Winged Folk (Al-Karak-Elam)

Discuss AD&D 1E here.
The Book-House: Find 1st Edition products.

Moderators: Idabrius, Blacky the Blackball

Winged Folk (Al-Karak-Elam)

Postby Havard » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:54 pm

In an older post here on the forum, Blackbat242 mentioned this race:

BlackBat242 wrote:That said, many of us disagreed (and still do) with Gary's viewpoint... hence the Half-Ogre, Half-Dryad, and Al-Karak-Elam* PCs I've run over the years (and the Wemic, etc characters run in games I've played in or DM'ed).


* Presented in Dragon as a wholly separate race, they were converted in 2E to the Elven sub-race of Avariel.




BlackBat242 wrote:Al-Karak-Elam: Dragon #51 (July 1981) & Best of Dragon #3.


I checked out Dragon #51 and noticed that Al-Karak-Elam are known by most other races as Winged Folk. The article introducing them was written by someone called William Lenox.


I find it interesting that Blackbat thinks the Avariel from 2nd Edition were an adaptation of the Winged Folk. Other editions also have similar races, but none are identical to the Al-Karak-Elam. BECMI had the Faenare (PC2). 3E had Raptorans (Races of the Wild).

Has anyone used this race in your 1st Edition game? Do you think allowing permanent flight abilities to a PC would cause some problems for a campaign?

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.
User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
 
Posts: 17218
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Winged Folk (Al-Karak-Elam)

Postby ripvanwormer » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:58 pm

Havard wrote:I find it interesting that Blackbat thinks the Avariel from 2nd Edition were an adaptation of the Winged Folk.


The Complete Book of Elves said so explicitly. "The Avariel originally appeared in DRAGON Magazine, issue #51, as "The Winged Folk." The race has been modified here."

Also, Planes of Conflict included a town in the Beastlands called Al Karak Elam-Jhankal, saying "High above the mist-laden lands of Brux resides the nest-town of the al karak elam, also known to the Clueless as the avariel or winged elves."
ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: Winged Folk (Al-Karak-Elam)

Postby Havard » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:48 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:
Havard wrote:I find it interesting that Blackbat thinks the Avariel from 2nd Edition were an adaptation of the Winged Folk.


The Complete Book of Elves said so explicitly. "The Avariel originally appeared in DRAGON Magazine, issue #51, as "The Winged Folk." The race has been modified here."

Also, Planes of Conflict included a town in the Beastlands called Al Karak Elam-Jhankal, saying "High above the mist-laden lands of Brux resides the nest-town of the al karak elam, also known to the Clueless as the avariel or winged elves."


Cool. That explains it.

I forgot to mention that the Ee'ar of Mystara are also based on the Avariel, so I guess that is yet another race that are derived from the Al Karak Elam :)

Does their presence in 1st edition mean that Al Karak Elam have a natural home in Greyhawk?

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.
User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
 
Posts: 17218
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Winged Folk (Al-Karak-Elam)

Postby ripvanwormer » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:21 am

The winged folk article in Dragon Magazine didn't connect them to Greyhawk, but the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer mentioned "winged folk" in the Lortmil Mountains. I connected their Dragon Magazine history to Oerth in this article: http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php ... le&sid=955
ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: Winged Folk (Al-Karak-Elam)

Postby Havard » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:45 am

ripvanwormer wrote:The winged folk article in Dragon Magazine didn't connect them to Greyhawk, but the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer mentioned "winged folk" in the Lortmil Mountains. I connected their Dragon Magazine history to Oerth in this article: http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php ... le&sid=955


Nice work!

What do you think about my theories about equating the Al-Karak-Elam to the Raptorans from Races of the Wild (3E)? Their appearance is different, but that could be left to the individual DM to decide. At least it would give the Raptorans a bit more history with the setting. Also, the information from Races of the Wild could be used to expand on Raptoran lore.

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.
User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
 
Posts: 17218
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Winged Folk (Al-Karak-Elam)

Postby ripvanwormer » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:58 pm

Raptorans closely resemble Mystara's faenare, and Mystara does a good job making both the faenare and ee'ar distinct races with different roles to play. So it's definitely possible, in principle, to make the raptorans and Winged Folk separate races in the same campaign world. That said, if you prefer to consolidate D&D's proliferation of races, deciding that raptorans and winged folk are the same thing is probably doable. The main difference, besides their physical appearance, is their religions: raptorans have their own pantheon while the avariel share the goddess Aerdrie Faenya with other elves.
ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: Winged Folk (Al-Karak-Elam)

Postby GMWestermeyer » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:16 pm

A very cool rce, I used them somewhat in my campaigns but nothing major. I loved their use of bolos as a weapon.

