaults (rather than the file's creation) that they report. That would mean new maps get put at the end of each thread in the correct order. Short of forgetting about (or not knowing about) an old map, things wouldn't go out of order.

Of course, chronological order for fan-made maps isn't very useful... :lol:
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Re: [Bibliography II] Unofficial Maps - Any Ideas?

Postby Thorf » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:59 am

Here's a preview using the first 20 or so maps from Shawn's Mystaran Maps page at the Vaults. Imagine that each cartographer has their own thread, and in most cases each map has its own post, containing other relevant information as well as links related to the map in question.

Christian Constantin

Great Hule & The Midlands, AC 1000, 24 miles per hex by Christian Constantin (1999)
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The Hulean Empire, AC 1000, 8 miles per hex by Christian Constantin (1999)
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Second Hulean Empire (150 AC), non-hex by Christian Constantin (1999)
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First Hulean Empire, BC 750-700, non-hex by Christian Constantin (1999)
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The Nine Kingdoms of the Great Valley (BC 1950), non-hex by Christian Constantin (1999)
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Geoff Gander (Seer of Yhog)

The Empire of Selhomarr, 40 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1997)
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Davania: Adakkian Sound Region, 72 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1996)
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Isle of Cestia, Oceania Region, 72 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1997)
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Denagothian Plateau, 8 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1997)
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Davania: Bay of Pelatan Region, 72 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1997)
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Davania: Izondian Deep Region, 72 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1996)
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Davania - Vulcanian Peninsula Region, 72 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1998)
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Davania - Lost Valley Region, 72 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1998)
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Davania: Jungle Coast-Aryptian Savannah Region, 72 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1998)
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Davania: Aryptian Region, 72 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1998)
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Continent of Lhomarr, 48 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1998/7/28)
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Littonia, 8 miles per hex by Geoff Gander (1998/8/6)
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Timothy Klanderud

Mystara satellite map, non-hex by Timothy Klanderud (date unknown)
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Although this image has a GIF file extension, it is in fact a JPEG.

James Mishler (Mystaros)

Map of the Ancient Nithian Empire, 24 miles per hex by James Mishler (1998)
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Andrew Theisen (Cthulhudrew)

The Great Crater Region, AC 1015, 8 miles per hex by Andrew Theisen (1998/5/11)
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Kingdom of Karameikos, AC 1016, 8 miles per hex by Andrew Theisen (1998/11/27)
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Re: [Bibliography II] Unofficial Maps - Any Ideas?

Postby multizar » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:00 am

Do not forget all the wonderful maps at Thibault Sarlat's Mystara site http://www.mystara.fr/maps/maps.htm

This map in particular http://www.mystara.fr/maps/western_brun/yalumap.jpg could use the Thorf treatment :D

It is another of Christian Constantin's superb maps.
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Re: [Bibliography II] Unofficial Maps - Any Ideas?

Postby Thorf » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:19 am

multizar wrote:Do not forget all the wonderful maps at Thibault Sarlat's Mystara site http://www.mystara.fr/maps/maps.htm

This map in particular http://www.mystara.fr/maps/western_brun/yalumap.jpg could use the Thorf treatment :D

It is another of Christian Constantin's superb maps.


That reminds me, I've been meaning to ask Shawn if it would be possible to add all of Thibault's maps to the Vaults, along with as many of the other maps Thibault has on his site as possible. It's a shame that of all the Mystaran cartographers Thibault is essentially the only one not represented at the Vaults.

(I do have other reasons for making the Vaults collection of maps as complete as possible: as well as just the idea of having a complete online collection, it is also much easier for me to link to the same site all the time rather than a few different sites.)
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Re: [Bibliography II] Unofficial Maps - Any Ideas?

Postby Warwynd » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:02 am

I have mentioned in PM's to Thorf about one of my own mapping projects and he suggested I start a new thread talking about it. i have yet to do so because I went from having 0 jobs to having as many as 3 in the past few weeks, so I am a very busy man. None-the-less, I intend to make up some maps of Zyxyl in 8-mile per hex scale. That said I have a few questions concerning it now.

So does this mean that I should make a new thread entitled Warwynd's Maps or some such for when I finally get around to starting my mapping projects?

If not then where should I post those threads so that they can be found and commented on/contributed to or even critiqued and criticized (constructively of course)?

Also, how do I post an image in here? My HTML skills are terri-bad...
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Re: [Bibliography II] Unofficial Maps - Any Ideas?

Postby Chimpman » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:10 pm

Hey Warwynd,

I can't wait to see your maps man.

Check out the Geographical Mapping subforum. Thorf has stickied a thread titled Introduction and Posting Instructions that covers pretty much all of your questions. Check that one out (it even comes with a posting template!). As for thread title, just follow the convention for threads already in that forum. Don't worry too much about it - Thorf is moderator there and can help out if needed by modifying threads (though he is quite busy these days).

If you still have questions about it, just come back here. I'm also happy to help as I've posted several threads in that forum as well.
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Re: [Bibliography II] Unofficial Maps - Any Ideas?

Postby Warwynd » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:14 am

Thanks Chimpman, I, like Thorf, am suddenly quite busy with work and such, but I do have a number of projects I am working on. I'll tease you all with a small list

  • A map in 8 mile/hex scale of the Island of Zyxyl, including my ideas for what would live there and maybe some rudimentary stuff about it's place in the grander scheme and history of Mystara. (Hint - this will be a relatively new thing to Mystara and therefore quite alien to most of the rest of the cultures therein).
  • West coast area of Brun where a rather large gathering of humanoids and other such monsters live and are forming a new and vast empire to threaten ALL of western Brun and possibly the Known World region as well. (IMC, but feel free to adopt as much or as little as you guys like.)
  • While this is not map or even Mystara related I will am also designing and building a gaming table that is pretty amazing if I do say so myself. I'll include pics. It should make D&D (and all game geeks) pretty happy and should also make technophiles and computer nerds pretty stoked too!

OK, I think that about covers everything for now. Thanks again Chimp. I'll get busy. ;)
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Re: [Bibliography II] Unofficial Maps - Any Ideas?

Postby Hugin » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:35 pm

Hey Warwynd, I'm with Chimpman; really looking forward to seeing your work!
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