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1E - Lich in Ravenloft - Phylactery on Prime

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:49 pm
by TheYeti1775
Ok here is a question for the Hive Mind.

We have a Lich, his Phylactery is on the Prime Material Plane for our purposes.

Lich is transported to Ravenloft, Phylactery still on the Prime.

Lich is beaten within Ravenloft (i.e. destroyed).

Option 1: The Lich reforms in the Prime Material Plane outside of Ravenloft.
Option 2: The Lich reforms in Ravenloft on the border of the Domain they are in.
Option 3: The Lich is destroyed forever.
Option 4: Something else entirely.

This is a question we ran into last night. We had to come up with some stuff on the fly for it all. Whereas later editions 3e and later gave a timeline and rules to the Lich's reformation, BECMI/1E/2E did not. Yes we pulled all the rulebooks out last night to get a good feel for it and saw nothing truly covering the scenario before us. We don't mind using different editions to solve an issue like this but our base game is 1E with full UA.

The Lich did battle with the Darklord of that Domain. This was out of character sight so DM & I were trying to figure out the resulting effects.
On Thursday's the DM and I basically run the game as a form of World Shaping for when the full group plays in his Campaigns' on Wednesday's. So think of Thursday as HIGH FANTASY HIGH MAGIC, Wednesday as Normal Fantasy Magic.

But that is what raised our question before us.
What happens to the Lich should he be destroyed in Ravenloft, with the Domain's Border's CLOSED by the Dark Lord in power there, and his Phylactery is back on the Prime Material World (Norworld in this case).

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Currently the battle was a draw, but the Lich is trapped in that Domain without a way out either to another Domain or back to a Prime.

Re: 1E - Lich in Ravenloft - Phylactery on Prime

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:15 pm
by Zeromaru X
Oh, this question is a good one. I'm awaiting also answers, because this is what happened to Magroth in the Nentir Vale novels (he got destroyed in the Shadowfell -according to 4e Ravenloft is part of/connected to it-, but his phylactery was sound and safe in the mortal world).

Re: 1E - Lich in Ravenloft - Phylactery on Prime

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:44 pm
by Big Mac
I went for something else.

I think that the lich should be trapped in Ravenloft, but there should be some effect from the phylactery being gone.

Perhaps they should come back as some sort of echo of their living self, with no memory that they are a lich, and live out a seemingly mortal life only to vanish and reform as a lich, should they ever find their way out of Ravenloft.

However, that's not from any knowledge of 1e rules (or Ravenloft). That's just an idea for making something fun happen.

Re: 1E - Lich in Ravenloft - Phylactery on Prime

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:53 pm
by Khedrac
Caveat: this is just me theorycrafting.

I think this depends on how the lich gets to Ravenloft.

If it enters through a portal, then I would think there is a decent chance that it will re-form where its phylactery is outide the demiplane.
If the mists have claimed the lich, then it will find that they also claimed the phylactery and it will reform in the demiplane.
Of course, even if the lich entered voluntarily, the mists may claim the lich anyway and it will find that the phylactery is now in the demiplane, no matter how securely it was stored elsewhere...

Re: 1E - Lich in Ravenloft - Phylactery on Prime

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:18 pm
by ripvanwormer
I agree with Khedrac. Normally, a lich's spirit travels to its phylactery instantly, regardless of where it is in the planes (or it may have been housed there all along). This seems too easy a way to escape Ravenloft, though; if the Dark Powers want a lich to remain in the Demiplane of Dread, they will. It makes sense that the Dark Powers, in that case, can simply transfer the phylactery into Ravenloft as well.

However, if the lich is just visiting Ravenloft in a "weekend in Hell" scenario, like any character, it's possible the Dark Powers don't care if it stays there or not and left its phylactery where it was.

Of the choices in the first post above, though, I prefer option 2: the lich reforms on the border of the domain they're trapped in (in the case of liches who have been trapped by the Dark Powers) or option 1: it returns to the Material Plane (in the case of liches who are just visiting).

Re: 1E - Lich in Ravenloft - Phylactery on Prime

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:26 am
by Arnkel
My understanding would be that either a new phylactery would have been created by the Dark Powers for the Lich on the demiplane or that the original phylactery would have been transported by the mists/dark powers themselves to Ravenloft too. That would be my ruling at least.

Re: 1E - Lich in Ravenloft - Phylactery on Prime

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:23 pm
by apotheot
If a Lich "goes" to Ravenloft, chances are that the Dark Powers brought it there. If that is the case they would not have overlooked the phylactery no matter how well hidden....that doesn't meant that the lich knows where in the domains it is however. Such a scenario could be a perfect torment devised by the Dark Powers for a lich...
If they arrive by some other means, (planeshift, portal or the like) the Dark Powers would at least likely provide a phylactery to the lich when they either notice it (first powers check regardless of success or failure) or when the lich unsuccessfully tries to leave, or is physically destroyed. We know they provided new phylacteries to 'accidental' liches before from the Requiem box set.
The Dark Powers don't really care how you got there, you are theirs now, and no silly loophole like a phylactery on some other plane will let you escape them unless they want you to.
-Apotheot

Re: 1E - Lich in Ravenloft - Phylactery on Prime

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:01 pm
by Angel Tarragon
The mists of Ravenloft become the lichs new phylactery.

Re: 1E - Lich in Ravenloft - Phylactery on Prime

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:45 pm
by genghisdon
discussed on DF

Lich CANNOT go to Ravenloft without phylactery coming as well. If they didn't bring it themselves (maybe even if they did), it goes where the dark powers want it to go.