Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

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Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by Havard » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:20 pm

With all these Nightmare-related threads around, I've begun thinking about how the Dimension of Nightmares affect the Savage Coast as well. I find it interesting that the Malfera and the Ostegos are included in the Savage Coast MMC. Does this suggest that the Dimension of Nightmares has more agents in this part of Mystara? Perhaps this could be connected to the Aranea?

What about the Wallara and their Dreaming?

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Re: Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by Hugin » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:49 pm

Havard wrote:Does this suggest that the Dimension of Nightmares has more agents in this part of Mystara? Perhaps this could be connected to the Aranea?

What about the Wallara and their Dreaming?

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That's a very interesting connection! Food for thought.

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Re: Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by Chimpman » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:16 pm

Havard wrote:What about the Wallara and their Dreaming?
I think this is brilliant! I like the aranea connection as well, but there is so little additional work on the Wallara that I think it makes sense to tie it in with them. And... they are reptilian in nature... perhaps there is a carnifex connection as well (somewhere in the distant past)?
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Re: Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by Havard » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:19 pm

Chimpman wrote:I think this is brilliant! I like the aranea connection as well, but there is so little additional work on the Wallara that I think it makes sense to tie it in with them. And... they are reptilian in nature... perhaps there is a carnifex connection as well (somewhere in the distant past)?
(boldface mine)

I really like that train of thought.....


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Re: Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by Chimpman » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:42 pm

Havard wrote:
Chimpman wrote:I think this is brilliant! I like the aranea connection as well, but there is so little additional work on the Wallara that I think it makes sense to tie it in with them. And... they are reptilian in nature... perhaps there is a carnifex connection as well (somewhere in the distant past)?
(boldface mine)

I really like that train of thought.....
You know... here is another interesting thought. The Herath aranea spent a lot of time and energy creating servitor races (not that any of them really worked out all that well)... but all of those races happen to be reptilian in nature. Does there exist some fragment of carnifex lore within Herath? That sounds like a great idea for a SC adventure!
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Re: Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:04 pm

Chimpman wrote:You know... here is another interesting thought. The Herath aranea spent a lot of time and energy creating servitor races (not that any of them really worked out all that well)... but all of those races happen to be reptilian in nature. Does there exist some fragment of carnifex lore within Herath? That sounds like a great idea for a SC adventure!
Given where Herath is located, it would not have been too far from Y'hog or any of the colonies on Brun. It would be quite reasonable to expect that the aranea either came across the knowledge, or were taught it by the Carnifex at some point in the distant past.
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Re: Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by Chimpman » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:08 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Chimpman wrote:You know... here is another interesting thought. The Herath aranea spent a lot of time and energy creating servitor races (not that any of them really worked out all that well)... but all of those races happen to be reptilian in nature. Does there exist some fragment of carnifex lore within Herath? That sounds like a great idea for a SC adventure!
Given where Herath is located, it would not have been too far from Y'hog or any of the colonies on Brun. It would be quite reasonable to expect that the aranea either came across the knowledge, or were taught it by the Carnifex at some point in the distant past.
Slight thread-jack, but I'm wondering what kind of impact this might have on the Hollow Moon setting. Could there be some remnant of old carnifex culture preserved in Aran and the Wallaran Dreamscape? Could some portion of the Nightmare realm have been moved inside the HM along with the Wallara (although once there it would be cut off from the actual dimension of nightmares due to the properties of the Matera)? What would the Pteryx do if they ever found out about it? Sounds like it could be fun.
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Re: Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by Cthulhudrew » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:20 am

Havard wrote:I find it interesting that the Malfera and the Ostegos are included in the Savage Coast MMC.
I don't recall the Ostegos/Death Demons in the Savage Coast MMC. Are you thinking of the Narvaezan Fiend (which has similar artwork)?
What about the Wallara and their Dreaming?
I wrote an article on a possible Chameleon Man/Nightmare Dimension connection ages ago at the Vaults that might be of interest to you.
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Re: Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by hyrieus » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:12 pm

As a further point on a possible Carnifex connection, the Aranea inflicted a spell of forgetting upon the Wallara. The other place in Mystaran lore where such a spell is used is Nithia. I rather like the idea that the whole impetus behind the spell of oblivion wasn't to eradicate the influence of Thanatos upon Nithia, after all Nithian culture was transported to the Hollow World along with worship of Thanatos. The purpose of the spell was to eliminate an Outer Being or Carnifex influence.

