Filling the Western Sea

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Saunatonttu
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Filling the Western Sea

Post by Saunatonttu » Tue May 27, 2008 8:38 pm

One thing that has always wanted me to do something is the HUGE amount of empty sea south from the Savage Coast - afterall about half of the area of the poster map is plain blue with no extra features.

Well, just so happenes that I am running a pirate themed game nominally set in the world of Greyhawk, and I started thinking. Savage Coast would be a much more sensible place to put the stuff I've been using in my pirate game than a "caribbean" somewhere in Greyhawk.

Green Ronin's Freeport and the whole Serpent's Teeth chain is used, as is the Tri-Island area of Monkey Island computer games (especially the Melee Island featured in the first and fourth games). So without any further thought I put 1 and 1 together:

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(apologies to Thorfinn Tait for bastardising one of his maps)

That's not a real placement, I guess there is plenty of room south and east/west of the coast when the true ocean opens, but I just whipped that thing up to give a general idea of what I'm thinking. Does it make much sense? Probably not. Do I think mixing the Savage Coast stuff to Freeport and Monkey Island might be entertaining? Yeah.

Err, has anyone else tried to fill the seas south of Savage Coast with something?
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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by Thorf » Wed May 28, 2008 5:03 am

Hi Saunatonttu! Nice to see one of my maps put to good use. :D

I love your idea of merging various pirate things into one to make a pirate campaign - especially Monkey Island! I'm a big fan of that series.

Come to think of it, pirate culture is probably one of the best excuses to bring together a whole lot of sources to your game, if you are interested in such things. And there are a ton of great pirate settings to pick and choose from! Most recently we had Pirates of the Caribbean, which had some great ideas and characters in it. Obviously Monkey Island is a classic, and offers a ton of in-jokes if your players are familiar with it. ("I'm selling these fine leather jackets!" That one's an in-in-joke, of course.) But I would make Melee Island a bit smaller, I think, and preferably incorporate some of the other islands.

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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by Cthulhudrew » Wed May 28, 2008 5:13 am

I'd also add that the Vilaverdans and Texeirans should probably play no small role in any Savage Coastal pirate nests (Vilaverdans in particular, if I remember my Savage Coast lore properly).
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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by Saunatonttu » Wed May 28, 2008 6:23 am

But I would make Melee Island a bit smaller, I think, and preferably incorporate some of the other islands.
Yeah, Melee should be smaller, that is true. And I figure the islands should be further off the coast (the Izondian Deep is a very large sea area anyway) and not so close together anyway. This first attempt was more for concept than real mapping. Just to give me and others some idea of my mix-match piratey area. The whole Monkey Island area will be included, and one thing I am pretty certain is using certain Isle of the Ape as the D&D equivalent of the Monkey Island itself. I'll see what I come up with during the weekend...
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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by Cthulhudrew » Wed May 28, 2008 7:09 am

In regards to the Isle of the Ape you mentioned, there is an Albino King-Kong like ape (possibly more than one) in the original X9: Savage Coast module. I don't think the Gargantua template from the Companions set had come out at the time X9 came out, so the ape might have just been a large White Ape, but either way, you might go with a Gargantua version... perhaps that's yet another area where old Gargantua was playing around.
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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by Havard » Wed May 28, 2008 9:40 pm

Monkey Island is awesome!

I think my players would kill me if I did something like that though. Still, filling out the water filled areas is a good idea.

The Freeport Isles aka the Serpent's Teeth are alot smaller if you want to use the official scale for them. I placed them in the western Thanegioth, not far from the Serpent Peninsula, giving the Serpent's Teeth name more meaning :)

One Island I would like to add some day is the Island of Holm from the Faerytale Adventure game that I used to play on my Amiga back in the 80s. I have a map of the island (or continent) somewhere.

