Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

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Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Havard » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:35 pm

Rules Cyclopedia
Bear, Cave
Cat, Great: Sabre-Tooth Tiger
Crocodile, Giant
Dinosaur, Aquantic: Small
Dinosaur, Aquantic: Large
Dinosaur, Aquantic: Armored
Dinosaur, Land, Carnivore: Small
Dinosaur, Land, Carnivore: Large
Dinosaur, Land, Carnivore: Flying
Dinosaur, Land, Herbivore: Small
Dinosaur, Land, Herbivore: Medium
Dinosaur, Land, Herbivore: Large
Elephant, Prehistoric (Listed as Mastodon in B/X)
Neanderthal /Cave Man (Brute-Man in HW)
Plesiosaurus
Pterosaur: Small (Pterodaktyl)
Pterosaur: Medium (Pteranodon)
Pterosaur: Large (Pterosaur)
Triceratops
Tyrannosaurus Rex

AC2 Creature Catalog
Cat, Great: Spotted Lion
Dinosaur: Allosaurus
Dinosaur: Ankylosaurus
Dinosaur: Brontosaurus
Giant Elk
Megateherium
Rhinoceros, Wooly
Garl (Humanoid)

X2 Isle of Dread
*Note: Only listing creatures not found in the above sources:

Dinosaur: Dimetrodon
Grangeri
Phororhacos (Sword Beak)
Trachodon

Hollow World Boxed Set
*Note: Only listing creatures not found in the above sources:

Archaeopteryx (*A flightless bird)
Aurochs
Bison, Giant
Flapsails
Ichtyosaurus
Lizard, Thumper
Pachycephalosaurus
Phobosucus
Pisanosaurus
Pteranodon, Giant
Reindeer, Giant
Stegosaurus

Supplemet 2: Blackmoor (OD&D)
*Note: Only listing creatures not found in the above sources:

Dinosaur: Elasmosaurus
Dinosaur: Mosasaurus
Dinosaur: Plesiosaurus

Some thoughts:
I have generally not included creatures listed as "Giant Animal type X" (Giant Fish, Giant Weasel, Giant Shrew etc) to the list. There are also many other creatures that could be appropriate for the setting. The ones I have added have been those specifically mentioned as Lost World creatures. I also included the Giant Elk because the entry says they are preyed upon by Sabre-Tooth Tigers.

Do you think other creatures should be included?

Do other BECMI etc sources include other types of Dinosaurs or prehistoric creatures?

What Dinosaurs and Megafauna has appeared in later editions that was never available in BECMI or OD&D?

-Havard

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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Sturm » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:47 am

Well all the giant types could be included if we assume they were more common in the past during the "megafauna period". But this is not the case if you assume they are somehow more recent magical creations. I would prefer to have them as megafauna, but it's just my preference.

I found this about AD&D dinosaurs: http://www.lomion.de/cmm/dinosau1.php and http://www.lomion.de/cmm/dinosau2.php and http://www.lomion.de/cmm/dinosau3.php and http://www.lomion.de/cmm/dinoaqua.php

3ed dinosaurs : http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Dinosaur and Pathfinder: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monste ... /dinosaur/

I think Jamie Baty/Traianus posted a lot of 3ed stats for dinosaurs now on the Vaults http://pandius.com/traianus.html

It seems 4ed had not specific stats: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread ... -dinosaurs

and 5ed (but homebrew) https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dinosaurs_(5e_Creature)
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Cthulhudrew » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:22 pm

The list of dinosaurs from my in-progress BECMI compendium:

Dinosaurs

Allosaurus (AC9 13, X1 30, CC 29)
Ankylosaurus (AC9 13, HWAdv 21, X1 30, CC 29)
Bounder (HWAdv 17)
Brontosaurus (AC9 13, HWAdv 21, X1 30, CC 29)
Dimetrodon (X1 30, CC 29)
Dinosaur, Aquatic (RC 165, MD 26) - Generic "catchall" template for any non-specific aquatic dinosaurs
Dinosaur, Land Carnivore (RC 165, MD 27) - Generic "catchall" template
Dinosaur, Land Herbivore (RC 165, MD 27) - Generic "catchall" template
Epanterias (HWAdv 20) - This is listed as "Allosaurus" in HWAdv, but its stats differ quite a bit from the other Allosaurus entries, so I reclassified it as the dubiously classified Epanterias
Ichthyosaurus (HWAdv 23)
Lizard, Rockhome (G6 73) - Is noted as possibly being an ancestor of the lizard man
Lizard, Thumper (HWAdv 24) - Probably a Compsognathus
Lochnar (X13 62) - seems to be some kind of aquatic dinosaur like a plesiosaurus
Nothosaurus (HWR1 30)
Pachycephalosaurus (HWAdv 17)
Phobosuchus (HWAdv 24)
Pisanosaurus (HWAdv 25)
Plesiosaurus (RC 201, HWAdv 25, X1 32)
Pterosaur, Small (RC 201, EX 54, HWAdv 26) - This is most likely a Pterodactyl
Pterosaur, Small (RC 201, EX 54, HWAdv 26) - This is most likely a Pteranodon
Pterosaur, Large (RC 201, HWAdv 26)
Skinwing (G13 39) - These are distantly related to pterodactyls, but are more modern
Stegosaurus (LBX 40)
Stegosaurus (HWAdv 27) - The stats on these two versions of the Stegosaurus vary quite a bit
Tanystropheus (HWR1 31)
Trachodon (X1 32, CC 29)
Triceratops (RC 209, HWAdv 28)
Triceratops (EX 56) - Another case where the two versions vary considerably; one is probably a related creature, such as a Styracosaurus or the like
Tylosaurus (AC9, CC 29)
Tyrannosaurus Rex (RC 210, EX 57, HWAdv 28)