I think you could establish a whole Unknown Mystara theme around the OB's and Carnifex. The telepathic Kopru and shapeshifting Aranea should also belong in there too. Nithia already has links to the SC and Aranea are connected to Nithia via Thothia. A mystara version of Apophis of the Egyptians for example could have a link to the Carnifex. As for the Nightmare dimension I think that the Vaults has an article discussing the Immortal, Outer Being and Nightmare intersect through the old Gold boxe's dimensional theory.

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Re: Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by Chimpman » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:35 pm

hyrieus wrote:As a further point on a possible Carnifex connection, the Aranea inflicted a spell of forgetting upon the Wallara. The other place in Mystaran lore where such a spell is used is Nithia. I rather like the idea that the whole impetus behind the spell of oblivion wasn't to eradicate the influence of Thanatos upon Nithia, after all Nithian culture was transported to the Hollow World along with worship of Thanatos. The purpose of the spell was to eliminate an Outer Being or Carnifex influence.
I tend to agree with you about the purpose of the SoO - especially since such a spell effects the prime material and immortals are usually banned from tampering in such direct ways. I'd think that the casting of the SoO would have had to have had support from all spheres - including entropy. Why would they condone the wiping out of one of their greatest plots... unless the corruption of Nithia involved more than just Entropy. It makes a lot more sense to me if it involves the OBs.
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Re: Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by hyrieus » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:26 pm

I had a look through Gaz 2 for possible Carnifex influence and to my delight found that it was all over the place. Ylaruam, and therefore Nithia is located over a lizardmen empire "ancient beyond imagining, their tombs having been buried by ice sheets 4,000 years ago" (p49), and the lizardmen seek "the Ancient Donimion of the Reptile Races" (p51). Carnifex anyone?

Furthermore, The Dead Place, the site of the struggle between Thanatos and the Immortals leaves the exact nature of the entites present somewhat vague, "Things leaked out under an edge, and are still leaking", ancient wormholes, ancient creatures and otherworldly beings are seeking to establish a beachead. There's nothing specific about either fire elemental or necromantic forces, so prehaps they were covers for something even more insidious corrupting Nithia, and that can only be the Carnifex and ultimately the Outer Beings.

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Re: Dimension of Nightmare and the Savage Coast

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:24 am

hyrieus wrote:I had a look through Gaz 2 for possible Carnifex influence and to my delight found that it was all over the place. Ylaruam, and therefore Nithia is located over a lizardmen empire "ancient beyond imagining, their tombs having been buried by ice sheets 4,000 years ago" (p49), and the lizardmen seek "the Ancient Donimion of the Reptile Races" (p51). Carnifex anyone?
That was actually the tidbit that led to the creation of Mogreth, which is definitely Carnifex-inspired.
hyrieus wrote:Furthermore, The Dead Place, the site of the struggle between Thanatos and the Immortals leaves the exact nature of the entites present somewhat vague, "Things leaked out under an edge, and are still leaking", ancient wormholes, ancient creatures and otherworldly beings are seeking to establish a beachead. There's nothing specific about either fire elemental or necromantic forces, so prehaps they were covers for something even more insidious corrupting Nithia, and that can only be the Carnifex and ultimately the Outer Beings.
I missed that reference! Thank you very much - you've just uncovered something that fits very nicely into my timeline of Mogreth! :twisted:
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