Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic Brotherhoods/Sisterhoods/Alliances

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Havard
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Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic Brotherhoods/Sisterhoods/Alliances

Post by Havard » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:00 pm

Reading X9 and Tortles of Purple Sage, I have rediscovered organizations referred to as the Lawful Brotherhood, the Neutral Brotherhood and the Chaotic Sisterhood (also the Chaotic Brotherhood, but I suspect that may be a typo?). This once again brings up the question of what happened to these?

I think someone suggested (Bruce may even have confirmed?) that the LB trading company is a reference to the Lawful Brotherhood. Even if there is a connection there; is a trading company all that is left of this brotherhood? Or have these organizations been turned into Honorbound Companies? Is there an overview of Honorbound Companies anywhere? Also, where did the brotherhoods/sisterhoods come from in the first place? Are they immigrants from the Known World, or were they formed by native humans? Would Robrenn and Eusdria be involved here?

Also, Tortles of Purple Sage talks about Alliances:

The Lawful Alliance
Base: Yazak Steppes
The Lawful Brotherhood
Lupins
Dervishes (Connected to Saragon???)
Tortles

The Neutral Alliance
Base: Bylot Hills
The Neutral Brotherhood
Rakasta
Nature Worshipping Pagans (Robrenn?)
Flock-herding Nomads

The Chaotic Alliance
Base: Great Northway aka Yalu River
The Chaotic Sisterhood
Aranea
Snappers
Orcs, Trolls, Ogres
Natives (Oltecs???)

The modules suggests making peace between the Neutral and Lawful Alliances would be a worthy goal. If this succeeded it might explain more civil relations between Renardie and Bellayne?

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Re: Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic Brotherhoods/Sisterhoods/Alliances

Post by Cthulhudrew » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:15 pm

Havard wrote:Reading X9 and Tortles of Purple Sage, I have rediscovered organizations referred to as the Lawful Brotherhood, the Neutral Brotherhood and the Chaotic Sisterhood (also the Chaotic Brotherhood, but I suspect that may be a typo?). This once again brings up the question of what happened to these?
Have no fear, Havard! I've been reading up on these things recently myself. All the Savage Coastal activity has renewed my interest in the region as well, and I've got some info that may help you here!
I think someone suggested (Bruce may even have confirmed?) that the LB trading company is a reference to the Lawful Brotherhood.
This is correct. We first learn of this in Dragon #176/VotPA #23, in the Cimarron entry.

The Lawful Brotherhood was the first group to set up operations in the Savage Coast, on the Claw Peninsula in the area now known as the Old Fort. Later they were joined in the region by other immigrants. The Lawful Brotherhood became defunct as a clerical body eventually, only surviving as the LB Trading Co.

Red Steel expanded upon this somewhat, declaring that the second wave of colonists were the Ispans, and giving us a rough framework for the timeline (which I'll reprint from my own work in progress for you):

900 A new wave of colonists reaches the eastern Savage Coast, including people from Ylaruam, Yavdlom, and the Thyatian Empire... (yadda yadda; all old stuff from the main timelines)
The Lawful Brotherhood, an order originating in the City-States, are among the arrivals. They locate their first outpost at the tip of the Claw Peninsula, in the region now known as the Old Fort (from Guadalante/Cimmaron entry in SC Campaign book).
902 The Barony of Narvaez is founded along the coast by an expedition of Ispan people from the distant Thyatian Empire... (etc.)
The first Ispan settlement (in lands claimed by Narvaez) is Nueva Esperanza (New Hope) which is located near to the LB Outpost. (From Guadalante/Cimmaron entry)
905 Nueva Esperanza declares its independence from Narvaez and is allowed to secede peacefully. They begin to trade with the Lawful Brotherhood. (From Guadalante/Cimmaron entry)
Lawful Brotherhood trading posts begin to appear along the coasts.
936 Sotto declares war on Gargoña; after a few months, Gargoña conquers Sotto and absorbs all but the southern portion, which organizes into the State of Almarrón. The official name of the culture of all baronies except Vilaverde and Texeiras is changed from Ispan to Espan; the language spoken is Espa.
939 The State of Almarrón declare war on the undesirable gringos of Nueva Esperanza. Almarrón quickly takes over the entire Claw Peninsula. Some of the Brotherhood of Order go into hiding, while a small sect become the LB Trading Company and maintain many of the group's trading posts. (From Guadalante/Cimarron entry)
Even if there is a connection there; is a trading company all that is left of this brotherhood?
They are mostly now just the LB Trading Co. Tim Beach had some remnants of the Order end up forming the Brotherhood of Order (Inheritors group) in the Red Steel stuff.
Is there an overview of Honorbound Companies anywhere?
Not a comprehensive one, but here are some from Eusdria:

Order of the Immortals (Paladins and “defenders”)
Knights of Eusdria (Honorbound)
Company of the Wolf (rangers)
Myrmidons
Order of the Unicorn
Company of the Bear
Warriors of the Sea
Knights of Niedegard
Knights of Harstal (wear red armor and black and gold tabards; in league with Heldannic Knights)
Also, where did the brotherhoods/sisterhoods come from in the first place?
In Red Steel, the LB traces its origins to the City-States. Presumably, given their interest in the LB's doings in X9, the Brotherhood of Light probably traces its origins there as well.
Would Robrenn and Eusdria be involved here?
I expect there should be some kind of connection, if only due to the location of Dunwick (originally an LB Trading Post) near to Eusdria. I imagine there have been ties in the histories of these nations, but nothing directly (ie, they weren't formed by Eusdrians or Robrennese).