Prehistoric Animals

Archaeopteryx (HW 21)
Archelon (HWR1 27, CC 29)
Aurochs (HWAdv 21)
Bear, Cave (RC 159, BD 26, HWAdv 22)
Bison, Giant (HWAdv 22)
Boar, Great (RC 162) - This is likely intended to be some kind of Entelodont
Cat, Sabre-Tooth Tiger (RC 163, BD 27)
Crocodile, Giant (RC 164, EX 47) - Likely something like Sarosuchus
Elk, Giant (AC9 15, X1 30, CC 9)
Flapsail (HWAdv 23)
Grazer (DA3 37, DA4 37) - Possibly. These are from Blackmoorian times, but could they possibly be much older?
Hyenodon (HWR1 28, CC9)
Indricotherium, Baluchitherium (HWR1 28, CC 9)
Indricotherium, Grangeri (AC9, X1 31, CC9) - Both of these creatures seem to have been intended to be the same, but they have different stats, so I have made a distinction between them
Megatherium (AC9 17, X1 31, CC9)
Phororhacos (AC9 75, X1 32, CC 9)
Pony, Krugel (HWAdv 26) - included here because they are noted in a Hollow World product specifically
Quarg (DA3 40) - a slightly different version of an Ice Wolf, introduced in a Blackmoor product. Possibly an ancestor of modern Ice Wolves?
Rhinoceros, Woolly (AC9 20, Cc 87)
Riding Animal, Small (HWAdv 26) - Catchall template for Kubitt-sized animals, which may be small dinosaurs or early mammal ancestors (such as Eohippus)
Serpent, Feathered (HWA2 61, HWR1 28)
Titanothere (AC9 13, CC 9)
Viper, Flying (HWAdv 29)
Wakaleo (DR 186)

Other
Carnifex (M3)
Lycanthrope, Werejaguar (HWR2 29, CC 72)
Lycanthrope, Weresabretooth (HWAdv 16)
Neanderthal (RC 196, BD 34)

Abbreviations Used

HWAdv: Hollow World Adventurer's Guide
HWR1: Sons of Azca
RC: Rules Cyclopedia
CC: Creature Catalog (DMR2)
AC9: Creature Catalogue
BD: Basic DM's guide
M3: Twilight Calling
EX: Expert rules book
X#: Expert module
LBX: Expert rules book (light blue box)
MD: Master DM's book
DA#: Blackmoor adventure series
G#: Gazetteer series
HWA#: Hollow World adventure module series
DR: Dragon magazine
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Cthulhudrew » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:27 pm

I missed a couple in skimming my entries that I note Havard picked up (such as the Mastodon/Prehistoric Elephant). Also, I didn't include several that would certainly fit, such as the giant versions of creatures (or the Dire Wolf). I did note, and have noted in my work, that some of the entries for the "same" creature actually have differing statistics in different sources. When these sources vary drastically, I have tried to find a related creature name to distinguish them.

I am also in the process of trying to find better, non-scientific names for these creatures, notably the dinosaurs. It seems kind of silly to me to have characters calling them by their modern names. I have been using the names given in Burroughs' Pellucidar series, and trying to work out some names for the (many) creatures he didn't reference therein.
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby RobJN » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:23 pm

I think my PC, having encountered one or another of the big, pointy-teethed dinosaurs, would quite simply call it "Oh (@#$%@*# ! Run!!"
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Birchbeer » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:13 pm

Dragon Magazine (Per DragonDex ) had these articles on dinosaurs:


Here are the Prehistoric mammals:


Other Prehistoic:


If I get some time later I'll grab the names from each article.
Last edited by Birchbeer on Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Yaztromo » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:16 pm

It is not statted for D&D, but I think that The Prehistoric Pit is a really nice one on this topic and can be easily converted, if required: http://fightingfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/F ... ic_Pit.pdf
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Birchbeer » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:14 pm

Here's the breakout from Dragon (Sorry, this is a long post):


Issue 112 reclassifies some of the dinosaurs from the original monster manual. The article also breaks out which dinosaurs are present in which time period (Triassic, Jurassic, Cretaceous).
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Birchbeer » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:29 pm

Here's the Prehistoric Mammals (Another long post...):
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Birchbeer » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:38 pm

Paleozoic Creatures (Note: Dimetrodon and Edaphosaurus (Trilobites) belongs here, not with the dinosaurs ;)
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Birchbeer » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:44 pm

Lastly are weird "bugs" from different eras (All from Dragon 204):



I believe the above is "guesses" about what some of them looked like as the fossil record (well back in April 1994) was incomplete on them. Honestly, if you could see them weird definitely comes to mind... :)
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Big Mac » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:50 pm

Havard wrote:What Dinosaurs and Megafauna has appeared in later editions that was never available in BECMI or OD&D?


