Rulers of Blackmoor

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Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Havard » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:44 pm

I've been trying to find out more about the rulers of Blackmoor up to Uther's coronation:

King Robert I of Geneva
First Ruler of the Great Kingdom. Founder of Blackmoor. A reference to Robert Kuntz as King of the C&C Society.

Baron Alveraz
Killed by Barbarians in 985. His ghost still haunts a tower in Blackmoor castle. Played by??

Ra-All the Wise
Succeeds Alveraz. Founds the "Black Hall". He is "promoted" to Earl of Vestfold. Played by??

The Weasel
Succeeds Ra-All as ruler of Blackmoor. Turns traitor. Played by David Wesely?

The Fant
Succeeds the Weasel after driving back the Egg of Coot. Played by David Fant. Eventually becomes the vampire Sir Fang.

Sir Jenkins
Becomes Baron of Glendover(?) Played by Duane Jenkins. Ally of Fant. Became a Vampire-Knigt. Turned by Fant?

Bakura
Co-Regent from 1002, when the council of Regents rule Blackmoor. After Fant has become a vampire? Played by?

Uther's Father
Was he ever the ruler of Blackmoor? Who was he? Bakura?

Uther Andahar
Becomes ruler (Baron) of Blackmoor upon the death of his father in 1005. Becomes King in 1014 after the Great Revolt.


Any more details on these guys?


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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Hugin » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:36 pm

Very interesting Havard. Out of curiosity, where did you find this info?

And as a side question, how does the Blackmoorian dating system match up with the Thyatian one?

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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Havard » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:06 pm

Hugin wrote:Very interesting Havard. Out of curiosity, where did you find this info?
It mostly comes from the First Fantasy Campaign, although Uther is not mentioned there IIRC. The FFC deals mainly with the time when Fant was the Baron of Blackmoor.
And as a side question, how does the Blackmoorian dating system match up with the Thyatian one?
The DA series are set in the Thonian Year 1025-1030, which is around BC4000. I think I used BC4000=TY1025


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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Hugin » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:02 pm

Havard wrote:The DA series are set in the Thonian Year 1025-1030, which is around BC4000. I think I used BC4000=TY1025
So Thonian year 1 would be the founding of the kingdom? City? A battle?

Either way, that seems to suggest a fairly civilized culture as far back as 5000 BC on the Thyatian calendar. Or maybe they weren't as civilized as we think they might have been. That could have even been the birth of the first 'urban' centre. Interesting possibilities anyway.

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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Havard » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:12 pm

Hugin wrote:
Havard wrote:The DA series are set in the Thonian Year 1025-1030, which is around BC4000. I think I used BC4000=TY1025
So Thonian year 1 would be the founding of the kingdom? City? A battle?
The Founding of Thonia by King Robert I of Geneva. (A reference to Robert J Kuntz by the way). Frankly I am wondering if simply moving it to correspond to Thonian Year 1= BC50000 for simplicity's sake..
Either way, that seems to suggest a fairly civilized culture as far back as 5000 BC on the Thyatian calendar. Or maybe they weren't as civilized as we think they might have been. That could have even been the birth of the first 'urban' centre. Interesting possibilities anyway.
Hard to say how civilized they were, but I believe that they had armored horsemen (Knights) at this time.

BTW, Accoring to the Mystaran Timeline, BC5000 marks the Birth of Civilizations on Mystara, making the Thonian Civlization as old as the elven civilization on Evergrun.

As you say, interesting stuff! :)

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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Hugin » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:29 pm

Havard wrote:Hard to say how civilized they were, but I believe that they had armored horsemen (Knights) at this time.

BTW, Accoring to the Mystaran Timeline, BC5000 marks the Birth of Civilizations on Mystara, making the Thonian Civlization as old as the elven civilization on Evergrun.