As for your Chaotic Brotherhood, it's really unclear from X9 (one of many vagaries about that module that are irritating), but I get the impression from entry 10: Forbidden River Outpost that the Chaotic Brotherhood is some kind of evil clerical organization that posed as Lawful Brotherhood members in order to stage a raid on their Orc's Head outpost. Perhaps they were attempting to infiltrate the SC themselves, but with different intent from the LB (X9 almost makes the LBs as protectors of the natives of the SC, by discouraging settlement and exploitation of the region. Later depictions of them raise the question of motive, however, as why would they then set up trading posts if they wanted to prevent exploitation of the natives?)
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Re: Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic Brotherhoods/Sisterhoods/Alliances

Post by agathokles » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:10 am

I think X9 doesn't give an account of the origins of the three aligned societies -- they are just supposed to be missionary orders of some sort.
In my LB writeup, I've traced the origins of the LB further back to the Midlands, reusing the ideas from Christian Constantin's Hule (the Temple of Chaos vs Way of the Law fight gives structure to most of his Hulean timeline).

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Re: Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic Brotherhoods/Sisterhoods/Alliances

Post by Havard » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:20 pm

Cthulhudrew wrote:
Havard wrote:Reading X9 and Tortles of Purple Sage, I have rediscovered organizations referred to as the Lawful Brotherhood, the Neutral Brotherhood and the Chaotic Sisterhood (also the Chaotic Brotherhood, but I suspect that may be a typo?). This once again brings up the question of what happened to these?
Have no fear, Havard! I've been reading up on these things recently myself. All the Savage Coastal activity has renewed my interest in the region as well, and I've got some info that may help you here!
Excellent Andrew! I seemed to remember you talking about this topic some years ago. We're having a regular Savage Coast renaissance here aren't we? 8-)
I think someone suggested (Bruce may even have confirmed?) that the LB trading company is a reference to the Lawful Brotherhood.
This is correct. We first learn of this in Dragon #176/VotPA #23, in the Cimarron entry.

The Lawful Brotherhood was the first group to set up operations in the Savage Coast, on the Claw Peninsula in the area now known as the Old Fort. Later they were joined in the region by other immigrants. The Lawful Brotherhood became defunct as a clerical body eventually, only surviving as the LB Trading Co.

Red Steel expanded upon this somewhat, declaring that the second wave of colonists were the Ispans, and giving us a rough framework for the timeline (which I'll reprint from my own work in progress for you):
Ah that's excellent! It seems a little strange that more hasn't been preserved of this group though. Perhaps they still exist as a sort of Knights Templar organization? 8-)


Is there an overview of Honorbound Companies anywhere?
Not a comprehensive one, but here are some from Eusdria:
Thanks!

Also, where did the brotherhoods/sisterhoods come from in the first place?
In Red Steel, the LB traces its origins to the City-States. Presumably, given their interest in the LB's doings in X9, the Brotherhood of Light probably traces its origins there as well.
I like the idea of connecting some of this to Hulean history as well, like Wilhelm mentioned in the other thread, but the connection to the City States also makes sense. Would that mean Halav and Petra would be some of their patrons then? The Brotherhood of Light does seem to have had a hold in Slagovich. My first idea was that they would be followers of Ixion, but I don't know if that fits with the overall picture?

Edit: From Christian Constantin's timeline, I noticed that he has Ixion as the head patron of the LB. IMO it would make more sense to have the Brotherhood of Light being Ixions followers originating in Hule, while the Lawful Brotherhood would be a Traladaran organization as there is some rivalry between the two.

Would Robrenn and Eusdria be involved here?
I expect there should be some kind of connection, if only due to the location of Dunwick (originally an LB Trading Post) near to Eusdria. I imagine there have been ties in the histories of these nations, but nothing directly (ie, they weren't formed by Eusdrians or Robrennese).
As posted elsewhere, I think it would make sense to have the nature-worshipping Pagans be ancestors of the Robrennese.

As for your Chaotic Brotherhood, it's really unclear from X9 (one of many vagaries about that module that are irritating), but I get the impression from entry 10: Forbidden River Outpost that the Chaotic Brotherhood is some kind of evil clerical organization that posed as Lawful Brotherhood members in order to stage a raid on their Orc's Head outpost. Perhaps they were attempting to infiltrate the SC themselves, but with different intent from the LB (X9 almost makes the LBs as protectors of the natives of the SC, by discouraging settlement and exploitation of the region. Later depictions of them raise the question of motive, however, as why would they then set up trading posts if they wanted to prevent exploitation of the natives?)
Again, a connection between the Chaotic Brotherhood/Sisterhood and the Temple of Chaos in Hule would be interesting. If working for Hule, the main purpose of the Chaotic Brotherhood could be to destabilize (or maintain unstability) in the region to make sure they wouldnt be a threat to Hule. The LB would probably see themselves as protectors, perhaps justifying their actions by saying that if someone else were to run those trading posts it would be worse? Perhaps they would also argue that trading posts would be less of a threat to the natives than full scale colonization, but yes their ethics are questionable. Perhaps it is a case of them being Lawful more than Good. Champions of Law might see "less developed" societies as more prone to Chaos and would seek to "modernize them". A sort of "White Man's Burden" mentality?

The Nomads and Pagans are allied with the Rakasta. How does that fit, assuming that the Pagans are Robrennese ancestors? And what about those Dervishes?

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