The Sohktari Manscorpions

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The Sohktari Manscorpions

Postby Havard » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:49 pm

The Sohktari Manskorpion Culture came up in this thread.

Chimpman wrote:
hyrieus wrote:It may also be useful to consider which cultures should exist in the Hollow World, e.g.
The Sohktari manscorpions (possibly in the Nithian desert)
Chambahara, the shapechangers of Sind (the could exist unseen in one of the cities of Shajapur)

Sharon D has placed these two (or something like them) in the Hollow Moon setting - though there's always room for more in the HW as well ;) The manscorpions are especially problematic for the HW due to their very severe sun allergy, which is why Sharon chose to place them in the darker environ of the HM. However nothing says that some form of the Sohktari coulnd't be preserved in the HW before their curse.



hyrieus wrote:I was thinking of the original Sohktari, before they were cursed by Ixion and gained their vulnerability to sunlight, though Dragon 192 does note that they still called themselves Sohktari even after they had lost Ixions' favour. presumably some of them stayed true to their patron and were rewarded by being whisked away the Hollow World to bask in eternal sunlight.


So I guess these were from the Nimmur origins history by Bruce Heard?

What is known about them?

The HWA trilogy also features a small colony of Manscorpions in the Nithian Desert, so there is already a precedence for them living there. Could these also be realted to the Sohktari? What is known about this specific Manscorpion culture? Would they still be followers of Ixion?

-Havard

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Re: The Sohktari Manscorpions

Postby ripvanwormer » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:09 pm

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Re: The Sohktari Manscorpions

Postby Big Mac » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:12 pm



Nice. I don't see the Hollow World manscorpions mentioned over there, with the Planescape, Maztican and Dragon Strike manscorpions.

Do you think there is a chance they could be related?

Or would you just suggest cross-raiding of sources in various products?

Would the Maztican manscorpions be a better fit in the Hollow World, than the Planescape ones?
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Re: The Sohktari Manscorpions

Postby Havard » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:52 pm

Big Mac wrote:


Nice. I don't see the Hollow World manscorpions mentioned over there, with the Planescape, Maztican and Dragon Strike manscorpions.

Do you think there is a chance they could be related?

Or would you just suggest cross-raiding of sources in various products?

Would the Maztican manscorpions be a better fit in the Hollow World, than the Planescape ones?


The article Rip links to assumes that the Manscorpions of the City of Brass are descended from the Manscorpions of Nimmur, which is a Mystaran breed of Manscorpions. As mentioned in my original post in this thread, the assumption is that the Sohktari Manscorpions of the Hollow World are also descended from Nimmur.

I was not aware of Maztica and Dragon Strike having Scorpionfolk. I actually assumed Manscorpions were unique to Mystara and BECMI prior to 3rd Edition which refers to them as Scorpion-folk rather than Manscorpions which I believe is a BECMI term. However, based on Rip's material it also appears that there are Scorpionfolk in the Greyhawk setting.

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Re: The Sohktari Manscorpions

Postby Cthulhudrew » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:20 pm

Havard wrote:The HWA trilogy also features a small colony of Manscorpions in the Nithian Desert, so there is already a precedence for them living there. Could these also be realted to the Sohktari? What is known about this specific Manscorpion culture? Would they still be followers of Ixion?


The manscorpion clan from HWA2 is very small (a handful of them, IIRC) and one of the key facets of their inclusion is to demonstrate the power of the Spell of Preservation, as I recall. If the PCs attempt to slay them all (justly, as they are evil and violent) the SoP will kick in to save them. Presumably, then, there must be something unique and different enough about this one clan that would set them apart from any other manscorpion cultures in the HW.

They don't have the Sohktari vulnerability to light, but that was a later development in the VotPA series. Given that and the bit about being unique enough to be saved by the SoP, I'd suggest that they are not Sohktari but a different group of manscorpions. Maybe the Sohktari wiped out a larger group of rival (non-cursed) manscorpions in the area and these were the only survivors.
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Re: The Sohktari Manscorpions

Postby ripvanwormer » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:41 pm

Havard wrote:The article Rip links to assumes that the Manscorpions of the City of Brass are descended from the Manscorpions of Nimmur, which is a Mystaran breed of Manscorpions. As mentioned in my original post in this thread, the assumption is that the Sohktari Manscorpions of the Hollow World are also descended from Nimmur.

I was not aware of Maztica and Dragon Strike having Scorpionfolk. I actually assumed Manscorpions were unique to Mystara and BECMI prior to 3rd Edition which refers to them as Scorpion-folk rather than Manscorpions which I believe is a BECMI term. However, based on Rip's material it also appears that there are Scorpionfolk in the Greyhawk setting.


A half human, half scorpion creature appeared in MC11, the Monstrous Compendium Forgotten Realms Appendix Volume Two, as the "tlincalli." The tlincalli was reprinted as part of the 2nd edition Monstrous Manual (page 245) as the manscorpion. The tlincalli and the Monstrous Manual manscorpion are identical except the MM version has a short paragraph about the Maztican gods that they worship taken out.

A different creature called a manscorpion (its statistics are completely different) appeared in WGR3 Rary the Traitor, a 2nd edition sourcebook for the World of Greyhawk setting. This source described the ancient kingdom of Sulm, which was transformed into the Bright Desert due to a curse that also transformed its inhabitants into manscorpions. The WGR3 manscorpion is somewhat more human in appearance than the tlincalli; the tlincalli is hairless and has only three fingers, while Sulmish manscorpions have humanlike hands and hair on their heads.

The tlincalli reappeared in 3rd edition in Monsters of Faerun, called stingers in that source. The stinger is a fair bit weaker than 2nd edition tlincalli, but they're supposed to be the same monster.

The scorpionfolk in the 3rd edition Monster Manual II is an unrelated creature based on the sandmasker from the Creature Collection, a monster sourcebook for the Scarred Lands setting. It was included in the MMII as part of a short-lived experiment by Wizards of the Coast in adapting Open Gaming Content from d20 publishers to official D&D books.

The various kinds of scorpionfolk vary greatly in statistics and power level. One obvious difference: the sandmasker is lawful evil, the tlincalli is neutral evil, and the Sulmish manscorpion is chaotic evil.

The manscorpion from the D&D Companion Rules is different from all of those.

The 2nd edition Nimmurian manscorpion from the Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium is essentially identical to the tlincalli except for the added sunlight vulnerability and some information on the Red Curse and its Legacies, some notes on their translucent bodies and habit of wearing masks, and a modified habitat/society information. The information on Maztican gods from the original tlincalli description is replaced with information on Mystaran Immortals.

The Secrets of the Lamp boxed set for Al-Qadim listed manscorpions among the creatures enslaved by the efreet of the City of Brass. The armed forces of the City of Brass includes 2,000 javelin-armed slave-soldiers called the Black Darts. This unit is completely comprised of manscorpions. Secrets of the Lamp doesn't specify whether these are tlincalli or Sulmish manscorpions or Nimmurian manscorpions; it was my idea to make them mainly a mix of Nimmurian manscorpions from Mystara and Sulmish manscorpions from Oerth.
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Re: The Sohktari Manscorpions

Postby Khedrac » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:40 am

Personally I would say that "manscorpion" is a Gloranthan RuneQuest term that has managed to jump across into D&D...
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