There is actually something called Megafauna in Spelljammer canon, although there are no D&D stats for it. They exist inside a crystal sphere called Herdspace. (Herdspace is a dyson sphere, so you are looking at Hollow World expanded to the size of a solar system.) The Megafauna of Herdspace are so large that they leave gigantic footprints that fill with water to become large lakes. (There is something even larger called Starbeasts. They are world-sized creature. You definitely wouldn't fit one of them inside the Hollow World.)
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Birchbeer » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:44 pm

So given that Ka was a Tyrannosaurus rex and he only started to use the Hollow world after his ascension into Immortality dinosaurs before the late Cretaceous period should not be present. Granted some dinosaurs/earlier creatures could have been brought there by time immortals.
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby ripvanwormer » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:55 am

Birchbeer wrote:So given that Ka was a Tyrannosaurus rex and he only started to use the Hollow world after his ascension into Immortality dinosaurs before the late Cretaceous period should not be present. Granted some dinosaurs/earlier creatures could have been brought there by time immortals.


The Hollow World boxed set says he appears as "a huge allosaurus-like reptile." Wrath of the Immortals calls him "a dinosaur much like an Allosaurus." Allosaurus lived 155 to 150 million years ago. Tyrannosaurus lived 68 to 66 million years ago.

Also, it says that he's like an allosaurus rather than that he is an allosaurus, so it's possible he's a similar creature from a very different time period. He might conceivably be a carnifex.

Of course, geologically (given the shape of its continents in comparison to our own Earth) Mystara is still in the Cretaceous-Jurassic era.

Using real-world geological history is problematic in Mystara for another reason: even on Mystara's surface world, dinosaurs never went extinct. The Isle of Dread includes populations of allosaurus (155 to 150 million years ago on our world), dimetrodon (295–272 million years ago), and trachodon (which never existed on our world, since it's a griffon-like combination of duckbill and ceratopsid). So even if Ka was born during Mystara's equivalent of the late Cretaceous, he could have preserved surviving populations of allosaurus and dimetrodon from the Isle of Dread, or wherever they lived at the time (it seems reasonable to imagine they were more widespread then, and the Isle of Dread itself probably didn't exist in its current form).
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Birchbeer » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:37 am

All good points Rip, Mystara has lots of peculiarities our world doesn't. For some reason I thought Ka was a tyrannosaurus Rex ;)
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby ripvanwormer » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:08 am

On the other hand, in the Savage Tide adventure path, the prehistoric animals on the Isle of Dread migrated there from Demogorgon's plane, so if you go with that maybe (non-avian) dinosaurs did go extinct on the surface world.
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Cthulhudrew » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:14 am

ripvanwormer wrote:Also, it says that he's like an allosaurus rather than that he is an allosaurus, so it's possible he's a similar creature from a very different time period. He might conceivably be a carnifex.


I've always felt that Ka was an early ancestor of the Carnifex, myself.
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Cthulhudrew » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:15 am

ripvanwormer wrote:On the other hand, in the Savage Tide adventure path, the prehistoric animals on the Isle of Dread migrated there from Demogorgon's plane, so if you go with that maybe (non-avian) dinosaurs did go extinct on the surface world.


IIRC, there are dinosaurs that show up in the Savage Coast module (X9), and possibly in Quagmire! (X6) as well. I don't recall offhand where else, but those locations seem rather distant for landbound dinos to have reached from the Isle of Dread.
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby ripvanwormer » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:35 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:IIRC, there are dinosaurs that show up in the Savage Coast module (X9), and possibly in Quagmire! (X6) as well. I don't recall offhand where else, but those locations seem rather distant for landbound dinos to have reached from the Isle of Dread.


Possibly Demogorgon (or her servants) opened portals to her domain in multiple parts of the world.

Or maybe they're just survivors from previous aeons.
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Re: Dinosaurs and Beasts of the Lost World

Postby Robin » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:50 am

Havard wrote:Do you think other creatures should be included?

Do other BECMI etc sources include other types of Dinosaurs or prehistoric creatures?

What Dinosaurs and Megafauna has appeared in later editions that was never available in BECMI or OD&D?

-Havard


In my Mystara Monster Manual Compilation book chapter animals (MMMC animals) http://pandius.com/Monster_Manual_2.pdf
I have a whole section on all Dinosaurs I saw mentioned anywhere in Mystara sources.
Pleistoscene animal page 71 to 79, 108, 141, 160, 244,253, 461, 462-463, 481-483,
prehistoric; 135 to 136, 170 to 233, 313, 324, 341, 375, 394, 484

Hope this will help your search?? :P
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