As you say, interesting stuff! :)

Havard
It's hard to call it the birth of civilization when there are already armored knights on horseback. To me, it makes sense to have the birth of civilization be the beginnings of structured urban culture.
The Founding of Thonia by King Robert I of Geneva. (A reference to Robert J Kuntz by the way). Frankly I am wondering if simply moving it to correspond to Thonian Year 1= BC50000 for simplicity's sake..
[I assume you mean BC5000?]
Do we know anything regarding this "Geneva"? Is it a city, a region, a tribe? Also, is this history part of Known World/Mystara material or other material?

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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Havard » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:35 pm

Hugin wrote:It's hard to call it the birth of civilization when there are already armored knights on horseback. To me, it makes sense to have the birth of civilization be the beginnings of structured urban culture.
Perhaps. Depends on how "armored" they are maybe?
The Founding of Thonia by King Robert I of Geneva. (A reference to Robert J Kuntz by the way). Frankly I am wondering if simply moving it to correspond to Thonian Year 1= BC50000 for simplicity's sake..
[I assume you mean BC5000?]
Yeah, got crazy with the 0's there :)
Do we know anything regarding this "Geneva"? Is it a city, a region, a tribe? Also, is this history part of Known World/Mystara material or other material?
Not sure, but I think its in DA1.
Nothing else is known about Geneva. I'm thinking its a city or very small kingdom (perhaps located next to a lake...) so that Robert was already king of that realm before becoming king of the greater kingdom becoming known as Geneva. Or it could simply be his family name.


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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Havard » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:05 pm

Havard wrote:
Hugin wrote:It's hard to call it the birth of civilization when there are already armored knights on horseback. To me, it makes sense to have the birth of civilization be the beginnings of structured urban culture.
Perhaps. Depends on how "armored" they are maybe?
I gave this some more thought. In the timeline I set up in the Old Ones thread, I made Robert of Geneva a Bronze Age king. It doesnt really make sense to have Thonia exist as an iron age kingdom for a 1000 years prior to Blackmoor's independence.

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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Havard » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:01 pm

Here is a revised version of the list of Blackmoor Rulers:

King Robert I of Geneva (1-38)
The “Dog Duke” (ca 500)
Baron Kargas “Pissaic” Dolmut (ca 600)
Raddan Goss “The Bloody Duke” (805-896)
Baron Calvin (896-927)
Baron Alfred (927-950)
Baron Balfred “the Bald” (950-965)
Baron Alveraz (965-985)
Baron Ra-All “the Wise” (985-995)
Baron Wesely “The Weasel”(995)
Baron Fant (995-1002)
Baron Bakula Andahar (1002-1005)
Baron Uther Andahar (1005-, King from 1014-)

Many of the dates are arbitrary. With Robert I's death, I went with the Company of the Maiden Timeline. As mentioned earlier, I have linked Kargas Dolmut from the ZGG books with Pissaic from the FFC. I did the same thing with Raddan and the Bloody Duke, thus connecting newer material with the original stuff. Raddam is a half-elf with a life span of up to 180 years, so the canon reign of 91 years isn't as crazy as I first thought. For the others I assumed an average of 30 years. For the lesser known Barons, I went with the idea that they were Barons in the same order as they appear in the FFC. That is fairly arbitrary, but in most cases we have nothing else to work with.

Although I don't know this for a fact, I speculate that Bakula (sometimes Bakura) is Uther's father. Bakula was both Baron of Blackmoor and Co-Regent of Vestfold. When he died, Uther became Baron of Blackmoor, and later king of the independent realm.

I have more details on each ruler on the way, but I wanted to get the order of succession ready first.

Thoughts?

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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by RobJN » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:55 pm

I was under the assumption that Uther's father succeeded Baron Alveraz. (Uther having been born the year of Alveraz' demise, 985)

By your timeline, then the destruction of Blackmoor City and its rebuilding were at the end of Ra-All's reign, and the second seige was on Fant's watch.

For some reason, I thought their turns at the reigns of the barony were much further back along the timeline...
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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Cthulhudrew » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:12 pm

Don't see anything in DA1 about what Uther's father's name was (and I doubt it would be mentioned in either of the other three modules, so I didn't check). It does mention that Uther returned home from his schooling in Thonia prior to his father's death, whereupon he often argued on behalf of technological innovation before his father (until the latter's death against Skandaharian raiders).