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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by Cthulhudrew » Thu May 29, 2008 12:55 am

I just rechecked X9 and it was indeed a Gargantuan white ape that appears therein (a couple, actually). They live in the Dark Jungle, at the tip of the Orc's Head Peninsula. So maybe moving the Isle of the Ape to an island off of that region would be a good location for you.
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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by multizar » Thu May 29, 2008 3:58 pm

I would have to respectfully disagree on filling in the water areas. Mystara is soooooo huge if you consider both the outer and hollow worlds. Now, I am not against putting in some small islands just about anywhere a DM sees fit. I just think that adding whole new civilizations without exploring what we already have is not the way I would go....or at least put it in the Hollow World :lol:
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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by Eric Anondson » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:28 pm

Continuing my digging through threads I've missed. . .
Saunatonttu wrote:Err, has anyone else tried to fill the seas south of Savage Coast with something?
Indeed I had developed some ideas. Myself, I was bouncing between importing the Savage Coast region into a homebrew world of mine and keeping it on Mystara. In one of my fevered imaginings I had replaced the Serpent's Peninsula with Zakhara (Al Qadim). The two great settings built around AD&D's kits right next to each other. Just doing that had filled in great portions of the sea to the south of the coast. Never got further than just mapping this out in pencil.

Another idea came out of trying to "fill in the blanks" of any missing Earth analogue culture. I felt there was room for a Mystara-Netherlands on the Savage Coast . . . I always wanted a third naval power in the area to compete for resources and trade. So in one my mapping exercises I dropped down a large collection of low-lying islands a bit south of the coast of Eusdria and Robrenn. Again, never got around to developing much because another idea for a Greyhawk campaign finally took off with my players and my Savage Coast ideas were put on the shelf.

[Edit] I should mention a third idea I had was to simply enlarge the Savage Baronies. I wanted to enlarge them partly because I wanted those nations to not feel so crowded. I looked at stretching them out southwards. This meant I had to curve the coast along Eusdria and Robrenn to meet up with an extended Savage Baronies coastline. Plus, it had the effect of making the Claw Peninsula really look like a noticeable peninsula!
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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by Andaire » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:30 am

What do you mean, third naval power?
There are Texeiras and Vilaverde, of course.
There is also Renardie, and with their rivalry Bellayne might become a fierce competitor, despite their racial fear of water.
Plus, Hule is not a great naval power, but it has resources it can bring to bear.
In addition, you have orcs from the Dark Jungle, the LB, the city-states, interference from Ierendi and Minrothad and possibly others, and if there is a competition for naval dominance / colonization Yavdlom and Zuyevo could become players.
The seeds are there, so if you want to move the setting in that direction, it can be easily done. A gold (or whatever) rush to Davania could be the spark that ignites this race.
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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by Eric Anondson » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:43 pm

Andaire wrote:What do you mean, third naval power?
I meant a dominating presence, like Texieras and Villaverde, from within the Savage Coast nations. Just because someone puts a boat in the water doesn't make them a "power". I didn't want to pull a faceless nation from the other side of the continent either.
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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by agathokles » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:59 pm

Eric Anondson wrote:
Andaire wrote:What do you mean, third naval power?
I meant a dominating presence, like Texieras and Villaverde, from within the Savage Coast nations. Just because someone puts a boat in the water doesn't make them a "power". I didn't want to pull a faceless nation from the other side of the continent either.
Hojah is definitely a naval power on its own, though its range of action is more limited than that of Vilaverde or Texeiras (i.e., it's not a colonial power).
Renardie, OTOH, is a power in western SC because Texeiras and Vilaverde have to divide their forces between the Gulf of Hule, where they face the constant threat of Hule, and the western SC. This allowed Renardie to establish the colony of Preuve.

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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by Cthulhudrew » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:28 pm

Yavdlom could be considered as a naval power, if one with interests a bit further aflung than the Gulf of Hule region per se. IIRC, their navy is mentioned somewhere in CoM (I want to say that Nyanga was a navy officer, but I may be misremembering). I know that in the Almanacs we did a spin on Bard's tale of Othello, and I believe the Othello character was a naval commander.
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Re: Filling the Western Sea

Post by Eric Anondson » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:33 pm

agathokles wrote:Hojah is definitely a naval power on its own, though its range of action is more limited than that of Vilaverde or Texeiras (i.e., it's not a colonial power).
True, but as I looked at it Hojah was more limited to its near vicinity and didn't seem so much an exploratory/colonial power . . . which was part of my own goal, a military/colonial power. Plus, I was keen on adding greater geographical interest to the map along the coastline (an island nation). So at the time of my brainstorm, those two ideas were solved by inserting a Dutch colonial analogue in the region. It was just an idea that never got better developed, but one reason I felt freer to mold the setting was that I was likely going in cut-n-paste the Savage Coast into a homebrew world of mine that I had already cut-n-pasted select parts of the Known World (as well as other concepts from other settings) onto my own drawn map.
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