Hollowdeep - Shadowdeep/Underdark of the Hollow World

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Havard
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Hollowdeep - Shadowdeep/Underdark of the Hollow World

Post by Havard » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:26 pm

Does the Hollow World have an Underdark? What realms can be found there?

ICIRIA
  • Schattenalfen Caves - This is the most obvious realm and probably the largest
  • Hutaakan Valley - Does this valley have its own version of Kartoeba from B10?
  • Beastman Wastes - Some Beastmen have undoubtedly ventured deeper below the surface. What has happened to them?
  • Kogolor Dwarves - These live in the mountains. Why don't they dig deeper?
  • Krugel Horde (Orcs) -
  • Kingdom of Nithia - I could see an entire kingdom of Undead here ruled by a Lich Pharaoh.
  • Kingdom of Milenia -
  • Merry Pirates - Possibly nothing here?
  • Tanagoro Kingdoms
  • Blacklore Elves
  • Traladar Kingdoms
  • Malpheggi Lizardmen
  • Neathar Tribes
  • Icevale Elves -
  • Brute Men
  • Jennite Horseriders
  • Kubbits
  • Gentle Folk (Elves) - I could see something like Deep Glaurants here given their presence under the Five Shires.
  • Antilian Kingdoms -
  • Kingdom of Azca
  • Oltec Lands
  • The Lighthouse - Is there an underdark version of the Lighthouse too?
Can you help me fill out the list above?

I would assume the Burrowers would be found in these caves. How deep does the Spell of Preservation run?

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Re: Hollowdeep - Shadowdeep/Underdark of the Hollow World

Post by agathokles » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:03 pm

Since the cave systems go all the way to the Hollow World, there will certainly be some degree of Hollowdeep. As you correctly say, the Shattenalfen are its primary inhabitants.
Regarding the Kogolor Dwarves, these are pre-GRoF, pastoral dwarves. I think it would detract from them to have them identical to their surface relatives, so I'd avoid making them a primarily underground race.
As for Kartoeba, it depends on what it is. If it is OB-related, then it is unlikely to have been preserved by the Immortals. Also, I'd avoid as a general rule duplicates -- you already have Kartoeba vs Hutaakans in the Outer World, why duplicating it in the Hollow World?
It would be interesting to have an underdark Lighthouse, OTOH.

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Re: Hollowdeep - Shadowdeep/Underdark of the Hollow World

Post by Cthulhudrew » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:45 pm

Havard wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:26 pm
Does the Hollow World have an Underdark? What realms can be found there?
Indubitably. I know there have been some threads/conversations about it in the past, though I don't recall where (might have been on one of the previous versions of the board). I think we had come up with a different term for it than Hollowdeep, though.
Schattenalfen Caves - This is the most obvious realm and probably the largest
Agreed with this.
Hutaakan Valley - Does this valley have its own version of Kartoeba from B10?
Like Giampaolo, I wouldn't give them another Kartoeba. It didn't seem to necessarily have any relevance to why/how the hutaaka ended up in the Hollow World, so I'm not sure it makes sense to put another one there.

That said, I did come up with a Burrower inhabiting the hutaaka valley for the hutaaka gazetteer that some of us worked together with Mischa Gelman on years ago. (Not a subterranean creature.) I could see some subterranean hutaaka/lupin related races living in the region, though.
Krugel Horde (Orcs)
This one I'm torn on. Orcs are certainly traditionally more subterranean folk, but the Krugel horde are really based around ranching and horseriding (and raiding) so I'm not sure they fit the mold of subterranean races. Then again, the acculturation of the Krugel to their current makeup took place in a really, really short time (it almost seems like it must have mostly happened in the Hollow World), so who knows? Maybe some other orcish subraces would be more fitting. I definitely think there is a place for Red Orcs in the Krugel lands (albeit not necessarily subterranean dwellers).
Kingdom of Milenia
Trladar Kingdoms
Oltec Lands
Antalian Kingdom
As to all of the above (which I've sort of grouped together), these cultures all have- at least in their RW analogues- definite discussions of underworlds in their collective mythologies. While that can be simply contextualized to creation/religious mythology and ascribed to Outer Planar locales (such as Limbo, etc.), I think there is also something intriguing about assuming a more literal explanation: that these myths of underworlds may be linked to the world underneath the Hollow World (or even just to vague memories of life on the other side of the planar crust).