That's about all I could find on the matter.
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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Havard » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:43 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:Don't see anything in DA1 about what Uther's father's name was (and I doubt it would be mentioned in either of the other three modules, so I didn't check). It does mention that Uther returned home from his schooling in Thonia prior to his father's death, whereupon he often argued on behalf of technological innovation before his father (until the latter's death against Skandaharian raiders).

That's about all I could find on the matter.
Thanks Andrew!
Do you think it is too much of a tweak to make Bakula into Uther's father? Bakula is co-regent of Vestfold at the time, canon offers no information about who ruled Blackmoor after Fant's removal from offical. When Uther's father dies, Uther becomes the Baron of Blackmoor and there is no talk of any ruler of Vestfold after this, as it is controlled by the Regents Council/Thieves Guild/Wizards Cabal.

An alternative is to come up with another name for Uther's father, perhaps Constantine Andahar, as Constantine was Uther Pendragon's father according to some sources.

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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Yaztromo » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:31 pm

Havard wrote:Baron Ra-All “the Wise” (985-995)
Wasn't he Earl of Vestfold instead? Or was he both Baron of Blackmoor and Earl of Vestfold?
I had the impression that there was a single Thonian ruler (that sometimes moved his sit from Blackmoor to Vestfold and vice versa) but I may well be wrong.
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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Zeromaru X » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:11 am

Don't forget about Maragaine, although we don't know were to place her chronologically.

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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Yaztromo » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:07 pm

I'm a bit confused: in the FFC (page 13), we have "Blackmoor Military Power Distribution (Initial)" and we have Baron Fant, Baron Jenkins and Earl of Vestfold. They appear to be in charge all at the same time and not consecutively, as in your proposal.
From the fact that the Earl of Vestfold (Ra-All the Wise) re-laid down the foundations of Castle Blackmoor (seat of Baron Fant) it sounds like the overall leader of the country was the Earl and the Baron(s) was his vassal at the time, with the formal "capital" of the lands moved to Vestfold.
Perhaps Ra-All the Wise started his "career" as Baron of Blackmoor and when he was promoted Earl of Vestfold he was replaced by Baron Fant in Blackmoor Town.

Overall I think there is a bit of confusion between who is the "ruler" of Blalckmoor Town and who is the "ruler" of all the lands that are more recently known as "Kingdom of Blackmoor".
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Re: Rulers of Blackmoor

Post by Havard » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:00 pm

Yaztromo wrote:I'm a bit confused: in the FFC (page 13), we have "Blackmoor Military Power Distribution (Initial)" and we have Baron Fant, Baron Jenkins and Earl of Vestfold. They appear to be in charge all at the same time and not consecutively, as in your proposal.
From the fact that the Earl of Vestfold (Ra-All the Wise) re-laid down the foundations of Castle Blackmoor (seat of Baron Fant) it sounds like the overall leader of the country was the Earl and the Baron(s) was his vassal at the time, with the formal "capital" of the lands moved to Vestfold.
Perhaps Ra-All the Wise started his "career" as Baron of Blackmoor and when he was promoted Earl of Vestfold he was replaced by Baron Fant in Blackmoor Town.

Overall I think there is a bit of confusion between who is the "ruler" of Blalckmoor Town and who is the "ruler" of all the lands that are more recently known as "Kingdom of Blackmoor".
Yes, this is the conclusion I reached as well regarding Ra-All the Wise.

Note that the "country" would have been the Thonian Empire up to when Uther declares independence.

In Britain, the title of Earl became synonymous with Count, the ruler of a county. In the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, a Count, rules at least 3 lesser dominions. It is possible that Blackmoor, Vestfold and some of the other Baronies were all folded into a single County at the time when Ra-All was promoted. Or there could have been other Earls of Vestfold before Ra-All's promotion.




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