One of my PCs acquired wings from a magical dream while playing through X2 Castle Amber. He was a 5th level elven wizard. I ended up retiring the PC. This was in high school, when inter-PC wars were common in our group and we all plyed multiple PCs, often all connected to each other in various ways. One of my buddies created a pair of half-ogre brothers who always adventured together, I stole that idea. I decided I would run twin elven brothers, one a mage, one a thief. Many of their early adventures were burglaries round various towns (like the jeweler in the Keep) rather than straight dungeon crawls, so when he grew wings it seemed helpful at first. The other DMs and players quickly made it hell, he stuck out in a crowd. He ended up retiring to Highfolk. (I later had one of Iuz' demons kill him during the GH wars 'off screen' to aid in character development for his twin brother, who became my most successful PC).
GMWestermeyer
Hill Giant
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: Fredericksburg, VA

Re: Winged Folk (Al-Karak-Elam)

Postby Big Mac » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:19 am

ripvanwormer wrote:
Havard wrote:I find it interesting that Blackbat thinks the Avariel from 2nd Edition were an adaptation of the Winged Folk.


The Complete Book of Elves said so explicitly. "The Avariel originally appeared in DRAGON Magazine, issue #51, as "The Winged Folk." The race has been modified here."

Also, Planes of Conflict included a town in the Beastlands called Al Karak Elam-Jhankal, saying "High above the mist-laden lands of Brux resides the nest-town of the al karak elam, also known to the Clueless as the avariel or winged elves."


Would you treat the Al-Karak-Elam as a tribe of Avariel?

Or would you use them as two related races (like Wood Elves and High Elves)? In that case would you use the same stats for both races if you used them together in a game?
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Newsflash!: The Piazza is moving!
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 21484
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: Winged Folk (Al-Karak-Elam)

Postby ripvanwormer » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:56 pm

I consider them to be two names for the same race. They call themselves Al Karak Elam, while other races call them Winged Folk or avariel.
ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
 
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: Winged Folk (Al-Karak-Elam)

Postby genghisdon » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:34 am

Havard wrote:In an older post here on the forum, Blackbat242 mentioned this race:

BlackBat242 wrote:That said, many of us disagreed (and still do) with Gary's viewpoint... hence the Half-Ogre, Half-Dryad, and Al-Karak-Elam* PCs I've run over the years (and the Wemic, etc characters run in games I've played in or DM'ed).


* Presented in Dragon as a wholly separate race, they were converted in 2E to the Elven sub-race of Avariel.




BlackBat242 wrote:Al-Karak-Elam: Dragon #51 (July 1981) & Best of Dragon #3.


I checked out Dragon #51 and noticed that Al-Karak-Elam are known by most other races as Winged Folk. The article introducing them was written by someone called William Lenox.


I find it interesting that Blackbat thinks the Avariel from 2nd Edition were an adaptation of the Winged Folk. Other editions also have similar races, but none are identical to the Al-Karak-Elam. BECMI had the Faenare (PC2). 3E had Raptorans (Races of the Wild).

Has anyone used this race in your 1st Edition game? Do you think allowing permanent flight abilities to a PC would cause some problems for a campaign?

-Havard


I had a couple played in my early 1e years/the 80's

I like the originals best of all those...I quite loathe all the other ones you mention: Winged Folk/Al Karak Elam for me. The winged men of Myrrhn in the young kingdoms/Melnibone (Elric) setting (& games) are also cool! I think that's about it for winged human types for me, although I'm fine with other winged humanoids from D&D or non D&D games (Aaracockra, many
    in Talislantia, etc)

    flying is less an issue in later editions

    flying via wings is WAY, WAY morel limited than people would think or assume
    EX:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX02-O2dB9Q

    I liked the "best class" was illusionist for them, and they were good at most classes (ie playable long term). great multi class options too. The required ability scores are really on the high side...but one can look at that as a major limitation that will keep players from being them very often (unless one is the sort that just gives players whatever stats they want/need, and is thus terrible).

    The real limitation on the winged folk, above & beyond realities most ignored by gamers on winged flight, was claustrophobia. This is pretty much makes them NPC only, unless one plays an outdoor campaign. They are good fun as NPC's/monsters BTW. Having a way to cure insanity (such as a potent psionicist optional class character) is pretty important if they are going into dungeons, as they will fail their save sooner or later.

    Havard wrote:Does their presence in 1st edition mean that Al Karak Elam have a natural home in Greyhawk?

    No
    genghisdon
    Gnoll
     
    Posts: 109
    Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:03 am


    Return to AD&D 1st Edition

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest