A rough map of the whole Southold region

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LoZompatore
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A rough map of the whole Southold region

Post by LoZompatore » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:52 am

While I was working around Thorf's project about the icosahedron map I made this collage of various maps covering the whole Savage Coast, Trident Bay and Yazak Steppes area (the region that was called "Southold" in the old Mentzer's map).

I post it here - even if it is a very rough mass of hexes and places - just to give you an idea of the canon-covered area west of the Black Mountains. I used mostly old maps, but patches of the new ones (taken from Savage Coast and Savage Baronies modules) are included where some connection was needed.

The best, of course, would be a big 24-miles/hex map covering the whole area: the large map from Savage Baronies overlaps over most of the collage given here, so it could be used as a reference, but I don't think it would be an easy task anyway. Most of the oldest maps (especially X5) are quite in contrast with each other...

Here is the map (click the link below to download the full resolution picture):

Image
http://it.geocities.com/lutetius00/Mappe/Southold.jpg

I think that the relative placements of the various area are correct. The most difficult to place was probably the map of Hule from X5, but I think its location in the map above is quite close to where it should be.

Some minor remarks:

- The "newest" map pathces in central Hule and in the northern Trident Bay come from Savage Baronies map, which in my opinion is the most detailed large scale map of the area, though it is not hexed. The northern end of these two patches coincides with the northern end of the Savage Baronies map, so you have an idea of the whole area covered by it.

- As you see, Hulean cartography is quite a mess: X5 map landmarks in central Hule (especially rivers) do not coincide very well with the Savage Baronies ones. Savage Baronies map shows also a different forest coverage of the area south of Tros Lake (by the way, a check with CoM map shows that also the forest east of the lake is quite different from X5 map).
Notice also that the city in central Hule at the crossing of the major rivers is called "Khuur" in CoM map, and "Kizil" in Savage Baronies map. I was thinking if it could be a good idea to keep both names and say that this city is actually made of two different settlements divided by the river (in a way similar to the settlements of Buda and Pest who eventually joined to form the modern city of Budapest).

- Anyway, you could make an updated map covering most of Hule by merging the info from Savage Baronies map with CoM or PWAI maps. The NW tip of Hule covering the northern half of Tros Lake and Greatrealm is mapped only in the X5 module, but it is a small tip anyway.

- The estuary of the Yalu river was moved a couple of hexes southward between the Dungeon Magazine #6 map and the Savage Baronies map. I would keep the Savage Baronies info, because it is more recent and also because the coastline and the other landmarks seems to match quite well with the original Dungeon map.

- The relative positions of the Immortal's Arm and the Orc's Head peninsula are different depending on the modules. In Dragon Magazine #200 and in a Savage Coast map the mapped area of the Arm is moved northward in order to have Nimmur facing Puerto Maldicao, while in Savage Baronies map and in the general Mentzer/Mystara map the configuration is as I mapped above. Of course I chose the Savage Baronies solution ;)

- Notice how big the Dravish area was (it covers at least the big triangle in the NW area of the map) with respect to Hule or the Savage Coast. Hule itself (at least in its original extension, without Sind and the northern Great Waste) is not so big with respect to the whole Savage Coast nations as a whole, after all.

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JoeNotCharles
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Re: A rough map of the whole Southold region

Post by JoeNotCharles » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:20 pm

Forest coverage could easily have changed over a few decades. Rivers get diverted as well. You could put down changes to anything but mountains and coastlines to different time periods, I think.

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Cthulhudrew
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Re: A rough map of the whole Southold region

Post by Cthulhudrew » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:23 pm

LoZompatore wrote:Notice also that the city in central Hule at the crossing of the major rivers is called "Khuur" in CoM map, and "Kizil" in Savage Baronies map. I was thinking if it could be a good idea to keep both names and say that this city is actually made of two different settlements divided by the river (in a way similar to the settlements of Buda and Pest who eventually joined to form the modern city of Budapest).
I like that notion. Perhaps at some point the two will become conjoined and be known as Kizilkhur (sounds like a RW city, actually).

I never noticed that Renardy colony up along the Arm of the Immortals before, either. Interesting.

Really like the complete picture, there. Good work!
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stanles
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Re: A rough map of the whole Southold region

Post by stanles » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:03 am

JoeNotCharles wrote:Forest coverage could easily have changed over a few decades. Rivers get diverted as well. You could put down changes to anything but mountains and coastlines to different time periods, I think.
coastlines can also change over that sort of time period, especially in a lot of this area. Sand movement, estuary advancement. In other areas there might be volcanic events, ice movement. These could all be reasons for normal coastline change over smaller time periods.
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happylarry
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Re: A rough map of the whole Southold region

Post by happylarry » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:21 am

This is very helpful

I presume the big black and white map that isn't from X5 is from Dungeon?

what do all the letter mean?

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Re: A rough map of the whole Southold region

Post by Rimx » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:49 am

LoZompatore wrote:The most difficult to place was probably the map of Hule from X5, but I think its location in the map above is quite close to where it should be.

- As you see, Hulean cartography is quite a mess: X5 map landmarks in central Hule (especially rivers) do not coincide very well with the Savage Baronies ones. Savage Baronies map shows also a different forest coverage of the area south of Tros Lake (by the way, a check with CoM map shows that also the forest east of the lake is quite different from X5 map).
A mapping error was made with the Voyage of the Princess Ark maps. The maps from X5 and X9 were overlapped instead of joining the maps at their borders. X5 was placed about 5 24 mile hexes further south than it should have.
happylarry wrote: I presume the big black and white map that isn't from X5 is from Dungeon?

what do all the letter mean?
The map is from Dungeon 6.

A,B,C- The starting points for the pcs land,coastal, and open sea routes respectively.
D- Richland Trading Post
E- Tall Grass Coast landing
F- Empty Valley River landing
G- Savage Gulf Beach landing
H- Reef Point landing
I- Yazak Steppes cliff landing
J- Mud Water Cove landing
K- Great Northway Mouth landing
L- Cropland
M- Great Northway Waterfall
N- Floating island
O- Surfers
P- Cliff Divers
Q- Muddy Water
R- Dravya ruins
S- Bylot ruins
T- Yazak ruins
U- Ring-shaped earth mound
V- Two semicircular earth mounds
W- Tortle-shaped earth mound
X- Tortle egg-laying gound

Here are random area encounters.
1- Tidal Bore
2- Skurge (sperm whale)
3- Distant Thunder
4- Rare Spices
5- Deadly Whirlwind
6- Beach Rubble
7- Salt Water Drifter
8- Sea Dragon
9- Plagues from the Sky
10-Menace from Above
11-On the Move
12-On the Rocks
13-Valuable Minerals
14-Neutral Alliance Patrol
15-Phanaton Expedition
16-Aranea Traps
17-Chaotic Alliance Camp
18-Lawful Alliance Patrol


Here's the key for the map that I posted on the old forum.
Savage Coast Map Key.
Dungeon #6 Pg. 43, 46 wrote: Below is a general key to the regions shown on the map. The key gives only a brief description of most areas. You may flesh out individual encounter areas with your own information. To read the map, start in the lower right corner and read clockwise around the face.

Sand Beach. This sandy, rolling stretch of land extends as far inland as one can see from the shore. The sandy shore is dotted with tall grass which forms dunes. Over the crests, the dunes sprout shrubbery that forms a blanket of grass clumps and bushes all the way north to the Yazak Steppes. Sand beach strecthes from the Gulf of Hule to the Orcs Head Peninsula.

Claw Peninsula. Named after Claw inlet which lies beside it, this sandy peninsula jabs into the Western Sea. The New Hope River meets the sea here. The New Hope Lawful Brotherhood Cleric Outpost Stands at the tip of this Peninsula.

New Hope River.This navigable waterway can be sailed for at least 150 miles inland. Native Villages, overhanging branches and hostile vegetation provide adventure.

Camel Hump. This windblown bulge of camel-colored sand dunes and beach grasses presses out into the Western Sea. Dust devils skip along the beach obliterating footprints in a matter of minutes.

Twin Island Peninsula. This flat-topped sandstone finger of land points to matching islands offshore. The peninsula's 100'-tall cliffs serve as the rookeries of many sea birds. It's coastline is rocky.

Twin Islands. These look-alike islands are made of light grayish brown sandstone. They were cut off from the mainland peninsula by the ceaseless erosion of wave action. The flat, bush covered tops of the islands are surrounded by 100'-tall sandstone cliffs, dropping to rocky coast lines. (Beware of the tyrannosaurus that lives here, according to module X9.)

Dream River. This waterway is navigable for over 75 miles inland. Strange vegetation inhabits these waters, and the Lawful Brotherhood Second Chance Cleric Outpost stand beside the mouth of this river.

Western Sea. This body of salt water lies south of the Savage Coast. It connects with the Gulf of Hule, Claw Inlet, Helmet Bay, and the Choke. The deepest parts of the Western Sea are the haunts of oversized sea monsters.

Claw Inlet. This curving natural harbor connects the New Hope River with the Gulf of Hule. Each spring, thousands of small edible fish crowd this narrow inlet to lay eggs on the beach and then die.

Helmet Bay. This Body of water once appeared on maps as a flattened, double-horned helmet. The Dream river flows into the eastern horn point. A sandstone reef lies just beneath the surface of this bay. Mermaids, marine decapi, and mysterious sea creatures inhabit this bay. Aranea lairs have been found inland, and fortified snapper egg-laying grounds have been found along the coast of Helmet Bay.

The Choke. This smooth cove marks the end of Sand Beach and the beginning of the Orcs Head Peninsula. The Peaceful Lawful Brotherhood Cleric Outpost stands beside the mouth of the Choke River.

Orcs Head Peninsula. This oddly-shaped land mass, lying southwest of the Grass Plains, is a continuation of the Savage Coast.

Dark Jungle. This unexplored area is a subtropical forest with clinging vines and low-lying shrubbery. Gargantuan white apes inhabit this jungle. Daily thunderstorms drench the forest and feed rivers and streams which wind to the surrounding seas. Wildlife abounds in this region, especially along the winding banks of the Forbidden River. The River is navigable for at least 75 miles inland but is prone to flash flooding. The rain forest's coastline is muddy. PC's may mistake the Forbidden River for the Great Northway. The demolished Forbidden River Lawful Brotherhood Clerc Outpost stands beside the mouth of the Forbidden River.

Forbidden Highlands. Grass and Deciduous trees cover these rolling hills. Several of the peninsula's meandering rivers start in these highlands. The region is marked by beautiful waterfalls, where the rivers plummet 50-100' over rocky cliffs. The ruins of the Lost city of Risilvar lie in the Forbidden Highlands.

Safe Harbor Peninsula. This point of land is an extension of the muddy Dark Jungle coastline. (Module X9 mistakenly locates an tortle egg-laying ground on the tip of this peninsula. It is more likely a fortified snapper egg-laying ground.)

Safe Harbor. The calm waters of this inlet are protected by the nearby Safe Harbor Peninsula.

The Horn. The peninsula is the start of a rugged, rocky coastline much like the nearby Trident Isles.

Trident Isles. These rocky, mountainous islands resemlbe the tips of a huge underwater, three-tined spear. There is an orc village on one of these islands. The other two are uninhabited.

Trident Bay. This sheltered body of salt water lies north of Orc Head Peninsula. Its northern extreme is partially marked by the Trident Isles. Dangerous reefs lie in Trident Bay. A phanaton settlement is located inland from the southern coast of the bay.

Savage Gulf. This stormy body of water lies west of Orcs Head Peninsula and the Grass Plains. Windswept waves scar the surface of the gulf and buffet its eastern shoreline.

The Bayou. This marshy, sluggish body of water is a confusing maze of water routes which connect Shady River to Trident Bay. A Large cay-man compound is located in the heart of the Bayou.

Shady River. Large deciduous trees overhang tis multi-branched waterway. Shady River empties into The Bayou and is navigable for hundreds of miles inland. PCs may mistake Shady River for the Great Northway.

Tall Grass Coast. A narrow layer of rich, dark topsoil nourishes tall grasses along this muddy coastline. The charred ruins of the Seaveiw Lawful Brotherhood Cleric Outpost lie beside the mouth of a short river along the coast.

Empty Valley. This 150'-deep rift valley contains little soil and fresh water. There is almost no plant or animal life. Empty Valley once held the Great Northway river, but an ancient earthquake changed the river's course. A deep, rocky valley now scars the Yazak Steppes. The stone canyon walls show both water erosion and geologic upheaval. A slight trickle of fresh run-off water sometimes splashes in muddy torrents from the cliff walls during flash floods caused by distant thunderstorms. Salt water from the Savage Gulf has infiltrated the sunken valley, making the chasm navigable by large ships for hundred of miles inland.

Mud Water Cove. At the extreme north end of the Savage Gulf, the cool, muddy-brown water is shallower and less salty than in the rest of the gulf.

The Great Northway. This wide, Powerful river empties into the Mud Water Cove. It is navigable for thousands of miles inland except for a giant waterfall 240 miles from it's mouth.

Grass Plains. All the lands north of Sand Beach and east of the Savage Gulf is called the Grass Plains. The Dominant feature of the area is the Yazak Steppes, sometimes called the Dravish Steppes by the people of Hule.

Yazak Steppes.This vast, semi-arid, grass-covered plain is veined with tree-lined streams separated by rolling hills. Large herds of migrating animals move across the land, grzing with the seasons. Blooming purple sagebrush fills tje air with a pleasant aroma.

Dry Flats. Rain rarely falls on this arid wasteland. Little plant or animal life can survive here.

Bylot Hills. These hot, dry hills are covered with dense thickets of shrubs and small trees. The rugged terrain is pockmarked with caves and burrows.

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happylarry
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Re: A rough map of the whole Southold region

Post by happylarry » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:07 pm

thanks for the thorough answer!

I like these threads which gather all the canon information we have together to make sense of it.

Maybe one day I'll run an 'ancient' campaign usign X6, X9 and some other stuff here - or just an alternative AC1000 campaign with fewer points of civilisation

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Wilhelm
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Re: A rough map of the whole Southold region

Post by Wilhelm » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Hi guys!
I added another thing to LoZompatore's combined map (hope you don't mind! ;)), also from X5. I took it from Thorf's version of the map, in order to make it easier to see The Great Escarpment and Rio Copos position. I hope it's more or less what it should be.
Image

Unfortunately, VotPA regional maps don't help much about this, since that of Robrenn and of Eusdrian contradict each other abot the relative position of Rio Copos and New Hope River.
Image

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Re: A rough map of the whole Southold region

Post by Havard » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:12 pm

Cool map Wilhelm!
This covers alot more than what is detailed in just the Red Steel boxes, am I right?

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Re: A rough map of the whole Southold region

Post by Thorf » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:15 pm

Havard wrote:Cool map Wilhelm!
This covers alot more than what is detailed in just the Red Steel boxes, am I right?
You can see the borders of the Red Steel map in the image. The other sources add extra details around some of the edges, but it's a bit patchy. Still, we ought to be able to expand the map quite nicely by adding everything together.

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