High Constitution and Regeneration

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High Constitution and Regeneration

Postby Havard » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:57 am

I was looking at ability score tables again and was reminded of the rule that High Con could give you Regeneration ability in 2nd Edition. This is something that seems to have been dropped in later editions? Was it unique to 2nd Ed? It does provide characters with such high ability scores (20+) a sense of superheroic ability.

Has anyone ever played with characters who gained this ability? I once played a druid who gained a Wis of 25, but I dont recall seeing anyone with a Con stat in this range.

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Re: High Constitution and Regeneration

Postby Khedrac » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:02 pm

This was actually a hang-over from 1st Ed when all the ability scores above 18 (00) gave special abilities (such as high intelligence granting illusion immunites). Most of the thought behind them appeared to be that only deities or legendary PCs would ever get such scores.
When 3rd Ed came round the removed all such ideas as they planned for PC abilities to go over 20 in the course of play. I can't speak for 4th or 5th Ed.
BECM D&D actually barred PCs from stats over 18 (19 stats simply cannot be achieved pre-Immortal play).
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Re: High Constitution and Regeneration

Postby Havard » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:33 pm

Khedrac wrote:This was actually a hang-over from 1st Ed when all the ability scores above 18 (00) gave special abilities (such as high intelligence granting illusion immunites). Most of the thought behind them appeared to be that only deities or legendary PCs would ever get such scores.


Aha, that explains it. I played 2nd Ed long before I ever learned how 1st Ed worked and I remember being puzzled to why Strength seemed to run by different rules than the other ability scores. I did like the tables in 2nd ed going up to 25. Even if they rarely came into play, we studied the tables and dreamt of what our characters would be like if we could ever improve our abilities to that level.


When 3rd Ed came round the removed all such ideas as they planned for PC abilities to go over 20 in the course of play. I can't speak for 4th or 5th Ed.
BECM D&D actually barred PCs from stats over 18 (19 stats simply cannot be achieved pre-Immortal play).


I actually house ruled that BECMI D&D mortal characters can advance to 25 as in AD&D, but using the tables from the Immortal Set. I think the rule that mortals need to stick to max 18 is a little annoying once you have tables for stats going up to 100, but I guess the aim was to keep things simple and keep the Immortal Rules a completely separate thing.

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Re: High Constitution and Regeneration

Postby genghisdon » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:50 pm

death removes a point of con, which keeps it lower in the long term, high level game.

It is already & correctly pointed out that it is a carry over from 1e. It ends in AD&D, and although a high con score is a requirement for certain feats in d20 games, that's it.

I've seen 20 con dwarves & half orcs pretty often in the mid level range, as a counterpoint. 19 as an adjusted base, then a magical point added (typically a book/manual/tome)

21-25 in ANY score is super rare even in high powered games for me; the only real exception due to girdle of giant strength. Ironically, the other stats are FAR less unbalancing in that super human range (19-25)
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Re: High Constitution and Regeneration

Postby Lord Sheriff Takari » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:14 am

the highest natural score one can achieve in 1st/2nd Ed's is a 20 for Intelligence while playing a Gray Elf or a 20 Dex while playing a Drow
the only way to achieve scores higher than 18 <18/00 for STR>
not counting adjustments for Racial characteristics is via Magic <Wish or Limited Wish> or Magical Items <Girdles, Tomes, Rings etc...>

the stats in the PHB are set to 25 so that players can get an understanding for what some monsters can dish out

getting hit by a Storm Giant is going to hurt a lot!

Dragons regularly have INT & WIS into the 20's making them very tough to fool using illusions
and Extra-planar Beings like Demons and Angels also can have exceptional attributes

when 3.x was released and Attribute caps were removed allowing a normal adventurer to exceed 18 even at low level
the entire concept of exceptional Attributes was altered
the addition of Feats only made matters worse for the GM to keep his/her Game balanced outside of using Pre-generated Characters

I cannot provide input regarding 4th & 5th Ed's as I do not own these books or have played in them

if the DM desires to keep your player's stats within the natural range for human or Mortal characters for the 1st &2nd Ed games
keep close tabs on what your players seek for magic items when they are in town
make finding these powerful items part of a major quest requiring the PC's to hunt down some epic menace threatening the realm
something that will keep them busy doing what they should be doing = <having fun playing the game>

we all as DM's have encountered the dreaded Min/Maxer
possibly the second worst type of player next to the Rules Lawyer
seeing their character as nothing more than a set of numbers to be improved rather than an enjoyable escape from reality for a few hours a week
they will not be pleased unless they can find something that raises their attributes to unrealistic levels such that they can be the biggest badass in the group
to the dismay of everyone else since to challenge this one player
the DM must bring out more powerful monsters that the other party members are not yet ready to handle
which can lead to a TPK <Total Party Kill>
not fun for anyone!
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Re: High Constitution and Regeneration

Postby Lord Torath » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:42 am

Dark Sun half-giants could get constitutions of up to 22, and I think dwarves and muls could hit 21. You started regenerating at 20 (max for Dark Sun races without positive Con modifiers). I had several characters with regeneration.
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