To whit, Incan creation myths of emergence from the underworld to the world they now live in have a very telling comparison to the idea that the Oltecs- who once lived on the outer world- now live inside the world. The Greek underworld was viewed as literally being underneath the Earth's crust- so might there be a sort of "Elysian Fields" inhabited by shadows under Traldar lands? Or even Titanic figures trapped beneath the Hollow World (perhaps those could be how Traldar myth explains the Burrowers?)

To this list I would also add the Azcan- we know there are some underground dwellers in Azcan lands (the Gruquotec followers of Wastoure. By canon, they are altered Brute-men, but the name and location would seem to suggest they should have been Beastmen instead. I don't know if that was a mistake by the author or intentional.)
Merry Pirates - Possibly nothing here?
The Merry Pirates are an interesting and kind of difficult lot at times, but maybe there was once a group of evil/roguish dwarves with rockships that terrorized the outer world but were defeated and preserved before they completely were eliminated?
Brute Men
See above about the Gruquotecs, but additional to that, I could certainly see that Brute men might have retreated en masse into the underworld as more and more outsiders began to arrive and displace them.
I would assume the Burrowers would be found in these caves. How deep does the Spell of Preservation run?
I think the illustrations in the DM's Guide to the Hollow World (and on the map) depict the range of the SoP. It's been a while since I looked at them. I'm pretty sure it doesn't extend beyond the World Shield, except possibly in some spots where there have been breaks in the World Shield.

Also, don't forget the Graakhalians who are at least partially displaced to the HW after the WotI (per PWA1012, I believe.) They migrated through the land.

Icevale Elves also migrated through the crust; is it possible that some groups of them remained within the caverns before emerging?
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Re: Hollowdeep - Shadowdeep/Underdark of the Hollow World

Post by RobJN » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:24 pm

Havard wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:26 pm
I would assume the Burrowers would be found in these caves. How deep does the Spell of Preservation run?

-Havard
I seem to remember HWA1 Nightwail mentioning (and the Nithian HW Gazetteer reinforcing the idea) that the Spell of Preservation was powered by -- if not tied to -- the central sun.

Which leads me to think of some serious EPIC QUEST-ness involving heroes having to pacify Burrowers recently stirred by those digging too greedily by either placing or replacing a number of sacred receptacles steeped in the light of the Hollow World's sun within X number of yards of the horrors, thus lulling them back to their slumber....
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Re: Hollowdeep - Shadowdeep/Underdark of the Hollow World

Post by Sturm » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:31 pm

I wrote an article in issue 14 of Threshold,
Through the Shadowdeep, from Karameikos to the Hollow World: http://pandius.com/thru_sdp.html.
I imagined an Upper Hollowdeep mostly inhabited by Shattenalfen, followers of Entropic deities and failed experiments, then a Middle Hollowdeep inhabited mostly by intelligent saurials, amphibians and other reptilian creatures. All these people have something “wrong”, or are tainted by Outer Beings, burrowers, entropic immortals or all of them. Then there is a Lower Hollowdeep inhabited by by very ancient races, such as aranea, manscorpions, hivebroods, formians, other intelligent insects, myconid and other intelligent fungi, intelligent oozes and worms such as scamilles and wurmlings, decapus, geonids and rockmen. The main difference between those living in this region of the Hollowdeep and those living on the Hollow World surface or the Outer World is that usually the populations in the Hollowdeep have something “wrong” which prevented them from living under the red sun below, or the yellow sun above.
They may be infected with some sort of undeath or lycanthropy, cursed or corrupted by the Burrowers, followers of entropic immortals or something else entirely.
Finally there is the Burrowdeep, and you can imagine what lives there..
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